May 27, 2018, 01:58:51 PM

Author Topic: Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results  (Read 4899 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2018, 06:51:44 AM »
I know a lot a people who are switching..  You might know too...

Anecdotes aren't data.  The data — i.e., market share — render your anecdotes meaningless.
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Re: Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2018, 06:51:44 AM »

scyrene

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Re: Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2018, 07:35:23 AM »
Still, overall, camera sales continue to drop and will probably keep on dropping as camera phones produce a image good enough for 99% of photographers.
They will also continue to drop until Canon can a) catch up to Sony's full frame mirrorless break-away and b) be more competitive with Sigma's steady stream of Art series lenses.

This is a joke, right?
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scyrene

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Re: Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2018, 07:40:41 AM »
Probably Canon an Nikon are still the best brands in the minds of regular people. But there are a lot of bad reviews concerning Canon's cameras (between 1500-3000$). For professional photographers/videographers 1DX was there for a long time as a perfect hybrid camera. But a big disappointment where 6D2 and 5D4. Maybe even the last mirrorless M50 might be considered "a fail". I know a lot a people who are switching..  You might know too... So maybe the start was slow and the competition still need to perform in the field of their brand's power. These YouTube evangelists might just start changing things. I hope they will. Competition is always good.

 ::) ::) ::)
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BillB

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Re: Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2018, 07:47:10 AM »
So, Sony, between 2016 and 2017 - had an 18% year over year drop in operating revenue to external customers of still and video cameras.  Well, I guess the drop was all in the video cameras, because some people analysts say that the mirrorless full frame market is worth trillions of dollars and will rule the world economy by 2025.

Pretty funny. ;D

But I am surprised by Sony's numbers. Perhaps, like Samsung, they may pull out of the digital camera market by 2020? They should just focus on what they do best: sensor production for the world.
And with the aggressive pricing of the latest A7 models it will be interesting to see what that does to their revenue.

We really don't know whether Sony is making money on their high end cameras when front ends costs are considered.  They have generated a big internet presence for their fullframe ILC's, but how is that translating into camera sales and effect on the bottom line?  At some point, cost management may become a big issue for Sony's camera business, just as it has for other Sony projects over the years. 

BillB

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Re: Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results
« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2018, 07:52:25 AM »
Still, overall, camera sales continue to drop and will probably keep on dropping as camera phones produce a image good enough for 99% of photographers.
They will also continue to drop until Canon can a) catch up to Sony's full frame mirrorless break-away and b) be more competitive with Sigma's steady stream of Art series lenses.

This is a joke, right?

Doubt that it is a joke.  More likely another internet buzzard channeling  DPR-driven cyber reality.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results
« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2018, 08:17:28 AM »
Still, overall, camera sales continue to drop and will probably keep on dropping as camera phones produce a image good enough for 99% of photographers.
They will also continue to drop until Canon can a) catch up to Sony's full frame mirrorless break-away and b) be more competitive with Sigma's steady stream of Art series lenses.

This is a joke, right?

It's the alternate reality that results from one too many punchlines to the head.
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Random Orbits

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Re: Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2018, 09:11:04 AM »
So, Sony, between 2016 and 2017 - had an 18% year over year drop in operating revenue to external customers of still and video cameras.  Well, I guess the drop was all in the video cameras, because some people analysts say that the mirrorless full frame market is worth trillions of dollars and will rule the world economy by 2025.

Pretty funny. ;D

But I am surprised by Sony's numbers. Perhaps, like Samsung, they may pull out of the digital camera market by 2020? They should just focus on what they do best: sensor production for the world.
And with the aggressive pricing of the latest A7 models it will be interesting to see what that does to their revenue.

Didn't Sony publish their AF protocols?  Without it, lens makes (Ziess and others) would not have introduced AF lenses into the ecosystem and Sony early would have had a tough time penetrating the market because of their limited lens ecosystem.  But now, Sony has to compete more on the lens side for performance because they don't have a advantage in AF like Canon and Nikon do.  It might be one reason why they must release a new body every 2 years.

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Re: Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2018, 09:11:04 AM »

sanj

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Re: Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2018, 09:45:28 AM »
I don't understand why Sony does not deserve credit for making full frame mirrorless way ahead of Canon and why can't we agree that lots of people are buying these cameras who would have bought Canon cameras if the Sony did not exist.

It is obvious that Canon is feeling the pressure why else would they be making mirrorless cameras??

It has been pointed out on this forum very strongly by a few that Canon is interested in only making money for the stock holders and not in producing technology that will help the cause of photography.

Adelino

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Re: Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2018, 10:39:55 AM »


It has been pointed out on this forum very strongly by a few that Canon is interested in only making money for the stock holders and not in producing technology that will help the cause of photography.

It's a business not a photography charity. Would you invest in a business where the point of existence was to better any cause? I do contribute to charity but not through investments. Canon, Nikon, Sony would invest in coffee or rockets or beauty products if they had expertise to make money. Remember this article is discussing financial results and whether you like the results or not, Canon are making money in an increasingly difficult and shrinking market.

ethanz

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Re: Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2018, 11:14:12 AM »
Remember this article is discussing financial results and whether you like the results or not, Canon are making money in an increasingly difficult and shrinking market.

That is the important thing. Canon is making money, at an increasing rate, while others apparently are not doing as well.
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ethanz

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Re: Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2018, 11:21:12 AM »
I just got back from a 2 week holiday of tourist destinations in Italy

Saw thousands of Nikon and Canon DSLRs and Mirrorless

Eventually I managed to find a single person with a Sony A7 - the only one of the when holiday

I chatted to the owner - turned out he was a professional who had been "given the camera by Sony to see how I get on with it".  He didn't seem at all convinced and seemed happier with his 1DXmk2

It's only anecdotal evidence but Italy was jammed full of tourists and the totally lack of Sony "in the real world" genuinely shocked me

It seems to me that Canon and Nikon have got plenty of time and momentum on their side at least ...

I was in Israel last week on vacation and saw the same thing. Lots of Canons (mostly lower end), some Nikons (I threw dirt at them), and maybe one Sony. I actually saw another person with a 1dx.
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Talys

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Re: Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2018, 11:31:40 AM »
I know a lot a people who are switching..  You might know too...

Anecdotes aren't data.  The data — i.e., market share — render your anecdotes meaningless.

I know a lot of people who voted for Hillary Clinton.  Yet POTUS is, embarrassingly, of the male gender.

I don't understand why Sony does not deserve credit for making full frame mirrorless way ahead of Canon and why can't we agree that lots of people are buying these cameras who would have bought Canon cameras if the Sony did not exist.

It is obvious that Canon is feeling the pressure why else would they be making mirrorless cameras??

It has been pointed out on this forum very strongly by a few that Canon is interested in only making money for the stock holders and not in producing technology that will help the cause of photography.

Sure, they do.  Sony absolutely deserves credit for pioneering full frame mirrorless cameras.  On the other hand, they deserve criticism for releasing products that are so unfinished that they must release revisions in less than 2 years for flagship cameras.

Canon's 5D, 5D2, 5D3, and 5DIV cameras all seem like pretty substantial leaps from the prior camera and each one feels like a solid, working professional's tool, at it's initial release.

Sony's A7, A7M2, A7M3 all feel like a work in progress.  It feels like you're paying to be an early beta tester, with Mark 3 being the first one that is "almost ready for prime time".

If Canon's first professional full-frame mirrorless product works like a professional's tool, I'd rather buy that, than the 3-4 generations of Sony cameras to get there.  If it's not, I will criticize the Canon models also.  But for people who have extra disposable income and like being a part of the process of "getting there", I'm happy for them.  For me, it would be like buying three to four flagship video cards before I could play my video game smoothly -- no thanks, I'll be patient and wait til stuff is ironed out.

I do get the counter-argument for real hobbyists who love their Sony's: "This is so cool, I'll put up with the bugs, limitations, and caveats."   But for me, every Sony FF MILC up to A7R2 just got in the way of photography; every camera since A9 has been significantly better, and is the first that I would consider worth buying -- but they still feel unfinished. 

I do not agree that people would be just blindly buying Canon cameras if Sony did not make MILCs.  I think Sony is adding to the pie, which is a good thing.  I mean, look: I'm happy with my Canon DSLRs.  They're mature cameras that do everything I want.  I don't need another camera body, and I'm not eager to just spend $2,000 - $3,000 just to have another gadget. 

Canon can keep iterating; it doesn't mean I'll necessarily buy a camera unless one of mine gets damaged or wears out, or unless the new one offers something I really want.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 11:41:33 AM by Talys »

unfocused

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Re: Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2018, 11:35:33 AM »
I don't understand why Sony does not deserve credit for making full frame mirrorless way ahead of Canon and why can't we agree that lots of people are buying these cameras who would have bought Canon cameras if the Sony did not exist.

Your first statement is true and Sony should and does get credit for that.

The second statement is something that no one on this forum has access to the information to know. We simply cannot know if the customers are coming from Canon's base of customers, or from somewhere else. What creates arguments here is that too many people assume that all or most of these customers represent lost sales for Canon, and the objective evidence we have (sales figures, market share, etc.) do not indicate that is the case.

It is also a known fact that full-frame cameras as a whole do not represent the bulk of the DSLR market. Too many people overstate the importance of full frame mirrorless simply because that is what they happen to be interested in.

It is obvious that Canon is feeling the pressure why else would they be making mirrorless cameras??

That's a reasonable assumption, although we do not know for sure.

It has been pointed out on this forum very strongly by a few that Canon is interested in only making money for the stock holders and not in producing technology that will help the cause of photography.

Those who say that have a twisted view of how business works. A company can only make money if it provides goods or services that people want and need. Companies are not charities, but they would be idiots to ignore ignore the demands of the marketplace.

Your statement would be more accurate if it read: It has been pointed out on this forum very strongly by a few that Canon is interested in only making money for the stock holders , so that it can stay in business and earn enough profits to pay its employees and  suppliers and earn a reasonable return for investors, so that investors choose to buy its stock, rather than choose other companies.  and not in Producing technology that will help the cause of photography, is important if there are customers who are willing to pay for that technology at a price that will give the company a reasonable return on its investment, so the company can stay in business and continue to invest in additional technology that will help the cause of photography.

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Re: Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2018, 11:35:33 AM »

rrcphoto

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Re: Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results
« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2018, 11:48:24 AM »
I don't understand why Sony does not deserve credit for making full frame mirrorless way ahead of Canon and why can't we agree that lots of people are buying these cameras who would have bought Canon cameras if the Sony did not exist.

they may have purchased Olympus, fuji or others. usually if you look on DPR, the mirrorless fans have a TON of mirrorless camera bodies from multiple manufacturers.

Also, Sony didn't start full frame mirrorless btw.

sanj

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Re: Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results
« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2018, 12:14:18 PM »
All interesting comments. Thank you

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Re: Canon Releases 2018 Q1 Financial Results
« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2018, 12:14:18 PM »