July 19, 2018, 05:34:35 AM

Author Topic: Updated EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II on the Horizon? [CR1]  (Read 14449 times)

Kit.

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Re: Updated EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II on the Horizon? [CR1]
« Reply #90 on: June 16, 2018, 07:10:44 PM »
I have a Canon EOS 30 (Elan 7E) with Eye Control. Just love it. Works like a charm, even though I am wearing glasses. And this is a comparatively "primitive 20th century implementation". 
I had Elan 2E (or technically "have" - it is still lying somewhere on the shelves). If you were just looking on where you wanted it to focus, eye control would eventually work. If you were checking your framing in the viewfinder, it could jump to the focus point you didn't need. It was much faster and simpler just to use the central AF point and then to recompose.

Don't see why Canon could and can not bring a significantly improved, more intelligent version in their digital cameras.
"Low customer demand".

That was the official Canon position on ECF since at least 2006, and it's unlikely that it has changed by now.

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Re: Updated EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II on the Horizon? [CR1]
« Reply #90 on: June 16, 2018, 07:10:44 PM »

slclick

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Re: Updated EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II on the Horizon? [CR1]
« Reply #91 on: June 16, 2018, 07:16:20 PM »
Sp, rumor has it there is a new 24-70 on the horizon, anyone want to chat about it? /o
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 07:55:00 PM by slclick »
That's it, I'm switching to Rollei

Kit.

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Re: Updated EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II on the Horizon? [CR1]
« Reply #92 on: June 16, 2018, 07:28:57 PM »
Sp, rumor has it there is a new 24-70 on the horizon, anyone want to chat about it? /s
As Canon moves its most popular lenses to fully automated assembly lines, it's highly likely that it will require some changes in the 24-70 design. The lens will likely get new lens coating as well.

fullstop

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Re: Updated EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II on the Horizon? [CR1]
« Reply #93 on: June 17, 2018, 02:20:38 AM »
Don't see why Canon could and can not bring a significantly improved, more intelligent version in their digital cameras.
"Low customer demand".

That was the official Canon position on ECF since at least 2006, and it's unlikely that it has changed by now.

would you have link/s to such statement/s by Canon/officials? i have not seen any mentioning of ECF. interestingly, no journalists/bloggers/interviewers seem to be asking canon execs about it and insist on a meaningful answer. or they are "not allowed" to. but that thought of course falls under conspiracy theory to any Canapologist. :-)

Kit.

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Re: Updated EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II on the Horizon? [CR1]
« Reply #94 on: June 17, 2018, 06:41:03 AM »
would you have link/s to such statement/s by Canon/officials? i have not seen any mentioning of ECF. interestingly,
This one was probably the most recent:
http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0912/tech-tips.html

Anyway, all the critical patents on it would have already expired by now, so your conspiration theory needs to include all other camera manufacturers as well.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Updated EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II on the Horizon? [CR1]
« Reply #95 on: June 17, 2018, 07:26:57 AM »
Don't see why Canon could and can not bring a significantly improved, more intelligent version in their digital cameras.
"Low customer demand".

That was the official Canon position on ECF since at least 2006, and it's unlikely that it has changed by now.

would you have link/s to such statement/s by Canon/officials? i have not seen any mentioning of ECF. interestingly, no journalists/bloggers/interviewers seem to be asking canon execs about it and insist on a meaningful answer. or they are "not allowed" to. but that thought of course falls under conspiracy theory to any Canapologist. :-)

You can Canowhine about ECF until you're blue in the face, for all the good it'll do. No one else is asking because, unlike you, they understand reality.  Here's something for you to put in your conspiracy theory pipe and smoke...

Quote from: Chuck Westfall
I have stated numerous times on the Web and at least twice in Tech Tips that it is obvious by now that the omission of ECF in EOS Digital SLRs is a marketing decision, not a technical issue. We get user requests for ECF from time to time, but to be blunt, customer demand so far has been insufficient to justify adding this feature. I'll never say never, but don't hold your breath on this one.

As usual, you have no clue about the needs/wants of the market in general, but yet you continually ASSume that your personal wants are representative of the market as a whole. Typical Canowhiner behavior.
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fullstop

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Re: Updated EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II on the Horizon? [CR1]
« Reply #96 on: June 17, 2018, 10:11:43 AM »
thx for the link/quotes. Had not seen Chuck's response on the matter.

I know it won't surprise you, but  I don't believe "lack of demand" was the true reason for "no more ECF in ANY digital Canon EOS". 

And if all relevant patents have expired, here's hoping Sony (or Nikon) will pick it up then in (some of) their future mirrorless FF cameras.  :)
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 10:13:44 AM by fullstop »

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Re: Updated EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II on the Horizon? [CR1]
« Reply #96 on: June 17, 2018, 10:11:43 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Updated EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II on the Horizon? [CR1]
« Reply #97 on: June 17, 2018, 11:04:49 AM »
I know it won't surprise you, but  I don't believe "lack of demand" was the true reason for "no more ECF in ANY digital Canon EOS". 

Of course you don't.  Chuck was just a big liar, and you know more about Canon's internal decision-making than Canon themselves.

 ::) ::) ::)
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CanonFanBoy

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Re: Updated EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II on the Horizon? [CR1]
« Reply #98 on: June 17, 2018, 12:06:46 PM »
thx for the link/quotes. Had not seen Chuck's response on the matter.

I know it won't surprise you, but  I don't believe "lack of demand" was the true reason for "no more ECF in ANY digital Canon EOS". 

What is the "real reason" then?

I'm wondering aloud what Alex Jones would have to say about this.
5D Mark III, Canon EF 24-70 F/2.8L II, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 35 f/1.4L II, 135 f/2L, Streaklight 360ws, Flashpoint XPLOR 600PRO, 36x m42 screw mount lenses adapted to my DSLR. Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark II, Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

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Re: Updated EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II on the Horizon? [CR1]
« Reply #99 on: June 17, 2018, 01:10:06 PM »
Read what Chuck said.
btw.: he was as kind, nice and honest a person as there is. Of course professionally he served as marketing representative for Canon and in that capacity he could not always tell "the whole truth". But he definitely did not lie.

Reasons:
1) "low demand": if not so many bought ECF enabled Elan 7E vs. non-enabled Elan 7 the reason may simply have been: "price differential too high", not lack of demand for the feature per se 
2) "people did not use it" = implementation was not good enough back then
3) "complexity high + memory-intensive" = cost reasons (for Canon)
4) and Elan 7NE was introduced in April 2014. EOS 10D was already on the market, too more forward-thinking enthusiasts it was clear, that digital SLRs had arrived. Not much interest left to buy film SLRs.
https://global.canon/en/c-museum/product/film245.html
 
are some of my thoughts on the matter. pure "conjecture" of course.  ;D


http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0912/tech-tips.html
Quote
Q: How likely is it that Canon would respond if lots of EOS-1D(s), 7D & 5D users really supported the re-introduction of Eye Controlled Focus? Do you know the story behind its demise?

A: Eye Controlled Focus in future Canon products cannot be ruled out, but there is no evidence to support the notion that it will reappear anytime soon. In the meantime, Canon will continue to study the market and gauge the interests of its customers in all sorts of camera features including ECF.

Similarly, I can't provide details on why the feature was discontinued after the EOS Elan 7NE. But I can tell you that it was more advanced in that camera than any of its predecessors. By the time the Elan 7NE came around, ECF supported vertical as well as horizontal camera orientations; it was much faster than before, and it had the "self-teaching" function that allowed as many as 20 individual calibrations per user for horizontal and vertical orientations according to variations in light levels, for up to three users.

From that description, it's fair to say that the implementation of ECF had become rather complex and memory-intensive, and Canon had received reports indicating that many customers were not using it for various reasons such as:
Their eyes did not move normally so the feature didn't work for them;
Their eyeglass lenses were too thick or they habitually wore sunglasses, so the camera couldn't detect their eye movement;
They didn't know it was necessary to recalibrate the system for each and every light level and/or camera orientation, so they couldn't understand why the system was only working every once in a while for them.
Finally, sales figures indicated that the majority of customers weren't willing to pay for ECF if they could buy the same camera, as in Elan 7N, without ECF for less. Considering all the obstacles, it's not too surprising to me that Canon eventually decided to drop the feature. But again, if you think ECF is worthwhile, then by all means make your wishes known. I am happy to pass them along, and you can also contact Canon's Customer Support Centers (e-Mail: carecenter@cits.canon.com) to let them know as well.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 01:19:24 PM by fullstop »

CanonFanBoy

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Re: Updated EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II on the Horizon? [CR1]
« Reply #100 on: June 17, 2018, 06:52:11 PM »
Read what Chuck said.
btw.: he was as kind, nice and honest a person as there is. Of course professionally he served as marketing representative for Canon and in that capacity he could not always tell "the whole truth". But he definitely did not lie.

Reasons:
1) "low demand": if not so many bought ECF enabled Elan 7E vs. non-enabled Elan 7 the reason may simply have been: "price differential too high", not lack of demand for the feature per se 
2) "people did not use it" = implementation was not good enough back then
3) "complexity high + memory-intensive" = cost reasons (for Canon)
4) and Elan 7NE was introduced in April 2014. EOS 10D was already on the market, too more forward-thinking enthusiasts it was clear, that digital SLRs had arrived. Not much interest left to buy film SLRs.
https://global.canon/en/c-museum/product/film245.html
 
are some of my thoughts on the matter. pure "conjecture" of course.  ;D


http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0912/tech-tips.html
Quote
Q: How likely is it that Canon would respond if lots of EOS-1D(s), 7D & 5D users really supported the re-introduction of Eye Controlled Focus? Do you know the story behind its demise?

A: Eye Controlled Focus in future Canon products cannot be ruled out, but there is no evidence to support the notion that it will reappear anytime soon. In the meantime, Canon will continue to study the market and gauge the interests of its customers in all sorts of camera features including ECF.

Similarly, I can't provide details on why the feature was discontinued after the EOS Elan 7NE. But I can tell you that it was more advanced in that camera than any of its predecessors. By the time the Elan 7NE came around, ECF supported vertical as well as horizontal camera orientations; it was much faster than before, and it had the "self-teaching" function that allowed as many as 20 individual calibrations per user for horizontal and vertical orientations according to variations in light levels, for up to three users.

From that description, it's fair to say that the implementation of ECF had become rather complex and memory-intensive, and Canon had received reports indicating that many customers were not using it for various reasons such as:
Their eyes did not move normally so the feature didn't work for them;
Their eyeglass lenses were too thick or they habitually wore sunglasses, so the camera couldn't detect their eye movement;
They didn't know it was necessary to recalibrate the system for each and every light level and/or camera orientation, so they couldn't understand why the system was only working every once in a while for them.
Finally, sales figures indicated that the majority of customers weren't willing to pay for ECF if they could buy the same camera, as in Elan 7N, without ECF for less. Considering all the obstacles, it's not too surprising to me that Canon eventually decided to drop the feature. But again, if you think ECF is worthwhile, then by all means make your wishes known. I am happy to pass them along, and you can also contact Canon's Customer Support Centers (e-Mail: carecenter@cits.canon.com) to let them know as well.

Low demand not the main reason, huh?

1. Low demand.
2. Customers did not use it. (Low demand)
3. Cost to Canon (low sales = higher costs per unit). (Low demand)
4.  Elan 7NE was introduced in April 2014. EOS 10D was already on the market, too more forward-thinking enthusiasts it was clear, that digital SLRs had arrived. Not much interest left to buy film SLRs. = Low demand
5. and Canon had received reports indicating that many customers were not using it for various reasons such as:
Their eyes did not move normally so the feature didn't work for them;
Their eyeglass lenses were too thick or they habitually wore sunglasses, so the camera couldn't detect their eye movement;
They didn't know it was necessary to recalibrate the system for each and every light level and/or camera orientation, so they couldn't understand why the system was only working every once in a while for them.
Finally, sales figures indicated that the majority of customers weren't willing to pay for ECF if they could buy the same camera, as in Elan 7N, without ECF for less. Considering all the obstacles, it's not too surprising to me that Canon eventually decided to drop the feature. = Low demand


Come on, man. From a business perspective low demand is the reason. People just didn't care about it or care for it. It was expensive to Canon because people just did not want it. People didn't want to pay for it.  ::)

But, doubling down when wrong is your specialty. Silly.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 07:11:41 PM by CanonFanBoy »
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fullstop

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Re: Updated EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II on the Horizon? [CR1]
« Reply #101 on: June 18, 2018, 04:55:42 AM »
CFB: maybe you read and try to understand my post first before using the word "silly".

"Low demand" was Canon's interpretation. Interesting thing is, WHY demand appeared to be low to them. Think about it for a minute before posting. :-)

CanonFanBoy

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Re: Updated EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II on the Horizon? [CR1]
« Reply #102 on: June 18, 2018, 03:39:47 PM »
CFB: maybe you read and try to understand my post first before using the word "silly".

"Low demand" was Canon's interpretation. Interesting thing is, WHY demand appeared to be low to them. Think about it for a minute before posting. :-)

LOL! Demand didn't just appear to be low to Canon, it was low. Period. Sillier.
5D Mark III, Canon EF 24-70 F/2.8L II, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 35 f/1.4L II, 135 f/2L, Streaklight 360ws, Flashpoint XPLOR 600PRO, 36x m42 screw mount lenses adapted to my DSLR. Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark II, Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

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Re: Updated EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II on the Horizon? [CR1]
« Reply #102 on: June 18, 2018, 03:39:47 PM »

slclick

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Re: Updated EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II on the Horizon? [CR1]
« Reply #103 on: June 18, 2018, 10:12:53 PM »
I really hate red fonts.
That's it, I'm switching to Rollei

fullstop

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Re: Updated EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II on the Horizon? [CR1]
« Reply #104 on: June 19, 2018, 03:08:58 AM »
I really hate red fonts.

oh, really?



 ;D  ;D  ;D
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 04:07:05 AM by fullstop »

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Re: Updated EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II on the Horizon? [CR1]
« Reply #104 on: June 19, 2018, 03:08:58 AM »