May 23, 2018, 01:46:49 AM

Author Topic: How to work out magnification ratio for macro?  (Read 1635 times)

Valvebounce

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How to work out magnification ratio for macro?
« on: May 16, 2018, 08:43:24 PM »
Hi Folks.
I have been doing some macro shots and I wondered if anyone knows a simple way to know what magnification a lens and tube combo will give, for example I have a (cheap) tube set, 13mm 21mm and 31mm tubes, if I add each to a 24-105mm lens what magnification will I see.
I don’t really want the answer so much as a formula or a recommendation for an app to calculate this if anyone knows of one?

Cheers, Graham.
7DII+Grip, 1DsIII, 7D+Grip, 40D+Grip, EF 24-105 f4L EF-S 17-85, EF-S 10-22, EF 70-200 f2.8 L IS II, EF 1.4xIII, 2xIII, EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6l IS II, Σ17-70 f2.8-4 C, EF 50mm f1.8, YN600EX-RT, YN-E3-RT, Filters, Remotes, Macro tubes, Tripods, heads etc!

1DsIII, 20D, 24-105, 17-85, Nifty 50 pre owned

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How to work out magnification ratio for macro?
« on: May 16, 2018, 08:43:24 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: How to work out magnification ratio for macro?
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2018, 09:15:27 PM »
https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/macro-extension-tubes-closeup.htm

The wider the focal length, the greater the benefit of tubes.
EOS 1D X, EOS M6, lots of lenses
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AlanF

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Re: How to work out magnification ratio for macro?
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2018, 01:02:50 AM »
https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/macro-extension-tubes-closeup.htm

The wider the focal length, the greater the benefit of tubes.

I think you meant shorter the focal length.
5D IV, 5DS R, 400mm DO II, 1.4xTC III, 2xTC III, EF 1.8 STM,  EF 24-105, 100-400 II, EF-S 15-85, Sigma 150-600mm C, EOS-M5 15-45, f/2 22, 11-22, Samyang 8mm f/2.8 fisheye: sold 7D II, EOS-M, Powershot G3 X,  Sigma 10-20, EF 300/2.8 II, 70-200/4 IS.

Valvebounce

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Re: How to work out magnification ratio for macro?
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2018, 05:42:19 PM »
Hi Neuro.
Thank you for the link, I am now looking through the Canon site to try to find the native magnification of my lenses.

Cheers, Graham.
7DII+Grip, 1DsIII, 7D+Grip, 40D+Grip, EF 24-105 f4L EF-S 17-85, EF-S 10-22, EF 70-200 f2.8 L IS II, EF 1.4xIII, 2xIII, EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6l IS II, Σ17-70 f2.8-4 C, EF 50mm f1.8, YN600EX-RT, YN-E3-RT, Filters, Remotes, Macro tubes, Tripods, heads etc!

1DsIII, 20D, 24-105, 17-85, Nifty 50 pre owned

magarity

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Re: How to work out magnification ratio for macro?
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2018, 06:51:39 PM »
Hi Neuro.
Thank you for the link, I am now looking through the Canon site to try to find the native magnification of my lenses.

Cheers, Graham.
Canon's own site doesn't always list it in an easy to find spot. It's usually easier to look it up on a good vendor's website. Adorama is pretty good about listing max magnification under 'specs' for pretty much all the lenses. Probably B&H too.

neuroanatomist

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Re: How to work out magnification ratio for macro?
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2018, 07:37:22 PM »
Hi Neuro.
Thank you for the link, I am now looking through the Canon site to try to find the native magnification of my lenses.

Cheers, Graham.

It's near the end of the instructions booklet.
EOS 1D X, EOS M6, lots of lenses
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Valvebounce

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Re: How to work out magnification ratio for macro?
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2018, 08:02:57 PM »
Hi magarity.
Thanks for the tip, I managed to find the info for all my lenses on the Canon site except the 24-105 f4L and 50 f1.8 II as these have been superseded / discontinued and I found these on popular review sites! :)
Just as an FYI, the Canon site gives the magnification as well as other data with the 1.4x and 2x installed for lenses compatible with tele converters.
It is bloody difficult to get to the lens spec, use the lenses link in the bottom left Products column of the small print at the very bottom of the page to skip the lens optimiser junk!

Cheers, Graham.

Hi Neuro.
Thank you for the link, I am now looking through the Canon site to try to find the native magnification of my lenses.

Cheers, Graham.
Canon's own site doesn't always list it in an easy to find spot. It's usually easier to look it up on a good vendor's website. Adorama is pretty good about listing max magnification under 'specs' for pretty much all the lenses. Probably B&H too.
7DII+Grip, 1DsIII, 7D+Grip, 40D+Grip, EF 24-105 f4L EF-S 17-85, EF-S 10-22, EF 70-200 f2.8 L IS II, EF 1.4xIII, 2xIII, EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6l IS II, Σ17-70 f2.8-4 C, EF 50mm f1.8, YN600EX-RT, YN-E3-RT, Filters, Remotes, Macro tubes, Tripods, heads etc!

1DsIII, 20D, 24-105, 17-85, Nifty 50 pre owned

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Re: How to work out magnification ratio for macro?
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2018, 08:02:57 PM »

Valvebounce

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Re: How to work out magnification ratio for macro?
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2018, 08:10:54 PM »
Hi Neuro.
Never thought to look there for the lenses that I do have the booklet for, and as some of my lenses are previously enjoyed (ok secondhand  :) ) I do not have the booklets for them, plus it was easier to find this info on the web than to access the booklets in the lens boxes at the back of a cupboard with a ton more stuff in front of them!

Cheers, Graham.

Hi Neuro.
Thank you for the link, I am now looking through the Canon site to try to find the native magnification of my lenses.

Cheers, Graham.

It's near the end of the instructions booklet.
7DII+Grip, 1DsIII, 7D+Grip, 40D+Grip, EF 24-105 f4L EF-S 17-85, EF-S 10-22, EF 70-200 f2.8 L IS II, EF 1.4xIII, 2xIII, EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6l IS II, Σ17-70 f2.8-4 C, EF 50mm f1.8, YN600EX-RT, YN-E3-RT, Filters, Remotes, Macro tubes, Tripods, heads etc!

1DsIII, 20D, 24-105, 17-85, Nifty 50 pre owned

neuroanatomist

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Re: How to work out magnification ratio for macro?
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2018, 08:17:19 PM »
Hi Neuro.
Never thought to look there for the lenses that I do have the booklet for, and as some of my lenses are previously enjoyed (ok secondhand  :) ) I do not have the booklets for them, plus it was easier to find this info on the web than to access the booklets in the lens boxes at the back of a cupboard with a ton more stuff in front of them!

Cheers, Graham.

Hi Neuro.
Thank you for the link, I am now looking through the Canon site to try to find the native magnification of my lenses.

Cheers, Graham.

It's near the end of the instructions booklet.

They are all online as PDFs, linked from the page for each lens – my point was, that's where to find them on the Canon website. Moreover, for the Canon-length extension tubes (12 and 25mm), the instruction booklets give you the actual magnification (which is in many cases more accurate than an online generic calculator), and also give you the working distances (which the calculator does not).
EOS 1D X, EOS M6, lots of lenses
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stevelee

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Re: How to work out magnification ratio for macro?
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2018, 09:31:58 PM »
I bought a 100-400mm II lens this spring. I didn't find an instruction booklet in the package. I was surprised that the most expensive lens I have didn't come with a booklet. Maybe I was so excited that I misplaced some of the stuff in the box, I thought.

I later went to Canon's web site and downloaded the instructions. I'm glad I did, since I had guessed wrong about what some of the gizmos do.

Days later I went back to the coffee table near where I had unboxed the lens and looked under the warranty card, and there was a little folded up tissue like what usually warns you not to use under water, scrub with scouring powder, or take internally. But as I unfolded it, that turned out to be the instructions. Out of curiosity, I will look to see if it gives magnification stats.

Zeidora

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Re: How to work out magnification ratio for macro?
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2018, 10:35:22 PM »
With some WA and UWA lenses, extension rings will put focal plane inside lens!
Re figuring out magnification ranges, photograph a ruler or some other object of known size.
Additional complications arise when working with different sensor sizes, then printing, or even displaying on web on different size displays. That is why in science publications, you hardly ever see magnification indications these days, but rather a scale bar, because magnification always depends on size of capture medium AND size of output medium. For LF there are targets you can put on subject, then measure on ground glass (or camera LCD) the size of the target.
5D2 full spectrum, 5DsR, a bunch of Zeiss (some other) primes, for documentary natural history, macro, and micro.

AlanF

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Re: How to work out magnification ratio for macro?
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2018, 03:02:52 AM »
With some WA and UWA lenses, extension rings will put focal plane inside lens!
Re figuring out magnification ranges, photograph a ruler or some other object of known size.
Additional complications arise when working with different sensor sizes, then printing, or even displaying on web on different size displays. That is why in science publications, you hardly ever see magnification indications these days, but rather a scale bar, because magnification always depends on size of capture medium AND size of output medium. For LF there are targets you can put on subject, then measure on ground glass (or camera LCD) the size of the target.

How does an extension ring put the focal plane inside a lens? I naively thought the ring just moved the lens further away from the sensor.
5D IV, 5DS R, 400mm DO II, 1.4xTC III, 2xTC III, EF 1.8 STM,  EF 24-105, 100-400 II, EF-S 15-85, Sigma 150-600mm C, EOS-M5 15-45, f/2 22, 11-22, Samyang 8mm f/2.8 fisheye: sold 7D II, EOS-M, Powershot G3 X,  Sigma 10-20, EF 300/2.8 II, 70-200/4 IS.

Valvebounce

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Re: How to work out magnification ratio for macro?
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2018, 05:01:34 AM »
Hi Alan.
I have had it happen where with 65mm of stacked extension ring the point of focus got so close I had to remove the hood, I don’t remember which lens it was, I guess some other lens might happen to have the point of focus recede ‘inside the lens’.

Cheers, Graham.

With some WA and UWA lenses, extension rings will put focal plane inside lens!
Re figuring out magnification ranges, photograph a ruler or some other object of known size.
Additional complications arise when working with different sensor sizes, then printing, or even displaying on web on different size displays. That is why in science publications, you hardly ever see magnification indications these days, but rather a scale bar, because magnification always depends on size of capture medium AND size of output medium. For LF there are targets you can put on subject, then measure on ground glass (or camera LCD) the size of the target.

How does an extension ring put the focal plane inside a lens? I naively thought the ring just moved the lens further away from the sensor.
7DII+Grip, 1DsIII, 7D+Grip, 40D+Grip, EF 24-105 f4L EF-S 17-85, EF-S 10-22, EF 70-200 f2.8 L IS II, EF 1.4xIII, 2xIII, EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6l IS II, Σ17-70 f2.8-4 C, EF 50mm f1.8, YN600EX-RT, YN-E3-RT, Filters, Remotes, Macro tubes, Tripods, heads etc!

1DsIII, 20D, 24-105, 17-85, Nifty 50 pre owned

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Re: How to work out magnification ratio for macro?
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2018, 05:01:34 AM »

Zeidora

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Re: How to work out magnification ratio for macro?
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2018, 11:09:29 AM »
With some WA and UWA lenses, extension rings will put focal plane inside lens!
Re figuring out magnification ranges, photograph a ruler or some other object of known size.
Additional complications arise when working with different sensor sizes, then printing, or even displaying on web on different size displays. That is why in science publications, you hardly ever see magnification indications these days, but rather a scale bar, because magnification always depends on size of capture medium AND size of output medium. For LF there are targets you can put on subject, then measure on ground glass (or camera LCD) the size of the target.

How does an extension ring put the focal plane inside a lens? I naively thought the ring just moved the lens further away from the sensor.

Just try it. I think it was the Zeiss 21 mm with 13 mm ring. Most likely it has to do with position of nodal point and focal plane being closer to nodal point than front element.

You can use WA lenses for macro (extension rings, even bellows), but then you reverse them and retrofocus design gives you little bit of clearance between rear element and object.
5D2 full spectrum, 5DsR, a bunch of Zeiss (some other) primes, for documentary natural history, macro, and micro.

AlanF

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Re: How to work out magnification ratio for macro?
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2018, 02:46:25 PM »
It would seem to me that you haven't moved the focal plane to within the lens but you have moved it too far away to focus on the sensor.
5D IV, 5DS R, 400mm DO II, 1.4xTC III, 2xTC III, EF 1.8 STM,  EF 24-105, 100-400 II, EF-S 15-85, Sigma 150-600mm C, EOS-M5 15-45, f/2 22, 11-22, Samyang 8mm f/2.8 fisheye: sold 7D II, EOS-M, Powershot G3 X,  Sigma 10-20, EF 300/2.8 II, 70-200/4 IS.

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Re: How to work out magnification ratio for macro?
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2018, 02:46:25 PM »