July 19, 2018, 05:52:07 AM

Author Topic: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]  (Read 24037 times)

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #75 on: June 23, 2018, 01:44:23 PM »
The Sigma 16 f1.4 and 30 f1.4 for E-mount are sharp, fast and relatively affordable. 

There are many small Sony lens that are very good and small but expensive.




Bingo.  I have the Sigma 16/1.4 and Sigma 60/2.8 for my A6000, love them both!  I haven't checked so I could be wrong but am sure the Sigma 16 & 30 isn't available in EF-M, not sure of the Sigma 60?  Am going out today to buy the Sigma 30/1.4 in E mount.  These are all very good examples of affordable, fast, smallish, lightish, above average lenses not available in EF-M mount.  If I'm not wrong and they aren't available in EF-M mount that suggests Sigma doesn't see the business case there.

Yes the Canon 22 is good, the 11-22 UWA zoom is good, but then what else is there ???  Much of the aftermarket is passing the EF-M mount by, even for manual focus glass but they can't seem to get onboard with E mount fast enough.

Sony also has their decent 18-135, the 16-105/4.0 zoom is decent and unique being a constant f4, the 35 and 50 1.8's are good and have OSS, the Sony 85/1.8 is fantastic and not too overpriced, the 55-210 is more or less similar to the equivalent Canon zoom, but the Sony 10-18 is overpriced, the FF Sony 28/2.0 is a lens I'd like to have but am choosing the Sigma 30 over it for cost and aperture reasons.

So with E mount I have ready access to a handful of quite nice primes for reasonable money, some zoom's that are respectable with one even offering a constant f/4.0 with the only 'penalty' being the UWA which is priced double what it should be.  No adapters needed.

As a bonus what I like about Sony is when I do go FF I can use my crop lenses on the FF body, something you can't do (at least at this point) with Canon, maybe the upcoming FF mirrorless will allow it but again, this is Canon we're talking about, they'll find a way to make it impossible just to force you to upgrade.

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #75 on: June 23, 2018, 01:44:23 PM »

BillB

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #76 on: June 23, 2018, 01:52:50 PM »
This forum does not represent Canon's customer base,

true. About 90% of all Canapologists worldwide are posting here. :-)

Definitely an imaginary number!  But hopefully not intended to be taken literally.  Of course the "about" can be stretched a bit if the need arises.😊




stevelee

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #77 on: June 23, 2018, 01:57:03 PM »
It also offered lower dynamic range and no ALL-I video.

As for the dynamic range, I rarely shoot at ISO 100, so according to tests, that's beside the point for me. But I did ask here how I can demonstrate that DR problem using my own 6D2, and was told not to waste my time trying to duplicate the situation.

But I do have a question about ALL-I video. Is there any advantage to using it other than to speed up editing on slow computers? My understanding is that it creates larger file sizes by duplicating the unchanging parts of the picture on each frame, IOW, each frame is a key frame. For IPB the computer is reconstructing some frames by looking backward and forward at the unchanged parts of the picture and taking the supplied changed parts. I can see how that could be less than optimal with a very smoky atmosphere and the like. But in the video I have shot with the 6D2, I can't see that I have lost anything.

My computer is a 3 1/2-year-old iMac with a 4GHz i7 processor. It handles 1080p and 4K video in FCP X with no problems. So I have not experienced any slowdowns from IPB files. By the time I have edited a 15- or 20-minute video, FCP has temporarily eaten up about 300 GB of space on my SSD with its work files, however, so I know some of the illusion of speed comes from that.

From my limited experience I have no reason to doubt Canon's conclusion that ALL-I was not used that much on enthusiast-level cameras, and don't see much point in the expectation of its inclusion in that line of cameras except to look good on stat sheets.

fullstop

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #78 on: June 23, 2018, 01:59:52 PM »
Sigma 16/1.4
Sigma 60/2.8
Sony also has their decent 18-135,
the 16-105/4.0 zoom is decent and unique being a constant f4,
the 35 and
50 1.8's are good and have OSS,
the Sony 85/1.8 is fantastic and not too overpriced,
the 55-210 is more or less similar to the equivalent Canon zoom,
but the Sony 10-18 is overpriced,
the FF Sony 28/2.0 is a lens I'd like to have but am choosing the Sigma 30 over it for cost and aperture reasons.

Thanks for the list! Good to know.

stevelee

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #79 on: June 23, 2018, 02:15:21 PM »
I also shoot both the 80D and 6D2 and using these two cameras together is amazing and they pair so nicely and are so fun to use I personally have no desire what so ever to replace either one, not even with a better camera such as a 5D4.

The image quality I get out of these two cameras is extremely nice and I have no complaints.

All this negative internet crap about either one of these cameras is like blah blah blah and listening to fingernails running across a chalkboard.....

I have had a couple of Rebels, using most recently the T3i. A couple years ago, so it seems, I decided to upgrade to an 80D and started reading up on it. I think I would have been really pleased with it, but I started seeing rumors that a 6D2 was in the works, and decided that as long as I was upgrading my camera body, I would go FF. The wait turned out a lot longer than I expected, but I have been pleased with the results. If for some reason I still wanted another body of that sensor size, based on its similarities to the 6D2, I would not hesitate to get an 80D or its successor.

I had not always considered that I would eventually go FF, but it never made sense to me to buy an EF-S prime or a zoom longer than the kit lens. I got a 75-300mm EF zoom thrown in for $100 when I bought my first Rebel, so that has been my telephoto until my recent purchase of the 100-400mm. (I was never that happy with the former lens, but didn't regret the $100. And it did make surprisingly good pictures of the total eclipse.) So I never felt slighted at the lack of EF-S lenses when there were so many EF lenses available that would fit my Rebels. Of course I did go with EF-S when I needed super wide angle.

Talys

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #80 on: June 23, 2018, 03:53:29 PM »
As a bonus what I like about Sony is when I do go FF I can use my crop lenses on the FF body, something you can't do (at least at this point) with Canon, maybe the upcoming FF mirrorless will allow it but again, this is Canon we're talking about, they'll find a way to make it impossible just to force you to upgrade.

As a practical matter, this isn't really that great a feature on the Sony.  The A7R has an excellent crop mode, which gives you a great 18 megapixel crop using full frame lenses.  It's unlikely that someone will invest $3,000 in a camera body and not have equivalent full frame glass of some sort that can do a good job in crop mode for whatever it is you want, since pretty much every focal length can be covered between 24mm to 200mm, and there's no spectacular APSC glass that you'll have invested a huge amount of money in to transition over.

The cheaper A7 has too few pixels when you take a APSC crop out of it to be generally usable, whether it's crop mode or a APSC lens.  I assume nearly nobody goes and spends big bucks on an A9 to use APSC glass.

jolyonralph

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #81 on: June 23, 2018, 04:56:13 PM »
As a bonus what I like about Sony is when I do go FF I can use my crop lenses on the FF body...
As a practical matter, this isn't really that great a feature on the Sony.

This is actually more useful than it seems, because not only can you use the lenses with an automatic APS-C crop, but you can attempt to use the full-frame sensor with the lens.

With some lenses, eg the ultrawide zooms for APS-C, there image circle can cover a much wider area than the APS-C area. Now, usually there's strong vignetting, in most cases the corners are not useable as they are, and of course APS-C lenses are not designed optically to keep those areas outside of the APS-C image circle sharp, so it's pretty much luck as to whether you can get something useable or not.  But, if you already have an APS-C ultrawide, and you haven't yet invested in FF lenses, it's actually quite impressive what it CAN do as a stop-gap.

Even the EF-S 18-55 IS can cover a surprising amount of the FF area at mid zoom ranges!!!

Remember, even if the corners aren't perfect or you can't use the entire edges, you can in many cases edit the corners in photoshop, and/or crop the image down to smaller than FF but larger than APS-C.

TL;DR; Don't knock using APS-C lenses on a FF body until you've tried it.
Jolyon Ralph

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #81 on: June 23, 2018, 04:56:13 PM »

bwud

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #82 on: June 23, 2018, 05:06:17 PM »
I have no crop lenses for my A7Riii, but often crop in post because I’m focal length limited even with options up to 800mm. I’d definately try the auto crop thing if there were a compelling APS-C lens.

Generalized Specialist

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #83 on: June 23, 2018, 05:20:29 PM »
As a practical matter, this isn't really that great a feature on the Sony. 

To each their own but I think this is a brilliant feature on Sony cams.  Using myself as an example, I'm a regular single income household with a mortgage, car payment, child support and a child going to University in 2 years on top of all the other usual expenses.  Dropping $5k+ on a body and a couple of lenses would be a strain for me, especially since my childs' education comes before camera equipment.  To be able to get a body and being able to use my existing crop lenses on a FF body making do while I budget for more and better FF glass is a bonus.

BillB

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #84 on: June 23, 2018, 05:24:12 PM »
I have no crop lenses for my A7Riii, but often crop in post because I’m focal length limited even with options up to 800mm. I’d definately try the auto crop thing if there were a compelling APS-C lens.

And what would a compelling aps-c lens look like? 

neuroanatomist

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #85 on: June 23, 2018, 05:47:20 PM »
As a practical matter, this isn't really that great a feature on the Sony. 

To each their own but I think this is a brilliant feature on Sony cams.  Using myself as an example, I'm a regular single income household with a mortgage, car payment, child support and a child going to University in 2 years on top of all the other usual expenses.  Dropping $5k+ on a body and a couple of lenses would be a strain for me, especially since my childs' education comes before camera equipment.  To be able to get a body and being able to use my existing crop lenses on a FF body making do while I budget for more and better FF glass is a bonus.

I don't see it. First, it begs the question – why get the FF camera at all?   Second, I just had a look at the a7III on B&H.  Bundling it with the FE 28-70/3.5-5.6 adds $200 to the cost of the body, just 10% more.  So, save a little longer.  The cost benefits of APS-C lenses are in the wide/standard range. $200 gets you the FF version of an 18-55 kit lens, and an APS-C UWA on FF won't be ultra wide anyway. 

The converse – native mounting of FF lenses on APS-C bodies – makes sense.  That works for the Canon EF and Sony E mounts, but it remains to be seen if that will remain true for Canon mirrorless.
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bwud

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #86 on: June 23, 2018, 06:25:25 PM »
I have no crop lenses for my A7Riii, but often crop in post because I’m focal length limited even with options up to 800mm. I’d definately try the auto crop thing if there were a compelling APS-C lens.

And what would a compelling aps-c lens look like?

Something like 200-800 with f/6.3 or f/8 at the long end would be interesting. I’m fully aware that I’ll likely not go beyond 800mm; I’m not paying 15,000 for a lens.

With a smaller image circle, keeping that aperture isn’t a huge stretch, and thus autofocus wouldn’t suffer like with f/11 on the 2XTC 100-400.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 06:34:06 PM by bwud »

gsealy

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #87 on: June 23, 2018, 07:10:07 PM »
We'll see, of course.  Every year it seems that we get all this advance excitement and promises.  We wait for 6-12 months.  Then the camera is released, and it underwhelms us.  It's a good camera, but definitely less than what people thought it would be. 

The video specs are out there for everybody to see.  They are not a secret.  The GH5 is kicking it spec-wise, and most probably by the time the 90D hits the street  there will be a GH6, which is another step up.  The 70D was a revolutionary camera because it introduced DPAF.  The 80D is an evolutionary camera over the 70D.  Both are great cameras, but they are not what the GH5 is in terms of video quality that video shooters want.  Yes, the GH5 is more expensive, but video guys are willing to pay for the additional features. 

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #87 on: June 23, 2018, 07:10:07 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #88 on: June 23, 2018, 07:20:15 PM »
I have no crop lenses for my A7Riii, but often crop in post because I’m focal length limited even with options up to 800mm. I’d definately try the auto crop thing if there were a compelling APS-C lens.

And what would a compelling aps-c lens look like?

Something like 200-800 with f/6.3 or f/8 at the long end would be interesting. I’m fully aware that I’ll likely not go beyond 800mm; I’m not paying 15,000 for a lens.

With a smaller image circle, keeping that aperture isn’t a huge stretch, and thus autofocus wouldn’t suffer like with f/11 on the 2XTC 100-400.

There's zero benefit to making a lens >200mm with an APS-C image circle.  At those focal lengths, the diameter of the image circle is not limiting.
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Talys

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #89 on: June 23, 2018, 07:27:18 PM »
I have no crop lenses for my A7Riii, but often crop in post because I’m focal length limited even with options up to 800mm. I’d definately try the auto crop thing if there were a compelling APS-C lens.

Just map the crop mode onto a button, and push it :)

The APSC mode will work just like that... except you can't turn it off.  Frankly, I think the crop mode is one of the best features of mirrorless.  Not only do you get to have the crop image fill up the whole viewfinder (which is a big reason that wildlife folks like crop cameras), but you also are able to save dramatically smaller RAW files, when you know you're going to discard half the full frame image anyways.

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #89 on: June 23, 2018, 07:27:18 PM »