July 22, 2018, 02:39:42 PM

Author Topic: Announcements Coming The First Week of September [CR2]  (Read 14752 times)

xps

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Re: Announcements Coming The First Week of September [CR2]
« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2018, 04:50:11 PM »
Quote
IMO the price will be higher, like the 5DIV, as this body is an game changer for canon.
And I do not believe, the fps will be over 10. As the filesize is high and canon needs an extra fast card, which they still do not use in lower than 1D bodies.

Price may be $3500, I cant see it going over that especially if Nikon is going to launch with d850 like specs for around $3000.

As for cards there is no way this camera will release with SD-USH1 specs. It will prob have 1 SD-UHS2 slot and possibly 2. The 2nd card (has to be a 2nd card on a 5d level camera) could be CF Express. Canon was slammed for using outdated card tech on the 5d4. Wont make that mistake again.

that entirely depends on how many I/O lanes DIGIC has available.  Canon wasn't really slammed btw.
Isn´t it an question of royalty too? If you build in the newest and fastest technology this is much more expensive

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Re: Announcements Coming The First Week of September [CR2]
« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2018, 04:50:11 PM »

nbaresejr

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Re: Announcements Coming The First Week of September [CR2]
« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2018, 04:52:32 PM »
Quote
a few things.

5 axis VIDEO stabilization is what the M50 has, not image stabilization.
9.5 FPS that the M50 does is also AE/AF locked.  it's really 7.5 fps with AF/AE
AF points with a DPAF sensor is relatively meaningless for most AF modes, unlike for Sony,etc.  for AI servo,etc you are dealing with groups of pixels out of 20 some odd million different positions.


good catch, thanks for clarifying.

Quote
I hope so. But the 5DIV sells very well... So, they could do that again.

I know, I own one :)  Its a great Camera and has served me well. I dont shoot images off a spec sheet and have never been limited by the current FPS or card slots. I just think its time to start competing better in the spec sheet war. People like us who are Canon shooters are most likely going to stay no matter what but they need to attract new customers to keep solidly #1. That and im tired from hearing from my Nikon and Sony shooting friends lol.


ahsanford

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Re: Announcements Coming The First Week of September [CR2]
« Reply #47 on: July 11, 2018, 05:06:27 PM »
My Best Guess for the FF specs.

30.4mp- new sensor with BIS (we have seen patents that canon is working on BIS sensors). Dynamic range
5 Axis Image Stabilization (currently on M50)

I don't see IBIS happening, but I suppose it is possible.  That said, The M50 doesn't have true floating sensor IBIS for stills -- I believe it just has electronic IBIS for video.  Big difference.

And as for needing to hit a homerun, it all depends on with respect to what?  It sure as hell isn't a homerun of body specs -- Canon can absolutely compete (if not win) with lower specs than the bad guys.  I refer to you [checks glasses] virtually everything Canon has sold since the 5D2 as proof of that.

- A

bdbender4

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Re: Announcements Coming The First Week of September [CR2]
« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2018, 05:06:41 PM »
I can wait and see what happens in full frame; personally much more interested in APS-C. I have had an M5 since they came out, and use it daily.

I recently sold off all my other camera gear, including a FF Canon SLR setup and an extensive Fuji setup. Toward the end of the changeover I used the Fuji XT-20 alongside the M5 for a couple of weeks, and although I wish Canon had a great lens selection like Fuji does, the in-hand experience was all in Canon's favor. And I know how to use Fuji, that was my 6th Fuji body. Fuji still sucks at body firmware, just like they always have, never mind the "Kaizen" baloney.

I will pre-order the M5 update even if it has green teeth and crawls around the floor at night.

What I really want, though, along with many many other folks, are some more EF-M prime lenses, starting with the 32mm f/1.? Something other than consumer zooms!!
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 05:11:12 PM by bdbender4 »

ahsanford

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Re: Announcements Coming The First Week of September [CR2]
« Reply #49 on: July 11, 2018, 05:09:28 PM »
AF points with a DPAF sensor is relatively meaningless for most AF modes, unlike for Sony,etc.  for AI servo,etc you are dealing with groups of pixels out of 20 some odd million different positions.

+1.  AF Point count is not really a differentiating factor for these non-OVF systems in practical use.

It's much more a case of:

  • Is it peppy
  • Is it accurate, reliable, consistent, etc.
  • Do you have just about all the frame accessible for focusing
  • Does it track well

- A

nbaresejr

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Re: Announcements Coming The First Week of September [CR2]
« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2018, 05:13:08 PM »
Quote
And as for needing to hit a homerun, it all depends on with respect to what?  It sure as hell isn't a homerun of body specs -- Canon can absolutely compete (if not win) with lower specs than the bad guys.  I refer to you [checks glasses] virtually everything Canon has sold since the 5D2 as proof of that.

In terms of market share I agree with what you are saying. At what point do they stop the bleeding. I have seen many friends ditch there Canon camera for Sony A7rii and newer. I personally know many more who are waiting for this release before they decide to jump ship also. Nikon or Sony taking over #1 in market share is not going to happen any time soon but I think we can all agree we want to see them have some innovative products sooner then later.

ahsanford

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Re: Announcements Coming The First Week of September [CR2]
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2018, 05:19:25 PM »
In terms of market share I agree with what you are saying. At what point do they stop the bleeding. I have seen many friends ditch there Canon camera for Sony A7rii and newer. I personally know many more who are waiting for this release before they decide to jump ship also. Nikon or Sony taking over #1 in market share is not going to happen any time soon but I think we can all agree we want to see them have some innovative products sooner then later.

Canon isn't losing share.  They are plugging away like they always do.

I don't mean to be that 'facts aren't so' head in the sand climate change denier here, but please present me data that Canon is losing share year over year.   I don't believe that data exists.

So I have no idea what they need to stop the bleeding of... other than losing fanboy pride over having the most awesome spec sheets?  I concede the point there.  Sony and Nikon are so crushing it in the spec sheet market.

- A
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 07:59:44 PM by ahsanford »

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Re: Announcements Coming The First Week of September [CR2]
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2018, 05:19:25 PM »

Adrianf

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Re: Announcements Coming The First Week of September [CR2]
« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2018, 05:23:20 PM »
I don't get mirrorless. I almost understand MFT where the lenses are smaller too but a 24-70 F2.8 is a big chunk of lens and a FF DSLR looks and feels right on it. Some of these mirrorless jobs look like someone just stuck a cigarette packet on the back of a big-ass lens. I'm a bird photographer most of the time. I joke that my standard lens is 500mm F4. My 5D4 focusses brilliantly with it and feels right in the hand. If mirrorless can out-perform it then fair enough, I'll give it a go, but I feel that is some way off yet.

rjbray01

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Re: Announcements Coming The First Week of September [CR2]
« Reply #53 on: July 11, 2018, 05:33:22 PM »
We think we’re going to get more than a mirrorless version of a two year old camera.

I would like to believe that too, but I'm not sure how different it will be other than what's necessary to make it mirrorless.  Make no mistake, the 5D IV is a great camera and probably enough to get Canon into the full frame mirrorless game in a big way, but Canon doesn't really seem to enjoy rocking the boat for the sake of rocking the boat - only releasing a limited number of key new features at a time. 

For the 5D IV to become mirrorless, it will need an EVF which could enable all sorts of things which aren't possible right now, so Canon will have their big new features to push - they may not opt to add much more than that.  Considering that a 5D IV is intended to be a relatively high-performing camera, I would think maybe they'll really push the latency of the EVF and advertise it as a low latency pro-mirrorless camera - that would be very much in line with Canon's focus on usability and reliability, and it wouldn't threaten their other lines.

But again, if this is really just a 5D IV I think the real question we all want to know is will it have dual pixel raw??!!   ;)

If they could come up with a 5D IV with a truly awesome EVF (low latency and very high resolution) plus Image stabilization for still shots then I think it would be a great proposition. 

If they could add a hybrid EVF/OVF into the mix that would be stellar.

Hmmm,  home come I'm feeling so very, very pessimistic though ?




rjbray01

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Re: Announcements Coming The First Week of September [CR2]
« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2018, 05:40:45 PM »
In terms of market share I agree with what you are saying. At what point do they stop the bleeding. I have seen many friends ditch there Canon camera for Sony A7rii and newer. I personally know many more who are waiting for this release before they decide to jump ship also. Nikon or Sony taking over #1 in market share is not going to happen any time soon but I think we can all agree we want to see them have some innovative products sooner then later.

Canon isn't losing share.  They are plugging away like they always do.

I don't mean to be that 'facts aren't' so head in the sand climate change denier here, but please present me data that Canon is losing share year over year.   I don't believe that data exists.

So I have no idea what they need to stop the bleeding of... other than losing fanboy pride over having the most awesome spec sheets?  I concede the point there.  Sony and Nikon are so crushing it in the spec sheet market.

- A

I almost never see Sony Alpha cameras out on the streets where I live and we are flooded with tourists all year round.

I think Canon and Nikon still have the momentum in the camera market ...

But that's what it is ... momentum.

If these announcements in September don't offer a compelling competitor product to Sony's Alpha range and any other cameras of a similar spec then I think its inevitable they will lose that momentum. 

At the moment the magazines, shops, online stores and all the other places the general public go to get advice on cameras aren't exactly "slamming" Canon, I guess because they are waiting to see what Canon have up their sleeve.

But ... if the answer is "not a lot" then I think we could see a lot of the main "influencers" in the camera market become quite vocal and articulate about where Canon are sitting these days ... and this would have an impact no doubt.



« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 05:45:32 PM by rjbray01 »

Don Haines

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Re: Announcements Coming The First Week of September [CR2]
« Reply #55 on: July 11, 2018, 05:41:31 PM »
Quote
And as for needing to hit a homerun, it all depends on with respect to what?  It sure as hell isn't a homerun of body specs -- Canon can absolutely compete (if not win) with lower specs than the bad guys.  I refer to you [checks glasses] virtually everything Canon has sold since the 5D2 as proof of that.

In terms of market share I agree with what you are saying. At what point do they stop the bleeding. I have seen many friends ditch there Canon camera for Sony A7rii and newer. I personally know many more who are waiting for this release before they decide to jump ship also. Nikon or Sony taking over #1 in market share is not going to happen any time soon but I think we can all agree we want to see them have some innovative products sooner then later.

Here’s the problem.... we all have a list of friends who have abandoned Canon for Sony (or Nikon), yet Canons market share has risen.... that’s the range of anecdotal data....

Another thing that has been proven repeatedly over the years is that we forum members do not represent the typical Canon buyer, and if anything, we are the opposite of typical.

BTW, welcome to the forum!
The best camera is the one in your hands

rjbray01

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Re: Announcements Coming The First Week of September [CR2]
« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2018, 05:51:51 PM »
I don't get mirrorless. I almost understand MFT where the lenses are smaller too but a 24-70 F2.8 is a big chunk of lens and a FF DSLR looks and feels right on it. Some of these mirrorless jobs look like someone just stuck a cigarette packet on the back of a big-ass lens. I'm a bird photographer most of the time. I joke that my standard lens is 500mm F4. My 5D4 focusses brilliantly with it and feels right in the hand. If mirrorless can out-perform it then fair enough, I'll give it a go, but I feel that is some way off yet.

Yeap - I bought a Canon M5 and was horrified - especially with large lenses on it.  The EVF resolution and latency was terrible, and the tiny was horrible to manhandle. 

I sold it after a few weeks and went back to my 5D IV.

But ... if Canon could get a high-res (call it "retina") EVF with near-zero latency such that it was actually indistinguishable from an OVF, and mounted that into a 5D IV body then ... that would be a fabulous combination.

EVF would allow you to preview your shots - and in particular focus and exposure - before you took them.  And, add to the mix the ability to review them through the viewfinder when in bright conditions outdoors ...happy days.

My question is whether Canon can actually come up with that decent EVF - whilst everyone else seems fixated on the mount - which seems to me to be way less important - call me a heretic !!!


padam

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Re: Announcements Coming The First Week of September [CR2]
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2018, 05:54:37 PM »
People are expecting too much from this very first iteration.
It won't do FF 4k and it won't have IBIS.

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Re: Announcements Coming The First Week of September [CR2]
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2018, 05:54:37 PM »

nbaresejr

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Re: Announcements Coming The First Week of September [CR2]
« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2018, 06:04:15 PM »
Quote
Here’s the problem.... we all have a list of friends who have abandoned Canon for Sony (or Nikon), yet Canons market share has risen.... that’s the range of anecdotal data....

Another thing that has been proven repeatedly over the years is that we forum members do not represent the typical Canon buyer, and if anything, we are the opposite of typical.

BTW, welcome to the forum!

Thank you! It looks like I joined in 2013 but never posted anything. Just like to read what you are all saying and love the speculation.

Your right, us enthusiasts(me) or pros account for such a small percentage of Canon buyers.

In truth all I would really want changed in my 5d4 is and EVF (the what you see is what you get i think is a great thing, especially for a non pro like me). Also a tilt screen, its pretty tough getting the composition and level correct when using my Platypod on the ground. I was very envious of my friend with a D750 and tilt screen when I took this pic. https://www.nickbarese.com/Galleries/Tri-State-Area/i-GPd865w/A. I tried using the phone app and it works good, just wish there was a level on the app. Maybe there is and i cant find it!

ahsanford

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Re: Announcements Coming The First Week of September [CR2]
« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2018, 08:11:16 PM »
At the moment the magazines, shops, online stores and all the other places the general public go to get advice on cameras aren't exactly "slamming" Canon, I guess because they are waiting to see what Canon have up their sleeve.

Narrative #1:  Canon is so screwed.  Have you seen the specs of the [insert new Sony or Nikon camera here]?  They had better respond.

Narrative #2:  Canon's only doing okay because everyone is waiting for them to respond to Sony with a super mirrorless camera.  If they what they roll out doesn't cure cancer, have perfectly clean ISO 25,600 files or nail eyeballs with the AF while shooting 20 fps on a floating IBIS sensor, Canon will be the next Kodak.

(RJ, you didn't say those exact words, forgive me.  But you get my point.)

The narrative is consistent with Canon either being outperformed or failing to meet spec sheet / feature set  expectations.  And Canon yawns and keeps on selling.

Don't get me wrong, they 100% could fail to meet everyone's high expectations.  I'm just saying that they are legendary for letting you down on specs yet somehow finding people to buy these things.  I contend that the line items not on the spec sheet -- native EF compatibility, reputation for quality / reliability, service, ergonomics, interface, etc. -- might be the reason why.

- A

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Re: Announcements Coming The First Week of September [CR2]
« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2018, 08:11:16 PM »