Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??

[dlleno]

I Think y'all are making this pro definition too complex

Ok, here's the classic definition - a "pro" camera is when you wade through mud in the trenches, jump away from incoming grenades and after days of rain your camera is still working. That's when Nikon and their "F" got their reputation from... 

sure thats one of a few features that Canon and others have found people will pay for.  along with durable shutters, focusing at f/8, etc. 

but the most important concept to understand is that companies exist to make profit.  and the more profit they make the happier their CEOs and boards of directors and shareholders are. [...] And so Canon puts different features into different models, not necesssarily based on mfg cost (although that is certainly part of it), but based on what will make them money.

Indeed - but shareholder value doesn't only extend to the next quarter report, but beyond, too. And alienating the customer base that is (only!) currently pinned to one's product by their lenses & flashes is not a sound long-term strategy. So if you differentiate your product lineup too short-sales oriented and the mix of features in each specific product themselves do not make sense, you won't survive the competition.

  right, and all those things are part of shareholder value, unless of course you are a short term shareholder.  Marketing is marketing, and it can bring success or failure.  I view the 5D3 pricing in that category -- one wonders what Canon did or did not know, and if they got caught resting on their laurels, Suddenly propelling themselves into the "Higher priced mfg" label.

And Canon is really on the edge, e.g. with leaving out afma from the 60d or all the little software annoyances to make you wish for a better body while your current one would do just fine with a firmware upgrade. I hope they learn from the d800 - Nikon's reputation has skyrocketed around Canon users since then, and Canon might be sorry to have tried to squeeze every last $ out of 5d3 customers.

no argument there.  and I suspect they are carefully weighing the 7D2 intro, so that a D800-like embarrassment does not happen!   

[!Xabbu]

And Canon is really on the edge, e.g. with leaving out afma from the 60d or all the little software annoyances to make you wish for a better body while your current one would do just fine with a firmware upgrade. I hope they learn from the d800 - Nikon's reputation has skyrocketed around Canon users since then, and Canon might be sorry to have tried to squeeze every last $ out of 5d3 customers.

no argument there.  and I suspect they are carefully weighing the 7D2 intro, so that a D800-like embarrassment does not happen!

Let's hope this will happen. It feels like history shows that Canon has a tendency to willingly cripple their "lower level" cameras (i.e. the AF on the 5D II, no AFMA on the 60D, AF on all xxxD/xxxxD bodies, ...). However, I think the 7D and 5D III show that Canon can also up it's game and deliver awesome products.

[Marsu42]

Let's hope this will happen. It feels like history shows that Canon has a tendency to willingly cripple their "lower level" cameras (i.e. the AF on the 5D II, no AFMA on the 60D, AF on all xxxD/xxxxD bodies, ...).

However, to be fair Nikon used to differentiate bodies with different sensors, while Canon does/did it with features like af. It's just these deliberately left out firmware features that I'm not too happy about - but having said that, the 60d is a complete package with "works for me" customization. I sometimes wonder if afma capability is in the body and just disabled, or if they cut costs and changed the hardware...

However, I think the 7D and 5D III show that Canon can also up it's game and deliver awesome products.

Crippling cheaper bodies wouldn't make sense if there wasn't the "real" thing - but at a big premium price like the 5d3 now or the 7d vs the 60d most of the time.

[kdsand]

As far as I can tell the fine tuning auto focus it's not about the bodies but about lenses. Canon can have higher quality output with lower quality hardware while still charging OEM premium. This is it cost effective strategy but it's not good for us consumers. I guess thats is one of the reasons that if I purchase a Canon lens that is not spot on I will not feel bad returning it to Canon as many times as it takes to have a perfect one perfect until I have to upgrade bodies. 

[Marsu42]

As far as I can tell the fine tuning auto focus it's not about the bodies but about lenses.

You're correct - however, Canon seems to adjust their lenses better anyway. Every Canon lens I ever tried had no afma problems (in contrast to 3rd party manufacturers like Tamron). That's why I think leaving out the afma from the 60d was not just intended to make the 7d look better, but mostly to torpedo 3rd party sales - I'll probably buy a Tamron 24-70, but won't getting around looking for a sample that fits my camera body out of the box.

[kdsand]

As far as I can tell the fine tuning auto focus it's not about the bodies but about lenses.

You're correct - however, Canon seems to adjust their lenses better anyway. Every Canon lens I ever tried had no afma problems (in contrast to 3rd party manufacturers like Tamron). That's why I think leaving out the afma from the 60d was not just intended to make the 7d look better, but mostly to torpedo 3rd party sales - I'll probably buy a Tamron 24-70, but won't getting around looking for a sample that fits my camera body out of the box.

The lack of fine tunable auto focus is the only thing that is a disappointment for me with my 60D while the rest of the features make it a great performer otherwise.  Down the line when I do upgrade tuning the A.F. is definitely on my must have list.

 Regarding third party lenses - they seem to be playing much better lately. Well that's what I'm seeing based on more current reviews vs those just a couple of years back. I know there are several very nice third party glass options to be had. If you do spend the extra time making sure you get a good copy there is another benefit - the various glass seems to have definite unique color/tone or richness. I guess I would say variation can keep your eyes sharp.