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Author Topic: Canon 18-45 f/3.5-5.6 Kit Lens for APS-C Mirrorless Patent  (Read 13402 times)

mkln

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Re: Canon 18-45 f/3.5-5.6 Kit Lens for APS-C Mirrorless Patent
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2012, 12:34:27 PM »
Excuse me for coming off ignorant, but what is with all the hype over mirror-less cameras.  I'm serious, what am I missing?  I get the part of less mechanical, maybe higher shutter speeds (maybe not), but what about the loss of a "real" viewfinder?   

Yes, I know mirror-less have been around on and off for years, but I don't understand what market they're aimed at.  Is this to compete with the P&S market, DSLR, market or its own?  It seems to me they targeted towards the hip, got-to-have-the-lastest, the in-thing, trendy market.

Please, someone enlighten me. ???

mirrorless with large sensor = bring a small 5d2 always with you every day, take pics if you need/want, no "oh god if only I had my dslr with me today look at what pic I could take now" anymore
but also no "oh god the only way I can take pics now is with my phone/shitty small sensor compact" anymore.

the nex 5n + lens weights less than the 5d2 body alone, and is smaller than any canon APS-C+lens combination (probably any APSC dslr system in general).
+ other mirrorless systems are even smaller.

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Re: Canon 18-45 f/3.5-5.6 Kit Lens for APS-C Mirrorless Patent
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2012, 12:34:27 PM »

Rocky

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Re: Canon 18-45 f/3.5-5.6 Kit Lens for APS-C Mirrorless Patent
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2012, 12:39:38 PM »
Mirrorless is great. It is smaller size with lighter weight(hopefully). However, they are  all with slower AF(Except Nikon 1). The following question is something for us to think about:
1. Can we live with slower AF speed?
2. Is the reduction in size of weight really that important?
3. Are we willing to pay a higher price for mirroless than the entry level DSLR.
4. Are we willing to buy a new set of lens to get a smaller size for the lens.
The following points are my ideal mirrorless:
1. keep the good ergoomics of the EOS DSLR. from my point of view, most of the exiting mirrorless are with poor
ergonomics.
2. Thinner body, such that M mount or even Lieca screw mountadapter can be used.
3. Canon should make M ount, Leica screw mount, EF/ EF-s mount for their mirrorless.
4. A new set of lenses for the mirrorless.
5. AF will be as fast as the DSLR.
6. Sensor size will not be smaller than APS-C.

CarebbianTraveler

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Re: Canon 18-45 f/3.5-5.6 Kit Lens for APS-C Mirrorless Patent
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2012, 12:56:16 PM »
My rebel camera with kit zoom is not much heavier than a mirrorless camera, and is already a bit too small for my hands. For me there are two types of cameras: Those who fit in my pocket, and those who don't.
The mirrorlss and the DSLR are both in the second category.
For the first category, I prefer cameras like the Lumix LX3.

mkln

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Re: Canon 18-45 f/3.5-5.6 Kit Lens for APS-C Mirrorless Patent
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2012, 01:13:06 PM »
My rebel camera with kit zoom is not much heavier than a mirrorless camera, and is already a bit too small for my hands. For me there are two types of cameras: Those who fit in my pocket, and those who don't.
The mirrorlss and the DSLR are both in the second category.
For the first category, I prefer cameras like the Lumix LX3.

my old 450d + 50 1.8 wouldn't fit where my nex now fits with spare room.
;)

briansquibb

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Re: Canon 18-45 f/3.5-5.6 Kit Lens for APS-C Mirrorless Patent
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2012, 01:20:37 PM »
, and is already a bit too small for my hands.

I am afraid my hands are too big for the P&S - the series 1 fit me perfectly. I use a 40D as my P&S  ;D

CarebbianTraveler

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Re: Canon 18-45 f/3.5-5.6 Kit Lens for APS-C Mirrorless Patent
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2012, 01:20:57 PM »
My rebel camera with kit zoom is not much heavier than a mirrorless camera, and is already a bit too small for my hands. For me there are two types of cameras: Those who fit in my pocket, and those who don't.
The mirrorlss and the DSLR are both in the second category.
For the first category, I prefer cameras like the Lumix LX3.

my old 450d + 50 1.8 wouldn't fit where my nex now fits with spare room.
;)

Sure not. But the difference is not big enough for me to buy a mirrorless. Especially not because all the EF(-S) lenses I have don't fit.  If I wouldn't have a camera yet, I would probably also choose a NEX.

cm71td

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Some advantages of mirrorless
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2012, 01:22:12 PM »
Excuse me for coming off ignorant, but what is with all the hype over mirror-less cameras.  I'm serious, what am I missing?  I get the part of less mechanical, maybe higher shutter speeds (maybe not), but what about the loss of a "real" viewfinder?   

Please, someone enlighten me. ???

It looks like it will be APS-C which is a great start.  If Canon learned lessons from other manufacturers, this could be very useful.  All of the following are possible with mirrorless:

1. Phase detection Autofocus from the Nikon 1 (some pixels on the image sensor dedicated to phase detection autofocus).  This allows for SLR autofocus speed AND use of the full image sensor for face detection and intelligent metering.  It also allows for fast autofocus during video.
2. Controls designed for DSLR users.  Like the X100 or G1X.
3. Compact size and weight.  Will fit in a coat pocket with a pancake prime.
4. Some sharp pancake primes + EF/EF-S adapter.
5. Fast frame rate like the Nikon 1 (no mirror to move).  This combined with in-camera HDR could be very useful.

Nikon has some great technology in the Nikon 1, but the made a fundamental mistake in their target audience:
The person who says, "I don't want to learn photography", and "I'm happy with the image quality and DOF of a small sensor", is the last person who wants to buy more lenses for a camera.

Nikon would have a big hit if they gave the Nikon 1 controls like an X100, and an APS-C sensor.  Hopefully Canon has learned from Nikon's mistakes.

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Some advantages of mirrorless
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2012, 01:22:12 PM »

mkln

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Re: Some advantages of mirrorless
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2012, 01:29:00 PM »
Excuse me for coming off ignorant, but what is with all the hype over mirror-less cameras.  I'm serious, what am I missing?  I get the part of less mechanical, maybe higher shutter speeds (maybe not), but what about the loss of a "real" viewfinder?   

Please, someone enlighten me. ???

It looks like it will be APS-C which is a great start.  If Canon learned lessons from other manufacturers, this could be very useful.  All of the following are possible with mirrorless:

1. Phase detection Autofocus from the Nikon 1 (some pixels on the image sensor dedicated to phase detection autofocus).  This allows for SLR autofocus speed AND use of the full image sensor for face detection and intelligent metering.  It also allows for fast autofocus during video.
2. Controls designed for DSLR users.  Like the X100 or G1X.
3. Compact size and weight.  Will fit in a coat pocket with a pancake prime.
4. Some sharp pancake primes + EF/EF-S adapter.
5. Fast frame rate like the Nikon 1 (no mirror to move).  This combined with in-camera HDR could be very useful.

Nikon has some great technology in the Nikon 1, but the made a fundamental mistake in their target audience:
The person who says, "I don't want to learn photography", and "I'm happy with the image quality and DOF of a small sensor", is the last person who wants to buy more lenses for a camera.

Nikon would have a big hit if they gave the Nikon 1 controls like an X100, and an APS-C sensor.  Hopefully Canon has learned from Nikon's mistakes.
there's probably some limitation in the phase-detect AF on the nikons.
the small sensor (high DOF) helps to focus faster. but the concept is good. canon should improve on that and build a system with some potential.

CarebbianTraveler

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Re: Canon 18-45 f/3.5-5.6 Kit Lens for APS-C Mirrorless Patent
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2012, 01:36:54 PM »
, and is already a bit too small for my hands.

I am afraid my hands are too big for the P&S - the series 1 fit me perfectly. I use a 40D as my P&S  ;D

I can get around with small cameras, no problem. And for landscape photography, I don't even need a viewfinder. But especially when I'm taking a lot of pictures, I also prefer a normal sized camera as the 5D2. And the weight is definitely not a disadvantage when you're in action. Just for carrying around.

psolberg

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Re: Canon 18-45 f/3.5-5.6 Kit Lens for APS-C Mirrorless Patent
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2012, 01:40:00 PM »
Quote
f/3.5-5.6

meh. boring.

ecka

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Re: Canon 18-45 f/3.5-5.6 Kit Lens for APS-C Mirrorless Patent
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2012, 01:42:19 PM »
 ??? Who defined that mirrorless cameras must be small? I really don't understand that crazy desire to carry such expensive, fragile and dust sensitive equipment in your pockets. Why?
I want a normal comfortable size FF mirrorless with all the dials and buttons. Am I alone?
FF + primes !

JoeBoe19

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Re: Canon 18-45 f/3.5-5.6 Kit Lens for APS-C Mirrorless Patent
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2012, 01:42:29 PM »
they will make mirrorless cameras as long as people will buy them - and people have already begun buying them.

please dont get rid of my viewfinder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mkln

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Re: Canon 18-45 f/3.5-5.6 Kit Lens for APS-C Mirrorless Patent
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2012, 01:54:26 PM »
??? Who defined that mirrorless cameras must be small? I really don't understand that crazy desire to carry such expensive, fragile and dust sensitive equipment in your pockets. Why?
I want a normal comfortable size FF mirrorless with all the dials and buttons. Am I alone?
no you're not.

I'd love a 5dEVIL:
take the 5d2, remove the mirror, put swivel screen, reduce thickness of body, larger but shorter grip (but still, keep the grip), make it compatible with leica mount (just need a shorter distance to sensor, then adapter manufacturers will do their job).

done. not small, but smaller. not light, but lighter. especially if you consider the lenses.
image quality with small lenses that are not woth $10,000? ok, it'll be somewhat lower. but some picture is better than no picture.

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Re: Canon 18-45 f/3.5-5.6 Kit Lens for APS-C Mirrorless Patent
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2012, 01:54:26 PM »

CarebbianTraveler

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Re: Canon 18-45 f/3.5-5.6 Kit Lens for APS-C Mirrorless Patent
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2012, 02:07:11 PM »
I'd love a 5dEVIL:
take the 5d2, remove the mirror, put swivel screen, reduce thickness of body, larger but shorter grip (but still, keep the grip), make it compatible with leica mount (just need a shorter distance to sensor, then adapter manufacturers will do their job).

done. not small, but smaller. not light, but lighter. especially if you consider the lenses.
image quality with small lenses that are not woth $10,000? ok, it'll be somewhat lower. but some picture is better than no picture.

I have something pretty similar from Canon in my hands right now. The A-1, one of the last manual focus canon SLRs. It's much smaller than the 5D and even a rebel, but has a 24x36mm "sensor" size. It also looks much better than the new ones, but the handling is worse due to the smaller size.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 02:18:25 PM by CarebbianTraveler »

kdsand

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Re: Canon 18-45 f/3.5-5.6 Kit Lens for APS-C Mirrorless Patent
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2012, 02:10:36 PM »
As soon as I saw this I thought hmm g1x with nice big sensor ---- mirrorless lens. So now I gotta think there would also be a good sized sensor  behind this glass. If not it would seem a step back for Canon.

60D, t2i, Magic Lantern, Manfrotto, Joby, Domke, SanDisk and excetera excetera

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Re: Canon 18-45 f/3.5-5.6 Kit Lens for APS-C Mirrorless Patent
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2012, 02:10:36 PM »