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Author Topic: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]  (Read 248003 times)

Steve Campbell

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #285 on: February 23, 2012, 07:49:06 AM »
No doubt this will be a nice camera. However, at $3500 for the body, my decision to grab a 5DII and a 24-105 kit last October for $2750 brand new is seeming like a better idea all the time. I picked up a mint, used 7D around the same time for $1100. Now I have an excellent full frame, a backup in the 7D that gives me advanced AF and fast FPS AND a very nice L lens. Plus I've been shooting all this gear for 5 months and enjoying. I have two buddies who did the same and they've produced some very nice images since then instead of sitting around waiting. And waiting.....

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #285 on: February 23, 2012, 07:49:06 AM »

traveller

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #286 on: February 23, 2012, 08:06:37 AM »
Behold. The time has come.
I'm just chuffed to comment first on what will no doubt go on for about 20 pages now...

First comment was definitely a CR3!

psolberg

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #287 on: February 23, 2012, 08:07:58 AM »
Quote
The problem with ultra-dense pixels like the D800 is that you need a lot faster shutter or better a tripod, to gain anything from those extra pixels. It's because the sensitivity to movements increases quite a lot - smaller movements can shift light falling onto one photosite into the adjacent photosites. So instead of your shutter speed rule being 1/focal length it becomes 1/2x(focal length).  The 7D also suffers from this. You need much faster shutter speeds on a 7D to get sharp images compared to a 5D and even the 5D2.

Is this true?? Wow I learnt something new today. Can this be substantiated with further recommended reading? Thx.

there is some truth to it. you don't have to increase shutter speed if you shoot steady, and IS can help a lot. But ultimately ALL cameras suffer from motion blur but the higher the resolution the more you'll see your flaws in technique. The higher resolution of the Nikon means you will have to have good support and technique to maximize your quality. This doesn't meant the camera is bad in any way. It just means you have to be better and mindful of what you're shoting with. However the D800 has one key advantage. If you did get careless and introduced motion blur at the pixel level, your image will not be any worse compared to what you'd get with a lower resolution camera once you resample it to that resolution. That's the benefit of high resolution. You can downsample when you goofed and will be greatly rewarded when you don't.

Ultimately I think the pros outweight the cons. Nikon themselves made a guide for their audience about how to maximize their gears potential....

http://www.nikonusa.com/en_US/o/Y6wrkA9OU_z04IreazIXl_22UII/PDF/D800_TechnicalGuide_En.pdf

It is a very novice guide, but it explains it from nothing. Lloyd Chambers has for guide (not free) that is superb.
http://makingsharpimages.com/
 Then again every person knows here that even with the best gear, if you lack technique, you'll just get garbage.

« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 08:11:22 AM by psolberg »

NotABunny

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #288 on: February 23, 2012, 08:15:06 AM »
Considering that the Euro price is going to be about the same but in euro, this camera better bake cookies as well.

(Even) If it it's up to my expectations, I'll have to abandon my plans to buy one of the new L lenses. A flash with a custom white balance is still on the table.

Himanshu

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #289 on: February 23, 2012, 08:21:26 AM »
Anyone heard of 'anchor pricing' - the idea is to establish the idea of a price in someone's head (whether they can afford it or not). Then discount it. People think the vendor is doing them a huge favour. If I were Canon, I would be seeding these rumours into the market in just the way we have seen today, and everyone is "ooh, can I afford it, ouch", etc. Then announce it next week at say $3000 or $3200, and everyone thinks - "wow what a bargain!". Maybe they are right, and it is a bargain. But for me, just like with eBay purchases, the only thing that matters is 'is it worth it' not how much it has been discounted or what the exchange rate is...

That sounds really smart and would for sure catch me!



Thats make a lot of sense. Thats what companies do on a regular basis infact. Exactly what Nikon did with the D800. There were rumors that the D800 would cost around $3500, and the D800E around $4000. Then they ended up pricing the D800 at $2999.95, and it suddenly started to look like it was such a great deal for that kind of a camera.

sublime LightWorks

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #290 on: February 23, 2012, 08:28:10 AM »
Everyone needs to understand the difference between LIST and STREET prices. The Canon 5D Mark II when released listed for US$2799, however (rebates/sales excluded) usually streets for about US$2499 (body only). Average price range for the 5D II can be anywhere from $2000 to as high as $4000 with an extended kit, factoring in rebates and sales.

Adjusting the original 2008 list price of $2799 for inflation through now in 2012, the list price would land squarely at $3000 adjusted. So the difference is not really $1500 for better AF and an extra megapixel (and probably a vastly improved sensor like the 1D X's)...the difference when you adjust for inflation is about $500...which is FAR, FAR more reasonable if you ask me, and certainly easier to swallow than a $6800 price tag for the 1D X.
Nice....but.....

That logic does not hold for the 1Dx pricing when you analyze the 1D4 and 1DsIII that it supposedly replaced.  Recalling, the 1D4 was $5000 list and the 1Ds3 was $9000 (or possibly higher), the average between the two is $7000+.  Given your cost of inflation, the price should be even higher than the $7k average here.

It's not....it's $6800, despite a couple of years after the 1D4 and several years after the 1Ds3.



K3nt

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #291 on: February 23, 2012, 08:36:04 AM »
I know this means I'll be working a bit more overtime to fund this bad boy for my upcoming travels later in the year. *quick calculations in head----mmm, yes... 6k total* Loads of dough, but manageable, I have 10 months time.  ;)
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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #291 on: February 23, 2012, 08:36:04 AM »

CowGummy

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #292 on: February 23, 2012, 08:36:36 AM »
Behold. The time has come.
I'm just chuffed to comment first on what will no doubt go on for about 20 pages now...

First comment was definitely a CR3!

Not even 24 hours since CRGuy posted this and we're already on page 21!
5DmkII   |  50 f/1.4  |  24-105L f/4  |  135L f/2  |  70-200L f/2.8 IS II  |  430exII

tt

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #293 on: February 23, 2012, 08:38:59 AM »
Canon seems to be meeting distributors in the UK for more info regarding this.

Might be worth checking your UK Canon supplier regarding their preorder list - and in the uk getting some info or a name on the list before Focus in March.

jbwise01

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #294 on: February 23, 2012, 08:42:54 AM »
It all comes down to competitiveness. If canon really thinks that people will switch to to Nikon because of price, they will most certainly drop the price. Based on what Nikon sells the d800 to distributors for, around $2690 USD, you would think that Nikon is clearly being aggressive with its initial price point on the d800 at $2999. It was mentioned earlier that canon could also be releasing some higher pricing info to stir things up a little bit. If everyone thinks the price should be $2799 then all of a sudden canon comes out with "around $3500" it will make people think less about the initial price if it comes out at $2899, everyone will start talking about how huge of a deal it is, and canon will also slap Nikon in the face with a dslr that will undercut them once again, growing their lens buying consumer base and broadening their market share.

jbwise01

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #295 on: February 23, 2012, 08:55:36 AM »
One other thing that has been bugging me, all those out there talking about the d800 and the high MP problems, all that can be addressed by simply shooting in RAW-M ( 5,520 x 3,680 = 20.3 MP) that would basically give you a close match to the current 5dII. I think the d800 is intriguing bc you CAN shoot up to 36 mp if you need too, but for most walk around shooting you will be able to shoot at RAW-M 20.3 mp or even RAW-S at 9 MP and get great results with the enhanced metering features and af.

crunchy

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #296 on: February 23, 2012, 09:16:41 AM »
One other thing that has been bugging me, all those out there talking about the d800 and the high MP problems, all that can be addressed by simply shooting in RAW-M ( 5,520 x 3,680 = 20.3 MP) that would basically give you a close match to the current 5dII. I think the d800 is intriguing bc you CAN shoot up to 36 mp if you need too, but for most walk around shooting you will be able to shoot at RAW-M 20.3 mp or even RAW-S at 9 MP and get great results with the enhanced metering features and af.
The downsized raw modes aren't making full use of the sensor, however we are all assuming that the megapickle monster will have inferior IQ. From what I've seen, the IQ and high ISO of the D800 is nothing short of staggering. NR has a comparison of high ISO between the D700 and D800.

The 5D3 has some very strong competition.

If only Nikon's lens lineup was as impressive as canon's...

K-amps

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #297 on: February 23, 2012, 09:21:48 AM »
The 5D was released October 2005 for $3299USD.  Adjusted for inflation that's $3828.82 today ( http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Calculators/Inflation_Rate_Calculator.asp ) .

Kool, I remember seeing the pioneer plasma for $10k years ago. I guess we should adjust it for inflation as well.

If you could be a couple of notches less abrasive, It would be great, as it is, it is hard to fault you on some of your assertions. In light of free speech and diversification of thought on this forum, I feel you add value and balance here. Canon needs to hear both camp, the fans and the realists... to attain a balanced perspective.

+1 on the argument above, I too feel the R&D costs have been sunk already, technology costs are going down every year (not every 3.5 years  ;) ); They should be able to offe rthe 5d3 at $USD 2.2-2.4k. In fact if I were them, I'd offer it at $1900, and make money from all the EF lenses I'd be selling....
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Pentax D-FA 15-30 F2.8 & 28-105mm

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #297 on: February 23, 2012, 09:21:48 AM »

Jackson_Bill

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #298 on: February 23, 2012, 09:26:05 AM »
Bummer, if I didn't have so much invested in Canon lenses I'd be buying a Nikon D800 now.

Grum

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #299 on: February 23, 2012, 09:31:48 AM »
Can't believe everyone is getting so upset over a rumoured price. This is pretty much the exact spec I would like for a camera (shooting mostly weddings but also a bit of sports, live music, landscapes, etc etc). Not sure I'll be able to justify it for a little while yet.

Hope the high ISO is spectacular though - I often find myself shooting at high ISOs or pushing RAW files quite a way.

I really wonder how many people going on about the 36MP on a D800 would ever really make much use of it. Shot any ads to go on the side of buildings lately? Yes I know it helps with cropping and then making big prints, but I've made a beautiful looking 30"x20" print off a cropped shot on my 12MP Panasonic G1.

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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #299 on: February 23, 2012, 09:31:48 AM »