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Author Topic: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]  (Read 188306 times)

Cinnamon

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #705 on: February 28, 2012, 11:42:51 AM »
People's views of pop-up flashes are somewhat misguided. As a professional photographer who owns numerous 580 EX II's and a ton of other lighting equipment, I almost never use the pop-up flash on my 7D...but I have on several occasions found myself wishing I had a pop-up flash on my 5D Mark II. Just by having one, it doesn't mean you have to use it...but by not having it, you don't have the option to, should the need arise. If and when those rare situations come up, it is convenient to have a built-in flash.

You can't always shoot on a tripod or in a studio, and if you don't have your external flash on your camera at that moment, you can miss an important shot. Again, pop-up flash is not ideal, but I wouldn't avoid a camera simply because it has one! While the lighting is harsh and does give a "deer in the headlights" look, I'd rather have a bad photo than no photo at all. This is like when people say that high ISO is useless...obviously noisy high ISO shots aren't ideal, but if and when you absolutely need to capture a shot, it is invaluable.

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #705 on: February 28, 2012, 11:42:51 AM »

ageha

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #706 on: February 28, 2012, 12:29:40 PM »
People's views of pop-up flashes are somewhat misguided. As a professional photographer who owns numerous 580 EX II's and a ton of other lighting equipment, I almost never use the pop-up flash on my 7D...but I have on several occasions found myself wishing I had a pop-up flash on my 5D Mark II. Just by having one, it doesn't mean you have to use it...but by not having it, you don't have the option to, should the need arise. If and when those rare situations come up, it is convenient to have a built-in flash.

You can't always shoot on a tripod or in a studio, and if you don't have your external flash on your camera at that moment, you can miss an important shot. Again, pop-up flash is not ideal, but I wouldn't avoid a camera simply because it has one! While the lighting is harsh and does give a "deer in the headlights" look, I'd rather have a bad photo than no photo at all. This is like when people say that high ISO is useless...obviously noisy high ISO shots aren't ideal, but if and when you absolutely need to capture a shot, it is invaluable.
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jrista

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #707 on: February 28, 2012, 01:42:53 PM »
(Which is apparent when people wonder how well lenses may deal with a 36mp FF Nikon sensor...despite the fact that its less dense than the 18mp Canon APS-C.)

Fine, but don't forget that while the resolving power of a sensor does not vary spatially across the surface, the resolving power of a lens varies across the image circle, being highest in the center and lowest at the periphery.  So...I think that being concerned about how lenses will deal with a higher density FF sensor, even if not as high a density as current APS-C sensors, is valid given that the APS-C sensor is 'seeing' only the higher-resolving portion of the image circle, whereas the corners of the FF sensor extend to the edges of the image circle where lens performance is worst.  Not going to matter much for a 300/2.8, but for a 17-40mm, which is already getting mushy at the corners on the 5DII...

Certainly, and its a point I try to touch on when I can. I think I've mentioned a few times that I'm referring to lens-center resolution. Its more difficult to evaluate corner sharpness, as falloff curves vary widely across Canon's lens lineup (across any lens lineup.) Falloff is often not linear by any means either. Whey I say that there are only a few Canon lenses that approach perfection, I mean center-to-edge resolution is nearly perfect. I think the only two lenses I've seen that solidly exhibit near-perfect replication accuracy center-to-edge (at least theoretically...I have not yet seen real MTF's for these lenses) are the yet to be released 500mm L II and 600mm L II. The 300 f/2.8 L may be another one, possibly the 70-200 f/2.8 L II (contrast seems great to edge, but sharpness does fall off a bit more), and I'd have to do some digging to see if there are any more...there are not many. Most Canon lenses do very well in the center, but some of the best fall off terribly in the corners. The original 16-35 L had atrocious corner sharpness and contrast vs. its excellent center sharpness, and even the Mark II version has less than stellar corner performance. I believe one of the reasons Canon is upgrading their line of lenses lately is to improve resolution characteristics across the board. It makes sense, for the very reasons you've stated...center-to-edge has to improve across the board to accommodate higher density sensors, particularly larger sensor formats.

neuroanatomist

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #708 on: February 28, 2012, 01:55:29 PM »
...if you don't have your external flash on your camera at that moment, you can miss an important shot. Again, pop-up flash is not ideal, but I wouldn't avoid a camera simply because it has one! While the lighting is harsh and does give a "deer in the headlights" look, I'd rather have a bad photo than no photo at all.

I agree with the sentiment.  But from a practical perspective, if the 5DII had a pop-up flash, the additional protrusion necessary for that would be a major annoyance when using TS-E lenses, just like it is when I try to use one on my 7D.

...we used to have to drop $5K in order to get our hands on Canon's pro AF (on a cropped sensor, no less).  Now they're releasing a product with the pro AF at a projected $3.5K ...

So, Canon has announced the spec for the 5DIII's AF system?  I must have missed that...  Even if it has the same number of points as the 1D X (and even that is still a rumor), that doesn't mean it's 'pro AF'.  I hope that's what it means, yes, but I'm not holding my breath - the 1-series AF is about more than the number of points.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 01:58:59 PM by neuroanatomist »
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x-vision

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #709 on: February 28, 2012, 02:14:46 PM »
There is no "one size fits all" in the end. The Nikonians themselves are divided over the best resolution for the D800(E).

...

I realize that studio photographers (and maybe wild life ones) would like to see a camera with the biggest MP they could possibly get. One has to ask what percentage of Canon's potential sales does this segment make. If the bread and butter is somewhere else, that's what Canon would naturally focus on.

What a sensible post. Agree 100%.

It should be quite clear by now that there is no "one size fits all" when it comes to these high-end cameras.
So, by trying to hit a sweet spot, Canon and Nikon will inevitably anger a certain number of users.

I also think that the rumored specs of the 5DIII are fantastic and I truly hope that the rumored $3500 price is the kit price, not the body-only price.
With these specs and the right price, I have no doubts that the 5DIII will be another great success for Canon.

kubelik

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #710 on: February 28, 2012, 02:16:48 PM »
...we used to have to drop $5K in order to get our hands on Canon's pro AF (on a cropped sensor, no less).  Now they're releasing a product with the pro AF at a projected $3.5K ...

So, Canon has announced the spec for the 5DIII's AF system?  I must have missed that...  Even if it has the same number of points as the 1D X (and even that is still a rumor), that doesn't mean it's 'pro AF'.  I hope that's what it means, yes, but I'm not holding my breath - the 1-series AF is about more than the number of points.

sure, neuro, we're dealing with rumors here.  but I'm addressing people's complaints about a rumor, so I figured taking the content of a rumor at face value is acceptable and even necessary if we're going to have it be a point of discussion.  if the rumors aren't valid points of discussion, what are any of us doing here?

GL

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #711 on: February 28, 2012, 03:09:01 PM »

I wouldn't buy the MkIII if it had  popup flash (which thankfully it doesn't).

Alright, I'll bite.  Why not?
Most cameras have something you wouldn't use, so why would this be a deal killer?  Keep in mind, that a popup on a camera like this could almost certainly be used as a communication flash to trigger other flashes, and wouldn't necessarily be used as a functional flash.  Even if it contains an RF device to trigger the 590 (if it has RF), we won't all be upgrading our current flashes right away.

And lastly, a popup is always there...just in case.  Its almost always better, IMO, to get a bad picture than no picture.

Thanks!
[/quote]

Frankly because it's flimsy and completely useless for 99.99% of the shots I take. And the 0.01% of shots I *might* use it for, would be for record, not for keeping. It's just my view; I'm sure others aren't bothered by the crappy-looking construction of a popup, but on a solid pro camera I don't think it has any merit or place, likewise an AF assist beam. If I have to use on-camera flash it may as well be to the aid of the final image. I'd feel the same if I were buying a MkII, III or D800 for that matter.

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #711 on: February 28, 2012, 03:09:01 PM »

jrista

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #712 on: February 28, 2012, 03:09:57 PM »
...we used to have to drop $5K in order to get our hands on Canon's pro AF (on a cropped sensor, no less).  Now they're releasing a product with the pro AF at a projected $3.5K ...

So, Canon has announced the spec for the 5DIII's AF system?  I must have missed that...  Even if it has the same number of points as the 1D X (and even that is still a rumor), that doesn't mean it's 'pro AF'.  I hope that's what it means, yes, but I'm not holding my breath - the 1-series AF is about more than the number of points.

sure, neuro, we're dealing with rumors here.  but I'm addressing people's complaints about a rumor, so I figured taking the content of a rumor at face value is acceptable and even necessary if we're going to have it be a point of discussion.  if the rumors aren't valid points of discussion, what are any of us doing here?

To Neuro's point, the rumors have NOT stated that the 5D III AF is actually "pro AF". It simply states its 61pt, and that IS still a rumor, even if its a solid one. As Nero stated, the 1D X AF is about more than just AF points. Its about what type of points, how each type of point is distributed, what kind of camera logic drives the AF, how configurable it is, etc.

All we know at this point is that a solid CR3 rumor states "61pt AF". Assuming anything more is, well, just wild speculation, and is neither rumor nor fact. It may well indeed be on topic here...but I think its important to be realistic...the 5D III has not been rumored to have professional grade AF on the level of the 1-series bodies.

epiieq1

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #713 on: February 28, 2012, 03:18:49 PM »
Just wondering if anyone has heard rumors or has insight into on-camera GPS for the 5Dmk3.  I know the 1DX has the add-on module, and I was hoping the mk3 would have integrated or an optional add-on, but don't see anything in the photos.  While some may consider this unnecessary, I like the fact that if I go on vacation all of the photos I have from my iPhone or Panasonic P&S have the GPS info on them and can be plotted, but my t2i requires complicated finagling and using my iPhone.  This is something Nikon has had available for awhile, and would be a great addition to a camera like this.  Totally fine with an add-on unit so that those that don't want it, don't have to have it, I'd just like the option.

dswatson83

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #714 on: February 28, 2012, 03:28:20 PM »
Just wondering if anyone has heard rumors or has insight into on-camera GPS for the 5Dmk3.  I know the 1DX has the add-on module, and I was hoping the mk3 would have integrated or an optional add-on, but don't see anything in the photos.  While some may consider this unnecessary, I like the fact that if I go on vacation all of the photos I have from my iPhone or Panasonic P&S have the GPS info on them and can be plotted, but my t2i requires complicated finagling and using my iPhone.  This is something Nikon has had available for awhile, and would be a great addition to a camera like this.  Totally fine with an add-on unit so that those that don't want it, don't have to have it, I'd just like the option.
It would probably be an add on unit. There are issues with taking GPS modules with cameras in to some countries. Cameras like the 5D and 1D series often make it into these remote countries where secrecy is important.

Jay_S

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #715 on: February 28, 2012, 03:55:02 PM »
...we used to have to drop $5K in order to get our hands on Canon's pro AF (on a cropped sensor, no less).  Now they're releasing a product with the pro AF at a projected $3.5K ...

So, Canon has announced the spec for the 5DIII's AF system?  I must have missed that...  Even if it has the same number of points as the 1D X (and even that is still a rumor), that doesn't mean it's 'pro AF'.  I hope that's what it means, yes, but I'm not holding my breath - the 1-series AF is about more than the number of points.

sure, neuro, we're dealing with rumors here.  but I'm addressing people's complaints about a rumor, so I figured taking the content of a rumor at face value is acceptable and even necessary if we're going to have it be a point of discussion.  if the rumors aren't valid points of discussion, what are any of us doing here?

To Neuro's point, the rumors have NOT stated that the 5D III AF is actually "pro AF". It simply states its 61pt, and that IS still a rumor, even if its a solid one. As Nero stated, the 1D X AF is about more than just AF points. Its about what type of points, how each type of point is distributed, what kind of camera logic drives the AF, how configurable it is, etc.

All we know at this point is that a solid CR3 rumor states "61pt AF". Assuming anything more is, well, just wild speculation, and is neither rumor nor fact. It may well indeed be on topic here...but I think its important to be realistic...the 5D III has not been rumored to have professional grade AF on the level of the 1-series bodies.

I'm inclined to think that they're not going to put the full bell's and whistle's focusing system of the D into the mkIII.. That would seem counter intuitive to marketing..  Clearly they would step up from the current 5Dii system, but they could take a lead from the 7D system and perhaps expand the number of points of that vs. a full 61 pt. system.  They've got to somehow not take away from the high end sales as well..   I'll start a new rumor here..  A 35 pt focusing system, selectable zones (like the 7D) and setting specific focusing points, also like the 7D.. maybe better metering of the points..  :-)   We'll see when we see, I guess.

Jay S.

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #716 on: February 28, 2012, 05:40:22 PM »
I'm inclined to think that they're not going to put the full bell's and whistle's focusing system of the D into the mkIII.. That would seem counter intuitive to marketing..  Clearly they would step up from the current 5Dii system, but they could take a lead from the 7D system and perhaps expand the number of points of that vs. a full 61 pt. system.  They've got to somehow not take away from the high end sales as well..   I'll start a new rumor here..  A 35 pt focusing system, selectable zones (like the 7D) and setting specific focusing points, also like the 7D.. maybe better metering of the points..  :-)   We'll see when we see, I guess.

Jay S.

In the past though there was a much stronger need to differentiate by AF system with the 1D line as ASPH which ment the 5D line had clear advanatges in some areas. With the 1DX those advanatges are likely gone leaving more of a list of pluses for the pro line.

My guess would be that the two AF systems will be very similar with the 5D mk3 lacking some of the more advanced programable modes and perhaps being a bit slower with reduced processing power.

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #717 on: February 28, 2012, 05:56:00 PM »
People talk all the time about the AF of the 5D MKII not being so great and so on but with a good technique anything can be possible. Here are few images.







I love my 5D MKII that's for sure!

www.gvisions.org - Bird Photography

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #717 on: February 28, 2012, 05:56:00 PM »

unfocused

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #718 on: February 28, 2012, 06:24:54 PM »
Just trying to make sure we get this thread over 50 pages. People need to do their part to set a record here.
pictures sharp. life not so much. www.unfocusedmg.com

wickidwombat

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #719 on: February 28, 2012, 06:25:29 PM »
wow great shots!
APS-H Fanboy

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Re: *UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
« Reply #719 on: February 28, 2012, 06:25:29 PM »