July 15, 2018, 08:46:04 PM

Author Topic: Are These The Next Canon Cameras To Be Announced? [CR1]  (Read 18346 times)

fullstop

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Re: Are These The Next Canon Cameras To Be Announced? [CR1]
« Reply #150 on: June 19, 2018, 10:41:52 AM »
It would probably be best to enjoy using and getting the most out of the gear that you do have

I do.

and possibly working towards upgrades that actually do exist in this reality.

I don't. I boycot them. Until they do. :-)

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Re: Are These The Next Canon Cameras To Be Announced? [CR1]
« Reply #150 on: June 19, 2018, 10:41:52 AM »

Kit.

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Re: Are These The Next Canon Cameras To Be Announced? [CR1]
« Reply #151 on: June 19, 2018, 06:12:42 PM »
That's what I said. Not less than one man-month to adapt the existing tethering implementation code for a new model in the line. Still ~10x cheaper than to develop it from scratch, still not cheap enough to put it into every camera line.

Maybe a lot less than that -- possibly just hours, or even just the addition a few items to static array initialization.  If you want to dig in you might look at the source code for this project (I have not). 

http://digicamcontrol.com/cameras
That's just a Windows PC client.
Yes, but it gives you a clue regarding the API.
If you had a clue about the efforts involved to create a server for such API in hard-realtime environment, you wouldn't try to point me to a Windows PC client.

If you want info from the other perspective, look at the Magic Lantern source and discussion forums -- that'll tell you how much internal similarity there is from one model to the next.  The few times I've looked at ML, most of the discussion is about figuring out how to hook in to the firmware of a new model, not how to get it to work once hooked.
For which model exactly did Magic Lantern implement tethering that was absent in the stock firmware?

And Magic Lantern gives you no guarantee at all that what they do won't break things.

Anyway, you made an off-the-cuff guess as to how much time/effort would be involved, and I pointed you to resources that would give you more information about what would really be involved.
They give zero information on the topic.

unfocused

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Re: Are These The Next Canon Cameras To Be Announced? [CR1]
« Reply #152 on: June 19, 2018, 06:37:05 PM »
That's what I said. Not less than one man-month to adapt the existing tethering implementation code for a new model in the line. Still ~10x cheaper than to develop it from scratch, still not cheap enough to put it into every camera line.

Maybe a lot less than that -- possibly just hours, or even just the addition a few items to static array initialization.  If you want to dig in you might look at the source code for this project (I have not). 

http://digicamcontrol.com/cameras
That's just a Windows PC client.
Yes, but it gives you a clue regarding the API.
If you had a clue about the efforts involved to create a server for such API in hard-realtime environment, you wouldn't try to point me to a Windows PC client.

If you want info from the other perspective, look at the Magic Lantern source and discussion forums -- that'll tell you how much internal similarity there is from one model to the next.  The few times I've looked at ML, most of the discussion is about figuring out how to hook in to the firmware of a new model, not how to get it to work once hooked.
For which model exactly did Magic Lantern implement tethering that was absent in the stock firmware?

And Magic Lantern gives you no guarantee at all that what they do won't break things.

Anyway, you made an off-the-cuff guess as to how much time/effort would be involved, and I pointed you to resources that would give you more information about what would really be involved.
They give zero information on the topic.

You are kind of rude considering I think he was trying to be helpful.

Orangutan

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Re: Are These The Next Canon Cameras To Be Announced? [CR1]
« Reply #153 on: June 19, 2018, 10:30:25 PM »
snip
For which model exactly did Magic Lantern implement tethering that was absent in the stock firmware
That's not the question.  The question is how hard is it for Canon to make the change, given that they have all the engineering specs and source code.  That Windows client and ML firmware might give you important indirect information.  I have not looked at their code, but I pointed them out to you because you seemed interested.  If you look at their source code you might well find the clues you're looking for.  Until then, your claims are just speculation.

My speculation is that they choose their CPUs in part to make model changes easier and more robust.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIGIC

stevelee

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Re: Are These The Next Canon Cameras To Be Announced? [CR1]
« Reply #154 on: June 20, 2018, 12:18:53 AM »
Of these three cameras, the one that might interest me is the G7X Mark III. If it is enough of an upgrade for the money, it is likely the next camera I will buy, probably before my next big trip, whenever that might be.

I've been extremely pleased with the G7X II and am in no rush to upgrade it, so if and when for an upgrade can be decided when I have much more information.

I have no need or interest in a new DSLR or mirrorless body any time in the foreseeable future. The new 100-400mm is my new toy, and if I need anything longer, I'll get a 1.4X for it, but don't anticipate that. My next lens purchase will be the 16mm-35mm f/4, since I don't have anything wider for FF than 24mm.

rrcphoto

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Re: Are These The Next Canon Cameras To Be Announced? [CR1]
« Reply #155 on: June 20, 2018, 12:34:07 PM »
everyone has gone crazy over the M5 Mark II and no one has really commented on the fact that this will be Canon's first fully made 1" sensor camera.

Canon making competitive 1" sensors with DPAF could change the narrative for those cameras especially if they manage to keep the costs low especially with Sony's now costing $1200 a pop for a RX100



rrcphoto

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Re: Are These The Next Canon Cameras To Be Announced? [CR1]
« Reply #156 on: June 21, 2018, 03:46:25 PM »
But tethering is not "just a feature in menu". It's an extensive modification of all software parts responsible for hard realtime performance of a camera (which by itself is hard to write).

Without knowledge of Canon source code, I would guesstimate it for at least one man-year to write (and test) for one camera type, and at least one man-month to update it for a new camera model.

But I'm just a programmer, not a project manager, so my estimate is better to be multiplied by Pi.
As a programmer then, you should know that much of that development is valid for a number of different cameras, lowering the cost per product. While each camera is different, they share enough code to spread those costs around. And incremental features cost far less.
That's what I said. Not less than one man-month to adapt the existing tethering implementation code for a new model in the line. Still ~10x cheaper than to develop it from scratch, still not cheap enough to put it into every camera line.

ML did a review of the tethering problem when the M came out. I can't find the thread anymore or the comment, but I recall it being a problem with the legacy code in EOS Utility, that it was built for a 30 fps framerate, and the M's were faster than that in liveview (60 i believe, with the M5 up to 120 fps), and there was a huge complexity for the change, so Canon simply to get the camera out elected to disable tethering in the camera itself was their prognosis.

also at the time ML stated that they would NEVER re-enable a feature that Canon disabled.

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Re: Are These The Next Canon Cameras To Be Announced? [CR1]
« Reply #156 on: June 21, 2018, 03:46:25 PM »

fullstop

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Re: Are These The Next Canon Cameras To Be Announced? [CR1]
« Reply #157 on: June 21, 2018, 04:23:08 PM »
yep. Typical ML. No balls. One of the reasons i never cared about ML and don't respect them really. I like the Yongnuos, Meikes and Samyangs much better in that respect. They don't give a damn if some Canon lawyer sends a letter or not.

BillB

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Re: Are These The Next Canon Cameras To Be Announced? [CR1]
« Reply #158 on: June 21, 2018, 04:36:16 PM »
yep. Typical ML. No balls. One of the reasons i never cared about ML and don't respect them really. I like the Yongnuos, Meikes and Samyangs much better in that respect. They don't give a damn if some Canon lawyer sends a letter or not.

And you know all this how?

fullstop

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Re: Are These The Next Canon Cameras To Be Announced? [CR1]
« Reply #159 on: June 21, 2018, 04:56:28 PM »
it is evident. :-)

ML don't touch this [!D eeries cams for example], ML don't do that [re-enabling certain functions when nerfed by Canon], ML knee jerks as soon as Canon all but bats an eye.

BillB

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Re: Are These The Next Canon Cameras To Be Announced? [CR1]
« Reply #160 on: June 21, 2018, 05:11:04 PM »
it is evident. :-)

ML don't touch this [!D eeries cams for example], ML don't do that [re-enabling certain functions when nerfed by Canon], ML knee jerks as soon as Canon all but bats an eye.

Thank you.  And the part about how the other guys don't care whether a Canon lawyer sends them a letter or not?

fullstop

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Re: Are These The Next Canon Cameras To Be Announced? [CR1]
« Reply #161 on: June 21, 2018, 06:41:05 PM »
i very much doubt Yongnuo, Meike or Samyang got official licenses for IP from Canon. :-)
While I don't work for any of them, I'd be very surprised if they not all have gotten some "love letters" from Canon legal department/lawyers on various occasions. Not on Valentine's day, but following their product announcements. :-)

BillB

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Re: Are These The Next Canon Cameras To Be Announced? [CR1]
« Reply #162 on: June 21, 2018, 06:54:33 PM »
i very much doubt Yongnuo, Meike or Samyang got official licenses for IP from Canon. :-)
While I don't work for any of them, I'd be very surprised if they not all have gotten some "love letters" from Canon legal department/lawyers on various occasions. Not on Valentine's day, but following their product announcements. :-)

Thanks for clearing that up.  Fantasy letters.

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Re: Are These The Next Canon Cameras To Be Announced? [CR1]
« Reply #162 on: June 21, 2018, 06:54:33 PM »