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Author Topic: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]  (Read 247669 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #690 on: February 28, 2012, 06:47:48 AM »
(Which is apparent when people wonder how well lenses may deal with a 36mp FF Nikon sensor...despite the fact that its less dense than the 18mp Canon APS-C.)

Fine, but don't forget that while the resolving power of a sensor does not vary spatially across the surface, the resolving power of a lens varies across the image circle, being highest in the center and lowest at the periphery.  So...I think that being concerned about how lenses will deal with a higher density FF sensor, even if not as high a density as current APS-C sensors, is valid given that the APS-C sensor is 'seeing' only the higher-resolving portion of the image circle, whereas the corners of the FF sensor extend to the edges of the image circle where lens performance is worst.  Not going to matter much for a 300/2.8, but for a 17-40mm, which is already getting mushy at the corners on the 5DII...

And what about a flash? Is nobody curently using a mark II missing the little popup flash?

I don't miss it.  Well, that's not true.  Sometimes, I get nostalgic and I miss that 'deer-in-headlights' look that an onboard flash provides, the harsh light and red-eye that a pop-up flash delivers so well.  But mostly, no, I don't miss it at all. 
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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #690 on: February 28, 2012, 06:47:48 AM »

dedrick427

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #691 on: February 28, 2012, 06:55:45 AM »
I've taped down the pop-up flash on my SX200is.  Though it is nice to have sometimes, it's not concerning enough for me to care eitherway.  I just know I've set aside the money for a 5D Mark II and I'm dying of anxiety to see the Mark III.  I almost got impatient and bought the Mark II... just... need... to calm down...

Abraxx

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #692 on: February 28, 2012, 08:32:28 AM »
"Everybody" is so concerned about MP, AF, weather sealing, Flash.

I rather want to know how the final performance of the mark III regarding DR will be....

my 2 cents :)
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ramon123

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #693 on: February 28, 2012, 08:46:12 AM »
due to no press invites shown yet and relative quiet... should we start worrying that the 5D3 wont' be announced on March 2nd?

K-amps

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #694 on: February 28, 2012, 09:28:24 AM »
"Everybody" is so concerned about MP, AF, weather sealing, Flash.

I rather want to know how the final performance of the mark III regarding DR will be....

my 2 cents :)

Applauded: You are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else.  :)
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jalbfb

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #695 on: February 28, 2012, 09:46:17 AM »
due to no press invites shown yet and relative quiet... should we start worrying that the 5D3 wont' be announced on March 2nd?
 
I don't know.  CR seems pretty certain that March 2 is the day.  But then again so was Feb 28.  I'm still betting that Mar 2 will be it despite the press invite thing.  Has anyone on here who is privy to Canon press release got anything to add?
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CanineCandidsByL

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #696 on: February 28, 2012, 10:15:12 AM »

I wouldn't buy the MkIII if it had  popup flash (which thankfully it doesn't).
[/quote]

Alright, I'll bite.  Why not?
Most cameras have something you wouldn't use, so why would this be a deal killer?  Keep in mind, that a popup on a camera like this could almost certainly be used as a communication flash to trigger other flashes, and wouldn't necessarily be used as a functional flash.  Even if it contains an RF device to trigger the 590 (if it has RF), we won't all be upgrading our current flashes right away.

And lastly, a popup is always there...just in case.  Its almost always better, IMO, to get a bad picture than no picture.

Thanks!

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #696 on: February 28, 2012, 10:15:12 AM »

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #697 on: February 28, 2012, 10:31:55 AM »
There is no "one size fits all" in the end. The Nikonians themselves are divided over the best resolution for the D800(E).

[NR] Poll: Nikon D800 with 36MP or with 16MP sensor?

It's extremely hard for any company to please everyone. When the 7D specs were first revealed, many complained that the 18MP was too much and will affect the ISO performance. I personally don't use all the resolution the 7D has to offer but I'm fine with its low-light capabilities. So now when Canon decided to go the other way, they are again criticized for falling behind competition with their MP count.

In the end, there is no right or wrong. A company will not release any product without thorough market research. If Canon ended up releasing a 22MP 5DIII, this must have been what their market research indicated they should do. Whether it's a right or wrong move remains to be seen. Who knows, maybe an MP monster is also in the making.

I realize that studio photographers (and maybe wild life ones) would like to see a camera with the biggest MP they could possibly get. One has to ask what percentage of Canon's potential sales does this segment make. If the bread and butter is somewhere else, that's what Canon would naturally focus on. As a publicly-traded company, Canon has the responsibility of maximizing their shareholders' value by pursuing what the company perceives as the most profitable venture.

No one should be emotionally invested in a company (unless they own a huge share of it :P). I may or may not like certain decisions a company makes. If I'm highly dissatisfied, I can just take my business elsewhere. I can complain and say "the company doesn't get it" (and I may or might not be right in that regard). If enough people started complaining, the company should/would start to notice. Hmm, isn't that what actually happened with the MP and, if the specs are true, the AF? We can argue that Canon has actually listened to what their customer want in one regard. The price, as other mentioned, will be set by the market. If people perceived value in the company's offering, they will buy it. Otherwise, the product will just sit on the shelves. Remember how the price of 50D dropped quickly shortly after introduction because of the fierce competition from the D300? If people perceived that the better value is offered by the D800(E), they will just buy that and Canon will be forced to lower the price of the 5DIII in order to entice more customers to buy.

Personally, I'm completely satisfied with the the rumored specs of the 5DIII; not so much the rumored price. I will wait for the second patch to give Canon the time needed to correct any issues (remember the black dots in the 5D2?) and allow the price to drop a bit. Nikon makes wonderful cameras but I currently prefer the Canon system as a whole. Others may agree or disagree with my stance and they are free to do so. I'm sure each has his/her reasons.

That said, I appreciate all the technical details and discussions everyone brings to the table. We all should take these with a sense of humor and openness. There is no need to question other people's ethics or call them names. Just be cool and carry on  ;D

An interesting quote:

"If  you attack people's opinions, many react like addicts" -  Bernie Siegel

+1!
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kubelik

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #698 on: February 28, 2012, 11:30:57 AM »
Musouka, you've captured exactly how I feel about the 5D Mark III.  Thank you for observing the fact that Canon has indeed been giving us most of the things that 5D Mark II users clamored for over the last few years.  Too often, when a product is announced, we tend to nitpick at the items on our personal wishlists that weren't incorporated into a product, rather than seeing all the pieces that were integrated into a product.

I know you state you're not thrilled with the price (and that's understandable, no one - and I mean no one - wants to shell out more money if they can avoid it).  But, to put it in perspective, we used to have to drop $5K in order to get our hands on Canon's pro AF (on a cropped sensor, no less).  Now they're releasing a product with the pro AF at a projected $3.5K ... and we're complaining that Canon is stiffing us.  Personally, I'll be waiting for rebates to kick in (and yes, perhaps a slight price shift due to the pricing on the D800); if the 5D Mark III's price ticks downward to $3200 or $3300 it will sell unbelievably well.

Cinnamon

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #699 on: February 28, 2012, 11:42:51 AM »
People's views of pop-up flashes are somewhat misguided. As a professional photographer who owns numerous 580 EX II's and a ton of other lighting equipment, I almost never use the pop-up flash on my 7D...but I have on several occasions found myself wishing I had a pop-up flash on my 5D Mark II. Just by having one, it doesn't mean you have to use it...but by not having it, you don't have the option to, should the need arise. If and when those rare situations come up, it is convenient to have a built-in flash.

You can't always shoot on a tripod or in a studio, and if you don't have your external flash on your camera at that moment, you can miss an important shot. Again, pop-up flash is not ideal, but I wouldn't avoid a camera simply because it has one! While the lighting is harsh and does give a "deer in the headlights" look, I'd rather have a bad photo than no photo at all. This is like when people say that high ISO is useless...obviously noisy high ISO shots aren't ideal, but if and when you absolutely need to capture a shot, it is invaluable.

ageha

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #700 on: February 28, 2012, 12:29:40 PM »
People's views of pop-up flashes are somewhat misguided. As a professional photographer who owns numerous 580 EX II's and a ton of other lighting equipment, I almost never use the pop-up flash on my 7D...but I have on several occasions found myself wishing I had a pop-up flash on my 5D Mark II. Just by having one, it doesn't mean you have to use it...but by not having it, you don't have the option to, should the need arise. If and when those rare situations come up, it is convenient to have a built-in flash.

You can't always shoot on a tripod or in a studio, and if you don't have your external flash on your camera at that moment, you can miss an important shot. Again, pop-up flash is not ideal, but I wouldn't avoid a camera simply because it has one! While the lighting is harsh and does give a "deer in the headlights" look, I'd rather have a bad photo than no photo at all. This is like when people say that high ISO is useless...obviously noisy high ISO shots aren't ideal, but if and when you absolutely need to capture a shot, it is invaluable.
1+

jrista

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #701 on: February 28, 2012, 01:42:53 PM »
(Which is apparent when people wonder how well lenses may deal with a 36mp FF Nikon sensor...despite the fact that its less dense than the 18mp Canon APS-C.)

Fine, but don't forget that while the resolving power of a sensor does not vary spatially across the surface, the resolving power of a lens varies across the image circle, being highest in the center and lowest at the periphery.  So...I think that being concerned about how lenses will deal with a higher density FF sensor, even if not as high a density as current APS-C sensors, is valid given that the APS-C sensor is 'seeing' only the higher-resolving portion of the image circle, whereas the corners of the FF sensor extend to the edges of the image circle where lens performance is worst.  Not going to matter much for a 300/2.8, but for a 17-40mm, which is already getting mushy at the corners on the 5DII...

Certainly, and its a point I try to touch on when I can. I think I've mentioned a few times that I'm referring to lens-center resolution. Its more difficult to evaluate corner sharpness, as falloff curves vary widely across Canon's lens lineup (across any lens lineup.) Falloff is often not linear by any means either. Whey I say that there are only a few Canon lenses that approach perfection, I mean center-to-edge resolution is nearly perfect. I think the only two lenses I've seen that solidly exhibit near-perfect replication accuracy center-to-edge (at least theoretically...I have not yet seen real MTF's for these lenses) are the yet to be released 500mm L II and 600mm L II. The 300 f/2.8 L may be another one, possibly the 70-200 f/2.8 L II (contrast seems great to edge, but sharpness does fall off a bit more), and I'd have to do some digging to see if there are any more...there are not many. Most Canon lenses do very well in the center, but some of the best fall off terribly in the corners. The original 16-35 L had atrocious corner sharpness and contrast vs. its excellent center sharpness, and even the Mark II version has less than stellar corner performance. I believe one of the reasons Canon is upgrading their line of lenses lately is to improve resolution characteristics across the board. It makes sense, for the very reasons you've stated...center-to-edge has to improve across the board to accommodate higher density sensors, particularly larger sensor formats.

neuroanatomist

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #702 on: February 28, 2012, 01:55:29 PM »
...if you don't have your external flash on your camera at that moment, you can miss an important shot. Again, pop-up flash is not ideal, but I wouldn't avoid a camera simply because it has one! While the lighting is harsh and does give a "deer in the headlights" look, I'd rather have a bad photo than no photo at all.

I agree with the sentiment.  But from a practical perspective, if the 5DII had a pop-up flash, the additional protrusion necessary for that would be a major annoyance when using TS-E lenses, just like it is when I try to use one on my 7D.

...we used to have to drop $5K in order to get our hands on Canon's pro AF (on a cropped sensor, no less).  Now they're releasing a product with the pro AF at a projected $3.5K ...

So, Canon has announced the spec for the 5DIII's AF system?  I must have missed that...  Even if it has the same number of points as the 1D X (and even that is still a rumor), that doesn't mean it's 'pro AF'.  I hope that's what it means, yes, but I'm not holding my breath - the 1-series AF is about more than the number of points.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 01:58:59 PM by neuroanatomist »
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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #702 on: February 28, 2012, 01:55:29 PM »

x-vision

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #703 on: February 28, 2012, 02:14:46 PM »
There is no "one size fits all" in the end. The Nikonians themselves are divided over the best resolution for the D800(E).

...

I realize that studio photographers (and maybe wild life ones) would like to see a camera with the biggest MP they could possibly get. One has to ask what percentage of Canon's potential sales does this segment make. If the bread and butter is somewhere else, that's what Canon would naturally focus on.

What a sensible post. Agree 100%.

It should be quite clear by now that there is no "one size fits all" when it comes to these high-end cameras.
So, by trying to hit a sweet spot, Canon and Nikon will inevitably anger a certain number of users.

I also think that the rumored specs of the 5DIII are fantastic and I truly hope that the rumored $3500 price is the kit price, not the body-only price.
With these specs and the right price, I have no doubts that the 5DIII will be another great success for Canon.

kubelik

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #704 on: February 28, 2012, 02:16:48 PM »
...we used to have to drop $5K in order to get our hands on Canon's pro AF (on a cropped sensor, no less).  Now they're releasing a product with the pro AF at a projected $3.5K ...

So, Canon has announced the spec for the 5DIII's AF system?  I must have missed that...  Even if it has the same number of points as the 1D X (and even that is still a rumor), that doesn't mean it's 'pro AF'.  I hope that's what it means, yes, but I'm not holding my breath - the 1-series AF is about more than the number of points.

sure, neuro, we're dealing with rumors here.  but I'm addressing people's complaints about a rumor, so I figured taking the content of a rumor at face value is acceptable and even necessary if we're going to have it be a point of discussion.  if the rumors aren't valid points of discussion, what are any of us doing here?

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #704 on: February 28, 2012, 02:16:48 PM »