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Author Topic: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]  (Read 299314 times)

Axilrod

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #150 on: February 22, 2012, 07:08:59 PM »
HOW ABOUT A 4K VIDEO to justify the price, given how popular the 5dII was among filmmakers.

I think it's happening.  8)

Wont happen, it would eat up the sales of the 4K Cinema DSLR and that's definitely going to be a more expensive camera.  I'm sure it will have improved video, hopefully reduced moire and less banding, no rolling shutter.  All of that seems possible considering video on the 5DII was an afterthought.
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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #150 on: February 22, 2012, 07:08:59 PM »

Gcon

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #151 on: February 22, 2012, 07:10:15 PM »
I am interested in battery compatibly as I got burned from 5D to 5DII battery incompatibility as I have 8 batteries (two gripped 5D2's uses 4, and then 4 spare).

Along those lines I have have no inclination to use SD cards. They are small and annoying because they are much easier to lose that CF cards. I hate them. I have 4 32GB CF cards and would rather have all 4 stuffed into two bodies, just like the 1Dx. Go away SD!

The price is understandable.  With the D800, Nikon have forced their hand to release the 5Dx. They would have liked to have sold a metric tonne of 1Dx before announcing the 5Dx but it's too late - the 5Dx has to come out. As they don't want too many potential 1Dx buyers to defect to 5Dx, they are upping the price of the 5Dx to dissuade them, and if they do go to 5Dx, they'll at least get a fair profit from these people. It's priced higher than the D800 but not *too* high to cause Canon users to switch, and they'll trumpet better features.  New users might go the Nikon though if it's too much of a price premium.

Once the 1Dx has been out for say 6 months, then Canon will drop the price of the 5Dx to really start to compete with the D800, rather than be high to dissuade 1Dx users and gouge the early adopters (like me).

I might still see value in this 5Dx  *if* it has great weather sealing, high frame rates, and other pro features.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 07:12:06 PM by Gcon »

Neeneko

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #152 on: February 22, 2012, 07:12:40 PM »
$3500 rumor price could be anything real price...

Quite true, and I would not be surprised if it was lower.  Just going over why people are reacting the way they are, at least in part.

Though personally, I am mostly hoping that whatever it is, it pushes down the used market prices for some of the current gen bodies.  I would love to see the 1Ds3 down in my price range for instance.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #153 on: February 22, 2012, 07:13:38 PM »
With that logic, I want a 10,000 sqft house, but i dont want to spend the millions it costs on it.  I dont want a preowned home....

If i can only afford a 3000sqft home then thats what I buy. Everyone wants more for nothing. This price is great considering the improvements. If you cant afford it, there are other cameras to buy.

I think in general people are willing to pay more for significant improvements.. but this represents a significant price increase for not much gain, then discontinuing of the old model.  This raises the threshold of getting a FF camera from Canon, which will also effect what the used market will look like since fewer people are going to drop the extra cash for a camera that seems overpriced compared to the value of its predecessor.

Granted, some people are really excited about the new AF and see that as worth it.. others.. not so much.  It kinda seems like the only significant improvement listed which means if AF is not on your list of needs, it isn't very much.

In addition to hopefully full 1DX what if it has:

vastly better video with no moire/aliasing/full RGB per pixel/much better SNR

7fps vs 4fps (although if you don;t care about the better AF you prob don't care about this either, granted)

those aren't minor things by any means

and we could hope it also has:
2.5 stops better usable DR at ISO100 (although I have doubts, but to match Nikon it would basically need this)
2/3 stop better SNR


psolberg

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #154 on: February 22, 2012, 07:14:08 PM »
Quote
So, there's your first marketing gem. The D800 video is what?

has video too. uncompressed HDMI too. I hope the 5DIII has that as well as a headphone monitor both of which are glaring omissions on the 1DX. fps wise, unless canon can push 1080p60, it will be unlikely to have anything over the D800 then.

Quote
Nikon's AF system is what? Assuming the f8 feature will be sorted, the Nikon's will be trailing Canon in AF for the first time in a fair while - and you won't need a battery grip to get the extra FPS.

doubtful. same AF as the 1DX = no f/8. I wouldn't say nikon trails at all. A10 points difference isn't going to matter. plus we know how capable the AF in the nikons is and has proven itself time to time. canon still needs to prove itself so how can you tell?. At best they will be equal if canon puts it out of park. The nikon also focus down to -2EV which is an improvement over their prior gen and will really help it in low light. So lets give canon credit, but let's not deceive ourselves. They are not really surpassing nikon in any meaningful way.

Quote
How is Nikon's comparing to that? Oh it's not - it just bolts on the bottom and gives an extra few fps without and moulding for comfort? Damn, i thought you almost had me there!

I don't know if that's a killer feature the OP is talking about.  "The battery grip feels gripper" doesn't sound like a bullet point in marketing. But ok. I'll take your word for it. I've never held a D800 with a grip.

Quote
22mp FF - yeah i know, that's a bitch isn't it? Not as good as 36mp, i'll give you that. But hang on - at what cost? Maybe Canon have a more rounded offer in the wing?

Sepeculation about tomorrow doesn't sell cameras today. Nikon will have something else, Sony will have something else, Canon will have something else. who cares if you're buying today?

Let me tell you the real differentiator for canon since all you said is well, trivial. High ISO will be better on the canon because of the low MP count and FPS will be better. However one has to wonder the wisdom of that because it looks the 5DIII competes better with the 1DX than the D800 which from the start decided not to be an action/sports body. Canon however can exploit that gap in nikon's lineup....assuming nikon doesn't fill it in with a full frame D400/D800s. THAT'S the "killer" feature for canon. In other words, nikon swapped places with canon in this segment. Canon now has the speed demon. Nikon has the studio/landscape body. Both should gain market although I think the fact canon isn't the only video capable body this time (remember D700 had no video at all) will certainly level the field.

Axilrod

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #155 on: February 22, 2012, 07:16:43 PM »

This is what I don't get....

Thinking of all the forum topics about the mkiii rumored specs and expectations - If i were a canon marketing rep reading all this and reporting back to canon with the header title of - "this is what people want," then this spec list is right on target!

behold (taken from http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,3249.0.html-
High MP (30-36mp) body with price to match $3k                                         35 (15.1%)
Hi DR;  mid MP (21-24mp) body with improved AF priced $2.5-3k     95 (40.9%)
Hi DR lower MP (18-21mp) body with great ISO priced $2300 -$2500          40 (17.2%)
Mini/crippled  1Dx @ $3000                                                                           23 (9.9%)
Awin's Shove it in Nikon's face 40MP+ monster priced at $3k                       39 (16.8%

Now the specs we see today are potentially better what was asked for.  Most of the responses said such things as,  just give me a better AF and I'll be fine.  If many of the other things are addressed (better DR, ISO, Weather sealing) then even more of a bonus. And there may be a few more bells and whistles in this beast that we don't know about.  Like another poster here said, how do they market this beast?  What will they be able to say that makes people draw their eyes from the d800?  Well, the above could very well turn into one add, you asked and we responded!  There are a lot of wedding photogs out there, and the 5d series is a mainstay in that trade - so i'd guess there are a few marketing campaigns ready to go...

With all that said, the cost is ugggggggg...but, remember this ---

While the d800 is $3000 - there is also the d800e at $3299....  $3300 is very close to $3500.

Regardless of whether or not $3500 is too much to you and others, there are still enough people willing to pay $3500 that I'm sure there will be a waiting list at first.  I know there are people that really wanted one, but if you can't afford something you can't afford it.  Canon makes plenty of other cameras that cost less than that, so if $3500 is too much then people can always get something else.  I

I dont get why people expect a bargain basement price on one of the most highly-anticipated cameras of all-time.  I mean I know everyone wants everything for as cheap as possible, but if I complained about everything I wanted but can't afford I would be bitching for the rest of my life. 
5DIII/5DII/Bunch of L's and ZE's, currently rearranging.

Axilrod

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #156 on: February 22, 2012, 07:19:28 PM »
I don't know if that's a killer feature the OP is talking about.  "The battery grip feels gripper" doesn't sound like a bullet point in marketing. But ok. I'll take your word for it. I've never held a D800 with a grip.

I suspect there may be a piece of information on the camera that Canon is keeping extremely quiet, kinda like when Apple did the whole iPad keynote and ended with "$499!" when everyone had been speculating it would be $999.
5DIII/5DII/Bunch of L's and ZE's, currently rearranging.

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #156 on: February 22, 2012, 07:19:28 PM »

JR

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #157 on: February 22, 2012, 07:22:10 PM »
This is very exciting, but like others in this thread I am anxious to also see the ISO performance of this new camera.  While it has a top graded AF system, if the ISO performance is more or less the same as the current 5D, I will have to look at the 1DX for an upgrade path.

I also wonder how much delays we will see between announcement date and availability..
1DX, 24mm f1.4L II, 35mm f1.4L, 50mm f1.2L, 85mm f1.2L II, 135mm f2L, 24-70mm f2.8L II, 70-200mm f2.8L IS II :  D800, D4, and a whole bunch of Nikon lenses

photochemist

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #158 on: February 22, 2012, 07:23:59 PM »
The specification listed are probably good for those in sports, action, photojournalist, and similar photography that want something similar to the 1DX without the high price tag. However, for us landscape photographers it really is not much of an improvement. I am not concerned about the price and am willing to pay a reasonable amount for a professional camera. However, since I don't care about fps, have never used video, and have good success with the 5D Mark II autofocus, I don't really see an improvement for my work. I would be willing to pay more for a higher MP camera with slightly improved autofocus and 4 fps. Unless there is another ff body coming soon, that was rumored earlier with these specifications, I will not upgrading my current 5d II. I will remain a Canon client anxiously awaiting a professional body designed for us landscape photographers.

psolberg

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #159 on: February 22, 2012, 07:24:58 PM »
I pre-ordered a D800 but I think the Canon 5D3's gonna be a very nice camera. Nikon and Canon can do great things. Buy the one you're the most interest. And stop arguing... They are company who want to make money, that's all. That's the society.

well said sir. 2/3's of the people in this thread are more worried about how will they look next to a guy shooting with a D800 than what the 5DIII can do for them. seriously are you guys that insecure? I couldn't care less about the D800 because it isn't what I'm looking for. Likewise I'm sure D800 shooters couldn't care less about the 5DIII if they are bying the nikon for its strenghts. get over it, there is no king of all cameras. the 5DII wasn't perfect either.

tjc320

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #160 on: February 22, 2012, 07:28:00 PM »
My opinion:

The video functions in the 5D and 7D really created a huge demand for them that may not have been expected when they were first released...at least respectively. I'm from the video world and am seeing over half my peers using a Canon DSLR. Now, I know that the 5D's #1 goal is to be a great photography camera BUT there is no denying it's impact it has had on the video community. I think if the next 5D continues to push the envelope with its video functionality then I believe it may be worth the $3,500.

If it beats out the competition in both photography and video functionality it will be worth that extra $500.

ksieb

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #161 on: February 22, 2012, 07:33:52 PM »
Im only doing video with the mark 2, I own a t2-i and only used it for the 60 FPS.. .the only upgrate i want is a flip screen like the 60D and 60 FPS @ 1080P

canartist

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #162 on: February 22, 2012, 07:34:56 PM »
Now....at $3500, all I can say is it better have the 1Dx AF and metering, along with some decent weather sealing and the same kind of optional modules as the 1Dx.

I doubt it. History tells us how aggressively canon protected their 1D series, especially AF and build quality. In canon's world Top of the line AF belongs to 1D series. Period.

Even when d700 with pro AF was released, canon did not want to offer its pro AF to 5D series, instead they sacrificed their 21mp sensor, and  dumbed the AF.  as per Masaya Maeda, nobody complained about 5d AF.

Even in 1DX, HDMI output was crippled to protect their video cameras.

So i guess the new 5d may have dumbed down AF from 1Dx with fewer af points, no f8 focus, no pro weather sealing but "7D like weather proofing", FPS which won't threaten 1DX.

To canon's advantage, target market already has canon lenses, flash, tc etc.


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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #162 on: February 22, 2012, 07:34:56 PM »

GL

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #163 on: February 22, 2012, 07:35:16 PM »
If the specs are spot-on, price is not an issue. $3500 is approximately the profit before tax from a wedding, so 2-3 weddings should cover the cost of two bodies + extras.

My wish list (for the past few years) - better AF, better ISO (+1 stop RAW over 5D2), dual card slots. This camera hits all three, plus gravy. I can see a high percentage of wedding photographers/videographers selling their 5D2's and buying two or more of these for the next 3-4 years.

If the FPS rumours are correct, I can see a high number of sports togs upgrading as well. Landscape togs should be more than happy with 22MP, and if DR is improved, even more so. It doesn't matter what the D800 can do - pros invested in canon glass and workflow will not want to switch systems, and this camera will keep them loyal for years.

Thanks Canon :)

BXL

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #164 on: February 22, 2012, 07:36:10 PM »
Though if I was Canon I would brand a 5d like body with superior autofocus a different name other than 5D like they did with the 7d to prevent confusion and better justify the price increase. I would keep the 5d/3 line a high megapixel like the Nikon D800 but with a lackluster autofocus and improved dynamic range for studio/landscape work required for large prints.
So we get the high performance 3D (5DX) and the 5DII will be replaced in a couple of months with a slightly improved 5DIII that keeps the crappy AF, low fps and will have a lighter polycarbonate instead of the magnesium alloy construction? If the price is right (~ $1999/€1999), this might be an interesting alternative.

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #164 on: February 22, 2012, 07:36:10 PM »