July 16, 2018, 06:59:23 AM

Author Topic: Patent: New EF-S 18-55 With an LCD Display?  (Read 7454 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: Patent: New EF-S 18-55 With an LCD Display?
« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2018, 12:20:53 PM »
Lens LCD display = total Canon fail on all counts.

Yes, as usual...you know more than Canon about lenses, their features, and what millions of people want.  Too bad for you those people ony exist in your imagination, and even more so that history has proven your knowledge isn’t worth the electrons used to transmit it.
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Re: Patent: New EF-S 18-55 With an LCD Display?
« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2018, 12:20:53 PM »

tron

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Re: Patent: New EF-S 18-55 With an LCD Display?
« Reply #46 on: June 22, 2018, 08:48:23 PM »
since you did not care to read, but only post: we were only talking about the (possible) useless LCD info display on the lens barrel. Any other possible improvements were not subject of this thread so far.
Actually the text document of the patent (in Japanese) is about aberration that is adaptively corrected based on the focal distance. It has nothing to do with the LCD screen. All the explanation is about the camera and lens that have this technology built into them. The LCD screen is just an example of showing the focal distance nothing else. There is no mention that this LCD screen is an integral part of this patent/technology. Read it then argue.
Correct! BUT (and this is a very big BUT) the Forum writer(s) themselves chose to use as a title: Patent: New EF-S 18-55 With an LCD Display?

So they intentionally turned the attention to that instead of the patent content. So the topic of this thread is this possibility and not the very welcome IQ enhancements.

So, when someone looks deeper into the facts than the surface, that's an excuse to insult them?  Actually, it's not surprising coming from someone who's shown a complete disregard for facts and a penchant for bigotry.

The 'gimmick' of an LCD display on the lens aside, it's good to see Canon working on IQ improvements for kit lenses.  For those who don't believe they would do so, I'd suggest comparing the EF-S 55-250mm IS II to the newer IS STM version.
I personally did not insult anyone! But I cannot oversee the fact that the important issue here is more the IQ improvements (especially if they will happen even in low end lenses) rather than the distance meter. And If I recall correctly someone has insulted for exactly the opposite: bhf3737 saying: "
If you think that managing aberration in a rather dark lens is a GIMMICK, that is fine! ".
Of course that is a fine improvement and the discussed GIMMICK what was mentioned in the thread title

So I decided to comment too.
But - regarding distance - If they really care so much about distance they could reintroduce the DOF functionality of EOS 600/630 possibly by taking into account the MPixel count of the camera and the circle of confusion. That would be an improvement!

neuroanatomist

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Re: Patent: New EF-S 18-55 With an LCD Display?
« Reply #47 on: June 22, 2018, 08:58:42 PM »
I personally did not insult anyone!

No, you didn't.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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Don Haines

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Re: Patent: New EF-S 18-55 With an LCD Display?
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2018, 10:19:26 PM »
Oh for crying out loud......

The camera and the lens both know what the focus distance is.....

We are faced with three options on the lens......

1) no distance indicator....


2) a mechanical scale which displays the gross distance, with very little precision....

3) a digital display which shows the distance very accurately.....

So, Canon chose the most accurate option and people are complaining? This is a non-issue which says more about the people than the lens.....
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fullstop

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Re: Patent: New EF-S 18-55 With an LCD Display?
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2018, 04:06:21 AM »
@don
I am criticizing such a LCD lens barrel display on numerous counts and levels.

1. It is "information in the wrong place"
Shooting-relevant information should generally and always be presented in the viewfinder or on the camera display (LiveView mode, mirrorless), having to look at the lens barrel is a distraction. Even when setting up for landscape shots - camera on tripod - deciding on distance, DOF, aperture and all other capture parameters, it would be  far more helpful to have all information presented on one display. On analogue cameras this was physically not possible. On digital/electronic cameras it is: on the big main LCD of the camera and/or in the viewfinder - as overlay/bottom line info in OVFs, and even simpler in EVFs. 

2. If Canon however, still believes there are a few people who prefer to look up distance/DOF info on lens barrels, then please make it "worthwhile" - on the right lenses and in a really good implementation

a) On a cheap consumer kit zoom lens, a few etched markings should be more than sufficient, since any serious photographer concerned about distance/DOF is not very likely to use an EF-S 18-55 for that task. Maybe not for Canapologists though who may be "always using the distance scales on their kit zoom lenses,for every single shot".  ;) :D

b) If Canon despite all of this still wants to put an LCD display on a lens barrel, then please make it at least "worthwhile" and "decent" ...

Zeiss Batis LCD is also "superfluous", but at least it is "nicely done and intuitive" - if you ever use it. It clearly shows DOF for currently selected focus distance and current aperture setting in one clean image.


It is an example for how a digital display can be so much superior to hard-coded analogue etchings on a lens barrel. It is just the display is in the wrong place. It should be shown that way in VF or on camera display, along with all other shot-relevant information like ISO, Av, Tv, EV +/-, flash settings & status etc.   

In stark contrast to this implementation, STUPID Canon has just grafted the hard-coded lens barrel markings 1:1 onto an LCD display on the EF 70-300 IS II. Look at this. Which information display would you prefer?


Canon added an even more unneeded mode button to access additional display modes that do not show any distance/DOF information at all, but tell the dumb user, what focal length he/she selected on the zoom ring. And when lens is mounted on an APS-C camera, what FF equivalent focal length that would be. WOW. Just WOW. As if a single user of an EF 70-300  or an EFG-S 18-55 would ever care about that. I look through the viewfinder/LCD display and turn the zoomring until I get the desired framing for the shot. It is totally irrelevant to me whether i have currently selected precisely 149mm or 168mm or 199mm focal length. I will only curse my luck, when i find out that i am focal length limited on the long or short end of the zoom I have in my camera at the moment. :-)

But ofc it is only me and all Canapologists certainly do need a lens LCD display on their kit lenses showing "FF equivalent focal length selected".  :-)

« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 06:05:17 AM by fullstop »

fullstop

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Re: Patent: New EF-S 18-55 With an LCD Display?
« Reply #50 on: June 23, 2018, 06:06:32 AM »
Lens LCD display = total Canon fail on all counts.

Yes, as usual...you know more than Canon about lenses, their features,

No. But I know what i see. And i don't like what I see on a Canon lens LCD.  :)

fullstop

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Re: Patent: New EF-S 18-55 With an LCD Display?
« Reply #51 on: June 23, 2018, 06:22:06 AM »
But - regarding distance - If they really care so much about distance they could reintroduce the DOF functionality of EOS 600/630 possibly by taking into account the MPixel count of the camera and the circle of confusion. That would be an improvement!

+100 ... motion seconded! But most posters here don't even have the slightest clue what we are referring to. :-)

I would even go further: I would LOVE to have a fully functional DISTANCE-related trigger trap function on [some or all] Canon EOS cameras, similar to what is implemented on some of the higher-end Nikon DSLRs. 

But in Canon EOS firmware, *selected focus distance information* is treated like a red-headed stepchild anyways. Some (older) EF shards [eg 50/1.4!] cannot even report the set focus distance back to camera. And even with the newest, most expensive and "advanced" CPU'd/chipped EF, EF-S, EF-M lenses and the most expensive and "advanced" Canon cameras focus distance information is NOT SHOWN in image EXIF data.

And it is definitely NOT displayed in the Canon-universe anywhere before/during image capture - except on the EF 70-300 IS II lens display.  In an extremely crude, unintuitive, truly "Canon-esque" way. :-)

Only Canon can. Do it like that. 

So put them 1970s style lens barrel LCD displays on all Mark II, III, IV, V, iterated Canon lenses. ;D   ;D  ;D

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Re: Patent: New EF-S 18-55 With an LCD Display?
« Reply #51 on: June 23, 2018, 06:22:06 AM »

Don Haines

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Re: Patent: New EF-S 18-55 With an LCD Display?
« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2018, 08:32:48 AM »
@don
I am criticizing such a LCD lens barrel display on numerous counts and levels.

1. It is "information in the wrong place"
Shooting-relevant information should generally and always be presented in the viewfinder or on the camera display (LiveView mode, mirrorless), having to look at the lens barrel is a distraction. Even when setting up for landscape shots - camera on tripod - deciding on distance, DOF, aperture and all other capture parameters, it would be  far more helpful to have all information presented on one display. On analogue cameras this was physically not possible. On digital/electronic cameras it is: on the big main LCD of the camera and/or in the viewfinder - as overlay/bottom line info in OVFs, and even simpler in EVFs. 

2. If Canon however, still believes there are a few people who prefer to look up distance/DOF info on lens barrels, then please make it "worthwhile" - on the right lenses and in a really good implementation

a) On a cheap consumer kit zoom lens, a few etched markings should be more than sufficient, since any serious photographer concerned about distance/DOF is not very likely to use an EF-S 18-55 for that task. Maybe not for Canapologists though who may be "always using the distance scales on their kit zoom lenses,for every single shot".  ;) :D

b) If Canon despite all of this still wants to put an LCD display on a lens barrel, then please make it at least "worthwhile" and "decent" ...

Zeiss Batis LCD is also "superfluous", but at least it is "nicely done and intuitive" - if you ever use it. It clearly shows DOF for currently selected focus distance and current aperture setting in one clean image.


It is an example for how a digital display can be so much superior to hard-coded analogue etchings on a lens barrel. It is just the display is in the wrong place. It should be shown that way in VF or on camera display, along with all other shot-relevant information like ISO, Av, Tv, EV +/-, flash settings & status etc.   

In stark contrast to this implementation, STUPID Canon has just grafted the hard-coded lens barrel markings 1:1 onto an LCD display on the EF 70-300 IS II. Look at this. Which information display would you prefer?


Canon added an even more unneeded mode button to access additional display modes that do not show any distance/DOF information at all, but tell the dumb user, what focal length he/she selected on the zoom ring. And when lens is mounted on an APS-C camera, what FF equivalent focal length that would be. WOW. Just WOW. As if a single user of an EF 70-300  or an EFG-S 18-55 would ever care about that. I look through the viewfinder/LCD display and turn the zoomring until I get the desired framing for the shot. It is totally irrelevant to me whether i have currently selected precisely 149mm or 168mm or 199mm focal length. I will only curse my luck, when i find out that i am focal length limited on the long or short end of the zoom I have in my camera at the moment. :-)

But ofc it is only me and all Canapologists certainly do need a lens LCD display on their kit lenses showing "FF equivalent focal length selected".  :-)



I tend to agree with you. If they do put on a digital display, make it worthwhile! Show the real distance, like instead of a representation of the old analog scale, show the real digital number..... and show the DOF info as well....

I hope they have learned from others and from before and this time, do it right!
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Re: Patent: New EF-S 18-55 With an LCD Display?
« Reply #53 on: June 23, 2018, 09:54:13 AM »
again, I would like to have this kind of distance and DOF information in some shooting situations. But NOT on the lens barrel, but in the viewfinder or on camera rear display [liveview / mirrorless].

Zeiss Batis OLED Display

Distance Info "far"


Distance Info "near"


https://www.ephotozine.com/article/zeiss-batis-85mm-f-1-8-sonnar-t--review-28399

Canon 1970s LCD dot matrix display on EF 70-300 IS II, launched in 2017!  :P
 




I can already hear the Canapologists here ... "but ... but ... the Canon lens display can also display which direction shake the IS system has discovered and wants to correct for". Yes. Canon can! Indeed! Exactly the type of information I always wanted to know and see on the lens barrel.  LOL



Quote
An electronic display of the focusing distance is quite useful as there is no indication on the lens barrel itself. Also on this display is a depth of field indicator that changes as the lens is zoomed. This latter function is not very useful as only f/8 and f/22 appear and the scale is just too small. The second option is a display of focal length set, but again it is of doubtful relevance as the figures are etched very clearly on the lens barrel, right next to the display. Finally, an indicator can show the amount of shake in two directions, but as we are looking either through the viewfinder or at the back screen, having such a display does not really help at all. If the display were not there, the lens would be no less useful and no less easy to operate.
https://www.ephotozine.com/article/canon-ef-70-300mm-f-4-5-6-is-ii-usm-review-31038

Now, Canapologists, go ahead and tell us, why the Canon implementation is superior, why Canon "knows best what is good for us" and why this cr*p should go on every Canon [kit zoom] lens.  ;D
« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 09:56:54 AM by fullstop »

bhf3737

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Re: Patent: New EF-S 18-55 With an LCD Display?
« Reply #54 on: June 23, 2018, 02:11:31 PM »
... go ahead and tell us, why the Canon implementation is superior ...

Show any other implementation of a lens LCD display by any manufacturer that does all the three below:

1. The distance mode, both feet and meter markings are electronically displayed, together with an interactive depth of field scale, that changes depending of the focal length.
2. The focal length mode shows the numbers printed on the barrel, and it can automatically calculate the equivalency to the 35mm format, when mounted on APS-C/APS-H cameras.
3. The IS mode shows the volume of compensation in both axis, useful to keep the lens steady when shooting low-light scenes.

If you shoot video, you will get it.

The above plus:
4. the "Instant AF" technology (in EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS II USM that has this kind of LCD display); and
5. the "adaptive aberration correction" (that has been the subject of the patent)
if put into a cheap entry level kit lens are worth nothing at all?!

fullstop

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Re: Patent: New EF-S 18-55 With an LCD Display?
« Reply #55 on: June 23, 2018, 02:21:51 PM »
well, there is no Zeiss Batis *zoom* ... so #1 is not comparable (yet). Canon EF 70-300 IS II is only zoom atm with such a lens display. I  cannot see usefulness of case #2 and #3 in any way. Certainly enough to justify a lens barrel display. Distance + DOF info would better be displayed in viewfinder and/or on camera display.

Aglet

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Re: Patent: New EF-S 18-55 With an LCD Display?
« Reply #56 on: July 04, 2018, 02:24:46 AM »
Fuji can provide focus distance in EVF... 
I did not find it to be a useful feature.

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Re: Patent: New EF-S 18-55 With an LCD Display?
« Reply #56 on: July 04, 2018, 02:24:46 AM »