July 23, 2018, 11:48:46 AM

Author Topic: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]  (Read 25543 times)

Durf

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #90 on: June 23, 2018, 07:29:40 PM »
I have no crop lenses for my A7Riii, but often crop in post because I’m focal length limited even with options up to 800mm. I’d definately try the auto crop thing if there were a compelling APS-C lens.

Just map the crop mode onto a button, and push it :)

The APSC mode will work just like that... except you can't turn it off.  Frankly, I think the crop mode is one of the best features of mirrorless.  Not only do you get to have the crop image fill up the whole viewfinder (which is a big reason that wildlife folks like crop cameras), but you also are able to save dramatically smaller RAW files, when you know you're going to discard half the full frame image anyways.

Scratches head????

Reckon I'll go spend 2 or 3 grand for a FF camera so I can shoot it in crop mode! LOL
6D2 | 80D | T6i | 16-35mm f/4L | 50mm f/1.8 STM | Tamron SP 45mm & 85mm f/1.8  | 100mm f2.8L Macro | 70-300mm IS USM L | Sigma 150-600mm | 
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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #90 on: June 23, 2018, 07:29:40 PM »

Talys

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #91 on: June 23, 2018, 07:38:37 PM »
I have no crop lenses for my A7Riii, but often crop in post because I’m focal length limited even with options up to 800mm. I’d definately try the auto crop thing if there were a compelling APS-C lens.

Just map the crop mode onto a button, and push it :)

The APSC mode will work just like that... except you can't turn it off.  Frankly, I think the crop mode is one of the best features of mirrorless.  Not only do you get to have the crop image fill up the whole viewfinder (which is a big reason that wildlife folks like crop cameras), but you also are able to save dramatically smaller RAW files, when you know you're going to discard half the full frame image anyways.

Scratches head????

Reckon I'll go spend 2 or 3 grand for a FF camera so I can shoot it in crop mode! LOL

oh.. bwud was just saying, he'd try crop mode if there were a compelling APSC lens, and I pointed out that there's no need -- you can have exactly the same experience with a full frame lens, using the crop function (it's the experience).

The crop mode is nice.  For example, let's say you have a 70-200 mounted, and you're taking a picture of something that would be better photographed at 300 or 400mm, but, that's just not the lens you have on.  Hit crop mode, and suddenly, you have the 110 - 320mm equivalent -- you see it through the viewfinder, and it's still f/2.8.  And, the file size is less than half.

Would it be better to swap in the right lens?  For sure, because the center 18 megapixels of a 43 megapixel sensor are grainier than if you tool the photo using the whole 43 megapixels and reduced it down.  But it takes only a second to push a button and a lot longer to swap the lens, if you have it on you.  Plus, it's not an option if the subject is beyond uncropped reach of your longest lens (which natively on Sony is 400mm, plus a 1.4x TC; their 2x doesn't count, because it's terrible).

Also, in the time that I had borrowed the A7R3, I absolutely hated changing lenses on the field.  The damned sensor was a dust magnet, and the tiniest grain of sand blurs out an ugly dark blob on every photo until it's removed.  On a DSLR, most of the dust goes onto the mirror or Fresnel.  I'm happy to ignore what I see through the viewfinder as long as I don't have it on all my pictures!
« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 07:41:46 PM by Talys »

Talys

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #92 on: June 23, 2018, 07:51:27 PM »
I have no crop lenses for my A7Riii, but often crop in post because I’m focal length limited even with options up to 800mm. I’d definately try the auto crop thing if there were a compelling APS-C lens.

And what would a compelling aps-c lens look like?

Something like 200-800 with f/6.3 or f/8 at the long end would be interesting. I’m fully aware that I’ll likely not go beyond 800mm; I’m not paying 15,000 for a lens.

With a smaller image circle, keeping that aperture isn’t a huge stretch, and thus autofocus wouldn’t suffer like with f/11 on the 2XTC 100-400.

There's zero benefit to making a lens >200mm with an APS-C image circle.  At those focal lengths, the diameter of the image circle is not limiting.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is why the Olympus 75-300mm opts for f/6.7 as the mechanism to shrink the lens; also, why the Fuji 100-400 is no smaller than the full frame equivalents from Canon/Nikon/Sony.

bwud

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #93 on: June 23, 2018, 07:55:41 PM »
I have no crop lenses for my A7Riii, but often crop in post because I’m focal length limited even with options up to 800mm. I’d definately try the auto crop thing if there were a compelling APS-C lens.

Just map the crop mode onto a button, and push it :)

The APSC mode will work just like that... except you can't turn it off.  Frankly, I think the crop mode is one of the best features of mirrorless.  Not only do you get to have the crop image fill up the whole viewfinder (which is a big reason that wildlife folks like crop cameras), but you also are able to save dramatically smaller RAW files, when you know you're going to discard half the full frame image anyways.

Scratches head????

Reckon I'll go spend 2 or 3 grand for a FF camera so I can shoot it in crop mode! LOL

oh.. bwud was just saying, he'd try crop mode if there were a compelling APSC lens, and I pointed out that there's no need -- you can have exactly the same experience with a full frame lens, using the crop function (it's the experience).

But see how I defined compelling: 800mm with useful autofocus and without a 15,000 dollar expense. That’s conceivable with a high quality crop lens. It’s extremely unlikely with a high quality full frame lens.

Incidentally, does it actually crop the raw, or does it just add a tag to crop in post?

Durf

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #94 on: June 23, 2018, 07:56:31 PM »
I have no crop lenses for my A7Riii, but often crop in post because I’m focal length limited even with options up to 800mm. I’d definately try the auto crop thing if there were a compelling APS-C lens.

Just map the crop mode onto a button, and push it :)

The APSC mode will work just like that... except you can't turn it off.  Frankly, I think the crop mode is one of the best features of mirrorless.  Not only do you get to have the crop image fill up the whole viewfinder (which is a big reason that wildlife folks like crop cameras), but you also are able to save dramatically smaller RAW files, when you know you're going to discard half the full frame image anyways.

Scratches head????

Reckon I'll go spend 2 or 3 grand for a FF camera so I can shoot it in crop mode! LOL

oh.. bwud was just saying, he'd try crop mode if there were a compelling APSC lens, and I pointed out that there's no need -- you can have exactly the same experience with a full frame lens, using the crop function (it's the experience).

The crop mode is nice.  For example, let's say you have a 70-200 mounted, and you're taking a picture of something that would be better photographed at 300 or 400mm, but, that's just not the lens you have on.  Hit crop mode, and suddenly, you have the 110 - 320mm equivalent -- you see it through the viewfinder, and it's still f/2.8.  And, the file size is less than half.

Would it be better to swap in the right lens?  For sure, because the center 18 megapixels of a 43 megapixel sensor are grainier than if you tool the photo using the whole 43 megapixels and reduced it down.  But it takes only a second to push a button and a lot longer to swap the lens, if you have it on you.  Plus, it's not an option if the subject is beyond uncropped reach of your longest lens (which natively on Sony is 400mm, plus a 1.4x TC; their 2x doesn't count, because it's terrible).

Also, in the time that I had borrowed the A7R3, I absolutely hated changing lenses on the field.  The damned sensor was a dust magnet, and the tiniest grain of sand blurs out an ugly dark blob on every photo until it's removed.  On a DSLR, most of the dust goes onto the mirror or Fresnel.  I'm happy to ignore what I see through the viewfinder as long as I don't have it on all my pictures!

Doing that sounds like taking a pretty good hit on image quality, especially if you needed to crop a little more in post and make a good size print.

Yes, that's another reason I am not so excited about mirrorless, I am often out in some pretty harsh terrain and dusty conditions and sometimes changing lenses to get different perspectives. I really like having the mirror for a little added protection.....and over the years have grown attached to the sound it makes when taking a photo) ;)
6D2 | 80D | T6i | 16-35mm f/4L | 50mm f/1.8 STM | Tamron SP 45mm & 85mm f/1.8  | 100mm f2.8L Macro | 70-300mm IS USM L | Sigma 150-600mm | 
Pentax K1000 | Vintage Glass: Takumar-Pentax-Helios |
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Durf

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #95 on: June 23, 2018, 07:59:23 PM »
I have no crop lenses for my A7Riii, but often crop in post because I’m focal length limited even with options up to 800mm. I’d definately try the auto crop thing if there were a compelling APS-C lens.

Just map the crop mode onto a button, and push it :)

The APSC mode will work just like that... except you can't turn it off.  Frankly, I think the crop mode is one of the best features of mirrorless.  Not only do you get to have the crop image fill up the whole viewfinder (which is a big reason that wildlife folks like crop cameras), but you also are able to save dramatically smaller RAW files, when you know you're going to discard half the full frame image anyways.

Scratches head????

Reckon I'll go spend 2 or 3 grand for a FF camera so I can shoot it in crop mode! LOL

oh.. bwud was just saying, he'd try crop mode if there were a compelling APSC lens, and I pointed out that there's no need -- you can have exactly the same experience with a full frame lens, using the crop function (it's the experience).

But see how I defined compelling: 800mm with useful autofocus and without a 15,000 dollar expense. That’s conceivable with a high quality crop lens. It’s extremely unlikely with a high quality full frame lens.

Incidentally, does it actually crop the raw, or does it just add a tag to crop in post?

That does sound interesting, would love to see some image samples. I'm curious what the IQ results would look like
6D2 | 80D | T6i | 16-35mm f/4L | 50mm f/1.8 STM | Tamron SP 45mm & 85mm f/1.8  | 100mm f2.8L Macro | 70-300mm IS USM L | Sigma 150-600mm | 
Pentax K1000 | Vintage Glass: Takumar-Pentax-Helios |
www.DurfsJournal.com

bwud

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #96 on: June 23, 2018, 08:00:21 PM »
Well so far such a lens doesn’t exist so it’s just a hypothetical :D

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #96 on: June 23, 2018, 08:00:21 PM »

Talys

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #97 on: June 23, 2018, 08:20:39 PM »
I have no crop lenses for my A7Riii, but often crop in post because I’m focal length limited even with options up to 800mm. I’d definately try the auto crop thing if there were a compelling APS-C lens.

Just map the crop mode onto a button, and push it :)

The APSC mode will work just like that... except you can't turn it off.  Frankly, I think the crop mode is one of the best features of mirrorless.  Not only do you get to have the crop image fill up the whole viewfinder (which is a big reason that wildlife folks like crop cameras), but you also are able to save dramatically smaller RAW files, when you know you're going to discard half the full frame image anyways.

Scratches head????

Reckon I'll go spend 2 or 3 grand for a FF camera so I can shoot it in crop mode! LOL

oh.. bwud was just saying, he'd try crop mode if there were a compelling APSC lens, and I pointed out that there's no need -- you can have exactly the same experience with a full frame lens, using the crop function (it's the experience).

But see how I defined compelling: 800mm with useful autofocus and without a 15,000 dollar expense. That’s conceivable with a high quality crop lens. It’s extremely unlikely with a high quality full frame lens.

Incidentally, does it actually crop the raw, or does it just add a tag to crop in post?

The Sony crop mode is good.  It's a real crop of the RAW, that takes up less than half the size of the full RAW (which is a brutal 80MB+), and also, the buffer is much larger in crop mode.  It is a feature they got right.

Assuming you want 800mm equivalent (so, 500mm APSC), I fear the problem will be that you'll just have something like the Fuji 100-400: an excellent APSC lens that is about the same size, weight, and price as a full frame equivalent (from Canon/Nikon/Sony).

fullstop

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #98 on: June 23, 2018, 08:36:49 PM »
But see how I defined compelling: 800mm with useful autofocus and without a 15,000 dollar expense. That’s conceivable with a high quality crop lens. It’s extremely unlikely with a high quality full frame lens.

for long tele lenses it makes no difference whether it is for APS-C or FF sensor (image circle). Lens will physically be same size - and cost the same. :-)

bwud

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #99 on: June 23, 2018, 09:09:41 PM »
But see how I defined compelling: 800mm with useful autofocus and without a 15,000 dollar expense. That’s conceivable with a high quality crop lens. It’s extremely unlikely with a high quality full frame lens.

for long tele lenses it makes no difference whether it is for APS-C or FF sensor (image circle). Lens will physically be same size - and cost the same. :-)

I’m not concerned with size. I’m concerned with function. My 100-400 with 2X is essentially useless for moving subjects. Lenses covering smaller formats are typically less expensive.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 09:13:37 PM by bwud »

Bennymiata

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #100 on: June 23, 2018, 09:11:21 PM »
I hope Canon starts using USB C connectors on their cameras.
Then you'll be able to charge it via this plug and output would be much faster and it will be easier to find leads to connect the camera to other devices.

bwud

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #101 on: June 23, 2018, 09:17:39 PM »
I hope Canon starts using USB C connectors on their cameras.
Then you'll be able to charge it via this plug and output would be much faster and it will be easier to find leads to connect the camera to other devices.

Agreed. I use a 3.6amp wall socket to charge my A7Riii (two batteries) over USB-C. It’s quite quick, faster than the wall adapter in fact, and since the batteries don’t come out there’s no chance I’ll leave them behind.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 09:27:07 PM by bwud »

privatebydesign

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #102 on: June 23, 2018, 09:25:33 PM »
...Both are great cameras, but they are not what the GH5 is in terms of video quality that video shooters want.  Yes, the GH5 is more expensive, but video guys are willing to pay for the additional features.

The GH5 is twice the price! In a price sensitive market any comparison between a $1,000 anything and it's $2,000 competition is ludicrous.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #102 on: June 23, 2018, 09:25:33 PM »

unfocused

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #103 on: June 23, 2018, 10:01:38 PM »
But see how I defined compelling: 800mm with useful autofocus and without a 15,000 dollar expense. That’s conceivable with a high quality crop lens. It’s extremely unlikely with a high quality full frame lens.

for long tele lenses it makes no difference whether it is for APS-C or FF sensor (image circle). Lens will physically be same size - and cost the same. :-)

I’m not concerned with size. I’m concerned with function. My 100-400 with 2X is essentially useless for moving subjects. Lenses covering smaller formats are typically less expensive.

No. As fullstop said. For long lenses there is no cost savings between full frame and crop.

unfocused

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #104 on: June 23, 2018, 10:14:43 PM »
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe most third party crop sensor lenses can be mounted on canon full frame bodies - although the lens will vignette at the edges, the image circle should cover the aps-c dimensions on the full frame sensor.

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Re: The EOS 80D Replacement to be a Big Leap Forward [CR2]
« Reply #104 on: June 23, 2018, 10:14:43 PM »