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Author Topic: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]  (Read 183313 times)

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #165 on: February 22, 2012, 07:36:34 PM »
Now....at $3500, all I can say is it better have the 1Dx AF and metering, along with some decent weather sealing and the same kind of optional modules as the 1Dx.

I doubt it. History tells us how aggressively canon protected their 1D series, especially AF and build quality. In canon's world Top of the line AF belongs to 1D series. Period.

Even when d700 with pro AF was released, canon did not want to offer its pro AF to 5D series, instead they sacrificed their 21mp sensor, and  dumbed the AF.  as per Masaya Maeda, nobody complained about 5d AF.

Even in 1DX, HDMI output was crippled to protect their video cameras.

So i guess the new 5d may have dumbed down AF from 1Dx with fewer af points, no f8 focus, no pro weather sealing but "7D like weather proofing", FPS which won't threaten 1DX.

To canon's advantage, target market already has canon lenses, flash, tc etc.

You may be correct, in part (it is already CR3 for 61 AF pts though so you are wrong about them removing points) but if so, I think they are in trouble. D800 would make it look silly, especially costing $500 less, if they gave it a crippled 1DX AF and low fps.

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #165 on: February 22, 2012, 07:36:34 PM »

Smith

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #166 on: February 22, 2012, 07:37:38 PM »
Here's some additional thoughts regarding the $3500 price

1) The AF may have a dedicated DIGIC4 processor like the 1DX.

2) The built in radio to communicate with the new 590EX flash would great progress. TTL and hypersync capabilities off camera without having to use expensive Pocketwizard solutions.

3) Canon hasn't set the exact price yet. It might come in at $3400 and retailers may discount further from there. Canon may also offer rebates if you purchase with the 590EX or other lenses. Retailers may also discount to adjust for competition. Nikon has issued a new policy so that no discounting is allowed. Thus they must launch at a reasonable price.

tjc320

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #167 on: February 22, 2012, 07:38:56 PM »
HOW ABOUT A 4K VIDEO to justify the price, given how popular the 5dII was among filmmakers.

I think it's happening.  8)

Wont happen, it would eat up the sales of the 4K Cinema DSLR and that's definitely going to be a more expensive camera.  I'm sure it will have improved video, hopefully reduced moire and less banding, no rolling shutter.  All of that seems possible considering video on the 5DII was an afterthought.

You don't think that a 5D X is the 4K Cinema DSLR that they were referring to? If they split the 5D line I can see one of them being more video orientated. I'm just spewing opinions but I'm really hoping for large video improvements since that's my profession. Especially if they want to keep Nikon out of the video market.

I don't agree that it would eat out of the C300 market. The people buying them are out of completely different ponds. The C300 well makes up for it's price in it's features and functionality alone. Even if they were both 4K I'm sure they wouldn't be the same quality. Professional shoots demand convenience in order to save time and shooting with a DSLR certainly isn't convenient.

Hollywood is using footage from 5DMIIs all the time! They are essentially disposable cameras. The problem is that they aren't 4K. Theaters project a 4K image and if they provided that Hollywood would be all over it. Action films would eat them for breakfast.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 07:52:56 PM by tjc320 »

zim

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #168 on: February 22, 2012, 07:46:39 PM »
With this CR3 does that mean an end to the high mp version rumour? and does this suggest no response to the (E)? Don’t need the higher mp’s myself, just asking, but no reaction to the d800e I find more interesting.

If high iso raw is better than current mkii then these base specs (without the detail) look favourable to the d800 to me.

As for the price, rumoured to be around $3500 which is £2235 the D800 pre-order at warehouse express is £2399.00 so apart from the uk vat man am I missing something here?

Looking forward to seeing the raw iso comparisons, hope we don't have to wait to long for them!

djw

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #169 on: February 22, 2012, 07:47:35 PM »
Anyone heard of 'anchor pricing' - the idea is to establish the idea of a price in someone's head (whether they can afford it or not). Then discount it. People think the vendor is doing them a huge favour. If I were Canon, I would be seeding these rumours into the market in just the way we have seen today, and everyone is "ooh, can I afford it, ouch", etc. Then announce it next week at say $3000 or $3200, and everyone thinks - "wow what a bargain!". Maybe they are right, and it is a bargain. But for me, just like with eBay purchases, the only thing that matters is 'is it worth it' not how much it has been discounted or what the exchange rate is...

I agree with BillyBean's anchor pricing comment.

Everyone here seems to want a 5D replacement but there are the "$3500 is OK" and the "my max. is $3000" camps. Imagine how many will 'pull the trigger' if the final RRP is closer to $3300? -- esp. if Canon announce: weather sealing, clean HDMI and user-selectable AA filter ;-)

canartist

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #170 on: February 22, 2012, 07:53:06 PM »
D800 would make it look silly, especially costing $500 less, if they gave it a crippled 1DX AF and low fps.

But how many would switch camps for $500? 

Traditionally nikon offered maximum features within the given price point, whereas canon offered features to stay competitive within the price point. They even to went to the level of bringing down 60d to allow room for premium on 7d. Nothing wrong with that. It is just marketing and both companies have different ways to differentiate product lines.

zim

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #171 on: February 22, 2012, 07:54:36 PM »
user-selectable AA  :o :o :o

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #171 on: February 22, 2012, 07:54:36 PM »

psolberg

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #172 on: February 22, 2012, 07:55:32 PM »
HOW ABOUT A 4K VIDEO to justify the price, given how popular the 5dII was among filmmakers.

I think it's happening.  8)

Wont happen, it would eat up the sales of the 4K Cinema DSLR and that's definitely going to be a more expensive camera.  I'm sure it will have improved video, hopefully reduced moire and less banding, no rolling shutter.  All of that seems possible considering video on the 5DII was an afterthought.

You don't think that a 5D X is the 4K Cinema DSLR that they were referring to? If they split the 5D line I can see one of them being more video orientated. I'm just spewing opinions but I'm really hoping for large video improvements since that's my profession. Especially if they want to keep Nikon out of the video market.

I don't agree that it would eat out of the C300 market. The people buying them are out of completely different ponds. The C300 well makes up for it's price in it's features and functionality alone. Even if they were both 4K I'm sure they wouldn't be the same quality. Professional shoots demand convenience in order to save time and shooting with a DSLR certainly isn't convenient.

Hollywood is using footage from 5DMIIs all the time! They are essentially disposable cameras. The problem is that they aren't 4K. Theaters project a 4K image and if they provided that Hollywood would be all over it. Action films would eat them for breakfast.

doubt it. the 1DX can't do 4K. The C300 can't do 4K. this won't do it either. This is a still pictures camera that shoots video. This is not a video camera that shoots stills. subtle difference, yet it is critical.

Quote
But how many would switch camps for $500? 

nobody. but if you're considering switching you're already admitting the canon isn't for you. Being more expensive isn't going to help it. 3.5K isn't terrible. Look at that 24-70 II. lacks IS and it is a truckload of money more expensive.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 07:58:13 PM by psolberg »

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #173 on: February 22, 2012, 07:56:36 PM »
I'm okay with the specs, but I think everyone's situation varies.

I'm primarily landscapes, adventure sports, low-light events.  Not pro - but working that direction long-term.  I got a 7D last year because I just was not going to buy a 3-4 year old 5D.  Now in hindsight I probably would have enjoyed the 5DMarkII for landscape; but I am sure the reported AF issues would have crushed me on sports and events.

About anything 5D and in particular the new 5D with these specs will be an improvement.  I have been debating the whole high MP thing  5DIII vs 5DX - and really I think it is best to wait a generation before leaping into high Megapixel ranges.  As nice as 36 MP is, I am seeing noise in the Nikon D800 samples.  Its the same kind of noise I see in the 7D.  So I dont need to trade noise at Crop for noise on Full Frame.  If the 5D-whatever gives me a cleaner IQ, more dynamic range, higher ISO image - I say bring it on.

My only wish-for in the specs was that it was more like 26-28 MP.  But in the math, that really is not much bigger. 

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #174 on: February 22, 2012, 07:57:01 PM »
With this CR3 does that mean an end to the high mp version rumour? and does this suggest no response to the (E)? Don’t need the higher mp’s myself, just asking, but no reaction to the d800e I find more interesting.

If high iso raw is better than current mkii then these base specs (without the detail) look favourable to the d800 to me.

As for the price, rumoured to be around $3500 which is £2235 the D800 pre-order at warehouse express is £2399.00 so apart from the uk vat man am I missing something here?

Looking forward to seeing the raw iso comparisons, hope we don't have to wait to long for them!

... Again: I very much doubt a price point of $3500 will end up being a UK price in line with a fair conversion rate. New tech in the UK usually comes in at $=£ or round about there. Down the line the price will drop, but we're talking 6-12 months after launch. I hope I'm proven wrong, but that's the way I've seen new tech being priced over here.
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Lee Jay

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #175 on: February 22, 2012, 07:59:45 PM »
Change it to 1.6 crop, f/8 AF sensors, and everything else the same for $1,700 and I might be in.  For this, I'll keep my 5D (not II).

That sounds more like a 7DII than a 5dmkiii

Right!

To sell me a 5DIII it would have to be something like 46MP with several still and video crop modes - and f/8 AF sensors.

ttmphotography

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #176 on: February 22, 2012, 08:00:32 PM »
I'm not really sure why everyone is hung up on what other cameras sold for when they were first announced.

The only thing I compare it to or care about is what is available and on the market TODAY as far as competition and what is that price TODAY.
So, for example a 5D mark II is about 2,100 new ebay or 2,400 new retail right now.
That is really what the mark III will need to compete with or show that it can outshine the mark II by $1,100 to $1,400
Forget what the yen is out now or was at 3 years ago, can the mark III be a viable product in the US now at a $3,500 price point?

In the case of the new ebay mark II it is a 66% increase.

Kind of the same as buying a new car, I go down and see what is new on the lot already (last years model) and when they announce the new 2012 is X price is it really worth spending that much more for the other new one sitting right next to it. If it has a bunch of upgrades then it's worth it possibly, but I really don't ask how much the one on the lot was priced at when it came out.

It's interesting to me that most things that are technical in nature like computers, monitors, etc... tend to get better every year and the price drops every year for the same features. I don't really understand why cameras don't fall in that realm, it's a shame isn't it?

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #177 on: February 22, 2012, 08:00:51 PM »
With a price of $3500 for the next 5D I actually don't believe that the 7D will be merged with the 5D. There is still enough room for a pro-grade APS-C Camera. Maybe the next 7D (II or X) will get some of the features of the rumored 5D as well. Like dual SD- and CF-Card, 61 points AF, more fps...
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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #177 on: February 22, 2012, 08:00:51 PM »

keithfullermusic

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #178 on: February 22, 2012, 08:02:09 PM »
D800 would make it look silly, especially costing $500 less, if they gave it a crippled 1DX AF and low fps.

But how many would switch camps for $500? 

Traditionally nikon offered maximum features within the given price point, whereas canon offered features to stay competitive within the price point. They even to went to the level of bringing down 60d to allow room for premium on 7d. Nothing wrong with that. It is just marketing and both companies have different ways to differentiate product lines.


I'm not going to switch, but $500 is a month's rent!!!
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zim

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #179 on: February 22, 2012, 08:04:43 PM »
With this CR3 does that mean an end to the high mp version rumour? and does this suggest no response to the (E)? Don’t need the higher mp’s myself, just asking, but no reaction to the d800e I find more interesting.

If high iso raw is better than current mkii then these base specs (without the detail) look favourable to the d800 to me.

As for the price, rumoured to be around $3500 which is £2235 the D800 pre-order at warehouse express is £2399.00 so apart from the uk vat man am I missing something here?

Looking forward to seeing the raw iso comparisons, hope we don't have to wait to long for them!

... Again: I very much doubt a price point of $3500 will end up being a UK price in line with a fair conversion rate. New tech in the UK usually comes in at $=£ or round about there. Down the line the price will drop, but we're talking 6-12 months after launch. I hope I'm proven wrong, but that's the way I've seen new tech being priced over here.

understand and unfortunatly you may well be right, I can wait!  :'(

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #179 on: February 22, 2012, 08:04:43 PM »