July 16, 2018, 06:59:42 AM

Author Topic: Patent: Soft Focus Lens Designs, Various Focal Lengths  (Read 4582 times)

Canon Rumors

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Patent: Soft Focus Lens Designs, Various Focal Lengths
« on: June 21, 2018, 10:40:53 AM »
Canon has filed a patent spotted by Canon News for a variety of soft focus lenses. The most interesting of the bunch is a 70-200 f/4 full frame lens with a backfocus of 25mm, meaning it’s not an EF mount lens.

35mm f/1.8 full frame EF Canon mount

  • Focal Length 33.75
  • F-Number 1.72
  • Image Height 21.64
  • Total Lens Length 132.93
  • BF 39.14

58mm f/1.4 full frame EF Canon mount

  • Focal Length 57.57
  • F-Number 1.43
  • Image Height 21.64
  • Total Lens Length 160.04
  • BF 40.43

105mm f/2.0 full frame EF Canon mount

  • Focal 103.2
  • F-Number 2.17
  • Image Height 21.64
  • Total Lens Length 123.79
  • BF 42.2

70-200 f/4 full frame BF of 25mm (not EF mount)

  • Focal 72.21 – 194.06
  • F-Number 4.00
  • Image Height: 21.64
  • BF 25.98
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 10:43:48 AM by Canon Rumors »
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Patent: Soft Focus Lens Designs, Various Focal Lengths
« on: June 21, 2018, 10:40:53 AM »

ahsanford

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Re: Patent: Soft Focus Lens Designs, Various Focal Lengths
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2018, 11:22:42 AM »
70-200 f/4 full frame BF of 25mm (not EF mount)

Interesting...  :o

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Haydn1971

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Re: Patent: Soft Focus Lens Designs, Various Focal Lengths
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2018, 11:42:53 AM »
Thinking...

Cheapo non IS 35mm f1.8 in a similar vein to the 50mm f1.8

Hopefully 58mm f1.4 IS in a similar vein to the 35mm f2.0 IS

105mm !    Hmmm, patent filler ?   Or replacement for 100mm non L or maybe a macro ???
Regards, Haydn

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jolyonralph

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Re: Patent: Soft Focus Lens Designs, Various Focal Lengths
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2018, 11:43:57 AM »
Again, most patents don't end up as products.

But I'm curious, who on earth wants a soft focus lens these days?

Unless this means an apodization filter, which I think it could be (the part labelled SP in the diagrams)
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ahsanford

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Re: Patent: Soft Focus Lens Designs, Various Focal Lengths
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2018, 12:04:11 PM »
Again, most patents don't end up as products.

But I'm curious, who on earth wants a soft focus lens these days?

Unless this means an apodization filter, which I think it could be (the part labelled SP in the diagrams)

Canon was tired of leaving all the LensBaby money on the table.   ;D

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KeithBreazeal

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Re: Patent: Soft Focus Lens Designs, Various Focal Lengths
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2018, 12:20:28 PM »
Again, most patents don't end up as products.

But I'm curious, who on earth wants a soft focus lens these days?

Unless this means an apodization filter, which I think it could be (the part labelled SP in the diagrams)

Canon was tired of leaving all the LensBaby money on the table.   ;D

- A

Nailed it!  I'm surprised they aren't producing present versions with insane amounts of flare and aberrations.  Some crazy filters are popular with the younger generation. 
Bad in the day, we used to smear Vaseline on a filter for soft effects.   :P
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timmy_650

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Re: Patent: Soft Focus Lens Designs, Various Focal Lengths
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2018, 12:30:14 PM »
I wonder if it is more for the Asian makets. There was that Casio selfie camera what did great over there.

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Re: Patent: Soft Focus Lens Designs, Various Focal Lengths
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2018, 12:30:14 PM »

jeffa4444

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Re: Patent: Soft Focus Lens Designs, Various Focal Lengths
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2018, 12:55:18 PM »
Again, most patents don't end up as products.

But I'm curious, who on earth wants a soft focus lens these days?

Unless this means an apodization filter, which I think it could be (the part labelled SP in the diagrams)

Canon was tired of leaving all the LensBaby money on the table.   ;D

- A

Nailed it!  I'm surprised they aren't producing present versions with insane amounts of flare and aberrations.  Some crazy filters are popular with the younger generation. 
Bad in the day, we used to smear Vaseline on a filter for soft effects.   :P

I use Lee Filters soft effects filters for portraits sometimes, they don't destroy sharp features like eyes but they do make highlights "glow" and help smooth out skin.

In the movie industry weve seen a huge increase in the use of low contrast or soft fx filters over the last two years because those vast amount of MPs don't make actresses in particular look good.
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ahsanford

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Re: Patent: Soft Focus Lens Designs, Various Focal Lengths
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2018, 12:56:41 PM »
I use Lee Filters soft effects filters for portraits sometimes, they don't destroy sharp features like eyes but they do make highlights "glow" and help smooth out skin.

In the movie industry weve seen a huge increase in the use of low contrast or soft fx filters over the last two years because those vast amount of MPs don't make actresses in particular look good.

Can't you somewhat get that same effect with a Clarity negative slider move?

- A

NancyP

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Re: Patent: Soft Focus Lens Designs, Various Focal Lengths
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2018, 02:02:23 PM »
Yes. I would rather use (and have used on me, since I am "of a certain age") a vintage lens from the 1970s than a Zeiss Otus for women's portraits.

Maximilian

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Re: Patent: Soft Focus Lens Designs, Various Focal Lengths
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2018, 01:44:21 AM »
70-200 f/4 full frame BF of 25mm (not EF mount)

Interesting...  :o
Indeed!

Question (quick search, couldn't find it):
What is the typical BF of EF-M? Thanks.
sometimes you have to close your eyes to see properly.

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Re: Patent: Soft Focus Lens Designs, Various Focal Lengths
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2018, 02:13:32 AM »
not much explanation to the "soft focus" thing? is it
1. an "apodization filter" as implemented in eg the 56/1.2 Fuji lens? https://dpreview.com/articles/4106200256/fujifilm-introduces-xf-56mm-f1-2-r-apd-with-apodization-filter or
2. a new/"updated" appearance of the old "SF" Canon used in their (1987, now discontinued?) EF 135/2.8 SF lens? https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-135mm-f-2.8-with-Softfocus-Lens-Review.aspx or
3. something entirely different?

maybe someone has looked at the patent detail? i dont really want to, just mildly curious. :-)

not convinced at all that this patent will result in actual products.

re BF: 26mm backfocus would be about in line with my expections for "wisely chosen" Canon "EF-X" new native "slim" mirrorless FF mount parameters. BF in patents typically is a bit shorter than FFD. EF-M FFD is 18 mm. so 25mm BF lens does not "appear" to be designed for EF-M mount.
see patent for an EF-M 9-18mm BF is 14-16mm (wide end, long end).
http://www.canonrumors.com/patent-canon-ef-m-9-18mm-f3-5-4-5/

only my conclusion (guess, conjecture, ASSumption) though. :-)


but again, what gives me more pause re. this patent is the "soft focus" bit. cannot see sufficient market for it, when any of these IQ-degrading effects can easily be added via software - in camera or in post-process.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 02:49:28 AM by fullstop »

Antono Refa

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Re: Patent: Soft Focus Lens Designs, Various Focal Lengths
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2018, 03:06:13 AM »
It seems the patent requires the aperture to move when focusing. Is that right? Are there other primes that move the aperture when focusing?

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Re: Patent: Soft Focus Lens Designs, Various Focal Lengths
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2018, 03:06:13 AM »

jolyonralph

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Re: Patent: Soft Focus Lens Designs, Various Focal Lengths
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2018, 03:32:32 AM »

BF in patents typically is a bit shorter than FFD. EF-M FFD is 18 mm. so 25mm BF lens does not "appear" to be designed for EF-M mount.
see patent for an EF-M 9-18mm BF is 14-16mm (wide end, long end).

Don't forget the FFD only defines the *minimum* BF (and even then it can sometimes extend into the body), there's nothing stopping a lens designer using the EF-M mount and having the same BF as a standard EF lens, should they be lazy enough to do things that way.

In wide angle lenses the BF is usually pretty close to the FFD, but on longer lenses there's usually a big difference.  The 70-200 lenses for EF mount for example needs a gap for the extender.

So - long story short, you can't draw *any* conclusions about the FFD of the new mount from this lens.

In fact, all evidence so far is still pointing towards a FF capable EF-M mount - which I still think will be the best solution.
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Re: Patent: Soft Focus Lens Designs, Various Focal Lengths
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2018, 04:30:14 AM »
I agree, the only "highly likely conclusion" is that this 70-200 patent is not for EF mount [44mm FFD]. NF for the other 3 lenses in the patent is also quite a bit shorter than 44mm, but by far not as much as on that 70-200. 

In fact, all evidence so far is still pointing towards a FF capable EF-M mount - which I still think will be the best solution.

no and no. :-)
Canon execs responsible for EF-M themselves have clearly stated in an interview [I linked to it in some other thread] that it is not intended for FF image circle. But if you have newer "evidence" that they changed their mind on this, please provide information. 

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Re: Patent: Soft Focus Lens Designs, Various Focal Lengths
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2018, 04:30:14 AM »