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Author Topic: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??  (Read 92251 times)

Marsu42

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Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« Reply #195 on: April 03, 2012, 10:26:38 AM »
The 5D3 is basically a full frame sensor in a 7D box. It's the full frame 7D that lots of people pleaded for. Something in the ~$2000 price range would need lower build quality. We already have that: the 5D2.

Indeed! And that's why they probably will release a new 5d2-like body, I cannot believe they plan to produce both the 5d2 and the clear successor 5d3 for years to come or they would have given the 5d3 another name. And just phasing out the 5d2 would raise the entry price tag to the ff world much too high, esp. since it's ff body owners who buy Canon's expensive L glass.

So a feature-cut 5d3 with more recent tech (sd cards...) and the usual Canon annoyances to make people with they had "the real thing" might be ahead.

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Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« Reply #195 on: April 03, 2012, 10:26:38 AM »

smirkypants

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Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« Reply #196 on: April 03, 2012, 10:37:37 AM »
There are some shared style features - but that is all
That's exactly right. But the people who lobbied for a full frame 7D were basically looking for something that had excellent auto focus, fast shooting speed and rugged build quality. Granted, they also wanted all of that for half the price of the 5D3, so aside from the cost and 2fps, they essentially got their wish and then some.

x-vision

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Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« Reply #197 on: April 03, 2012, 11:54:19 AM »
The 5D3 is basically a full frame sensor in a 7D box. It's the full frame 7D that lots of people pleaded for. Something in the ~$2000 price range would need lower build quality. We already have that: the 5D2.

Exactly.

The rumor is that the 5DII will remain in production untill this fall.
So, at least through the holiday season this year, Canon will have an "entry level" FF camera (5DII) and an advanced FF camera (5DIII).

After that, the 5DIII price will drop below $3000 and become more affordable.
At the same time, a new 70D at $1300-1500 will replace both the 60D and 7D.
No room for a 7DII in the lineup, IMO.


briansquibb

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Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« Reply #198 on: April 03, 2012, 11:58:49 AM »
There are some shared style features - but that is all
That's exactly right. But the people who lobbied for a full frame 7D were basically looking for something that had excellent auto focus, fast shooting speed and rugged build quality. Granted, they also wanted all of that for half the price of the 5D3, so aside from the cost and 2fps, they essentially got their wish and then some.

Button layout different, 1DX style AF, twin cards better weatherproofing etc

The shell may be 7D like but inside it is closer to the 1DX

thetenken

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Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« Reply #199 on: April 03, 2012, 12:32:54 PM »
What about:

1. 5DMk3 - $3500
2. 5DMk2 - phased out to allow for #3, or kept at $2000-$2100 price point
3. entry level full frame (19-36 point AF, 21-22MP, 4 fps, improved ISO performance, digic 5, cheaper body) - $2500-3000
4. 7dMk2/70d (36-61 point AF, 16-19MP, 6-8 fps, crop sensor, improved ISO/noise performance, weatherproof, dual digic5) - $1800-$2200
5. 7d - $1200-$1400 (eventually phased out)
6. 60d - $800-900
5. T4i (9-19 point AF, 16-19MP, 4fps, digic5, crop) -  $800-1000
6. Keep T3 ($500-600) for a bit longer, possibly phase out for Mirrorless.

Creating a true 70d under the 7dMk2 would work, just make it less weatherproof, single digic5, 4fps, 24-36pt AF).  The above changes would go with their "evolution" model.

Mirrorless entries:
1. $1000-1500 (competitor to the NEX-7, Nikon V1)
2. $600-800 (competitor to the NEX-5N, Nikon J1)

With mirrorless, I can see them going two ways: either go with an APS-C sized sensor like Sony/Samsung or keep the 1.5" G1X sensor.  The trick is getting their lenses to work.  I can see them completely phasing out EF-S lenses (or at least not developing any new lenses) and developing new, smaller lenses for their mirrorless cameras. 

Tracy Pinto

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Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« Reply #200 on: April 03, 2012, 12:43:46 PM »
There is plenty of room for an upgraded 7D.

The pricing on the 5D Mark III created the room. There are features that can be added within the current price of the 7D that will keep it selling fast and well loved. The 5D Mark II will be phased out in time and the if the 7D was not upgraded you would have a crater between the $900 60D APS-C and the $3,500 5D Mark III. Once the R&D is done on the features of the 5D Mark III and the 1D X Canon will monetize them by putting them judiciously in cameras that will sell more briskly. The XXD series will also get new features but the 7DII is great aspirational bridge they don't want to phase out.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 12:59:57 PM by Tracy Pinto »

briansquibb

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Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« Reply #201 on: April 03, 2012, 12:50:54 PM »
What about:


Creating a true 70d under the 7dMk2 would work, just make it less weatherproof, single digic5, 4fps, 24-36pt AF).  The above changes would go with their "evolution" model.



Surely that would be a 700D? I would be lower spec than the current 60D

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Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« Reply #201 on: April 03, 2012, 12:50:54 PM »

thetenken

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Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« Reply #202 on: April 03, 2012, 12:58:25 PM »
What about:


Creating a true 70d under the 7dMk2 would work, just make it less weatherproof, single digic5, 4fps, 24-36pt AF).  The above changes would go with their "evolution" model.



Surely that would be a 700D? I would be lower spec than the current 60D

How would that be a lower spec than the 60d except the 5.3fps vs. 4fps?  Keeping at 5.3-6fps is also possible.

briansquibb

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Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« Reply #203 on: April 03, 2012, 01:06:00 PM »
What about:


Creating a true 70d under the 7dMk2 would work, just make it less weatherproof, single digic5, 4fps, 24-36pt AF).  The above changes would go with their "evolution" model.



Surely that would be a 700D? I would be lower spec than the current 60D

How would that be a lower spec than the 60d except the 5.3fps vs. 4fps?  Keeping at 5.3-6fps is also possible.

The xxD range has always been a higher frame rate with the xxxD being 3-4fps. Would be like bringing out a 7D replacement with 5fps

x-vision

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Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« Reply #204 on: April 03, 2012, 01:42:36 PM »
The 5D Mark II will be phased out in time and the if the 7D was not upgraded you would have a crater between the $900 60D APS-C and the $3,500 5D Mark III.

This assumes that the xxD line will stay at $900.

But the 60D was announced at $1100 and in terms of specs was slotted nicely between the 7D and the Rebels.
So, it's obvious that Canon wanted to charge more for the 60D.

If the 70D is announced at $1300-1500 and the 5DIII drops below $3000, the pricing gap between the two is not going to be that large.

In fact, it would be the exact same gap that existed between the 20/30D and the original 5D back in the 2005-2007 period.

Marsu42

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Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« Reply #205 on: April 03, 2012, 02:10:21 PM »
How would that be a lower spec than the 60d except the 5.3fps vs. 4fps?  Keeping at 5.3-6fps is also possible.

And note that the actual fps of the 60d is a little faster than 6 fps and much faster in live view, obviously they just wanted to have a gap to the 7d on paper. So "real" 4fps would be a knock out feature for 60d->70d upgraders.

But the 60D was announced at $1100 and in terms of specs was slotted nicely between the 7D and the Rebels.
So, it's obvious that Canon wanted to charge more for the 60D. If the 70D is announced at $1300-1500 and the 5DIII drops below $3000, the pricing gap between the two is not going to be that large.

In this case gap between the xxd and 5d3 might indeed become smaller, but imho the gap between the entry-level xxxd and amateur xxd would become too large.

Advanced amateurs aren't meant to and won't want to get a xxxd/650d, but it's questionable if Canon would get away with selling a $1500 xxd/70d aps-c body nowadays when Nikon (and maybe Sony) competitors are cheaper for comparable or even better feature sets (back dial, a little more sturdy body, ~6fps+ rate, somehow usable af).

BobSanderson

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Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« Reply #206 on: April 03, 2012, 02:32:41 PM »
There is plenty of room for an upgraded 7D.

The pricing on the 5D Mark III created the room. There are features that can be added within the current price of the 7D that will keep it selling fast and well loved. The 5D Mark II will be phased out in time and the if the 7D was not upgraded you would have a crater between the $900 60D APS-C and the $3,500 5D Mark III. Once the R&D is done on the features of the 5D Mark III and the 1D X Canon will monetize them by putting them judiciously in cameras that will sell more briskly. The XXD series will also get new features but the 7DII is great aspirational bridge they don't want to phase out.

This makes sense. The 7D should be updated with some of the features of the flagships while keeping the price affordable near its current range. The xxD line adds values at its price range around 1 K as a stepping stone and the Rebels can come in below for hobbyists and families on a budget. Is important to Canon to match people's aspirations with options that offer real value and performance differences.

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« Reply #207 on: April 03, 2012, 02:45:41 PM »
Probably not :-p ... it's still a possibility that Canon might drop the 7d2 in favor of a new full frame body in the ~2000 bucks price segment and put in the 7d af in the 70d next year. But maybe that's just wishful thinking on my side.
The 5D3 is basically a full frame sensor in a 7D box. It's the full frame 7D that lots of people pleaded for. Something in the ~$2000 price range would need lower build quality. We already have that: the 5D2.

With so many shared features from the 1dx, its a stretch to say the 5dmkiii is a FF sensor in a 7D box...

If canon's plan is to keep the mkii in production till fall then it may be that we will see a 7d2, as to the specs, I'd say it will follow the evolution path - but it depends on the price point it will be at --- if its to be a $2000 or less body, it will probably have:

1 card slot
similar build quality (I had half a beer spilled on mine a month ago - weather sealing worked like a charm!!!!)
same ISO range but improved noise quality in the 3200-6400 range (I'd much rather have that than an expanded ISO range with little to no improvement in quality) - or maybe add one higher iso stop (that would keep it one less than the 5d3)
same frames per second, a few more AF points (as high as 41, maybe less)
dual digic 5
22 MP

any more than that and its no longer hitting that 18-22K price point.
any more than that and it could eat away at 5d3 sales
its not a holy bejessus I have to upgrade cam - its enough to make t an xxd series users consider it, its enough to entice current 7d users into it, but not quite enough to pull on the fence 5d2 users away from the 5d3 - also not enough for those like me on a 7d who want to go FF and is saving for the 5d3 to instead say i'll just go with a 7d2 - it can't have everything the 5d3 has minus the ff sensor, or those like me may shift.  It would please the wildlife togs who want the crop to get extra reach.  Marginal evolutionary upgrade....not a revolutionary one

All this depends on their plans though.  If the 7d2 is slated for release a year from now, that's what i suspect we'll get.  If its 2 years off though, they may go with something thats more revolutionary (28 MP, 8 frames per second, dual digic 6, 61 pt AF). 

I kind of see the 7d as almost an R&D experiment, a cam designed to test features they want to put in their 1d/5d lines.  And with the MP race on, a 28 MP crop would eat at the segment of the d800 market that loves the  crop function for the reach - canon may very well be waiting on higher mp's so they can get the digic 6 running so that can actually hit 8 frames per second with high MP...but I wouldn't count on any of that if the 7d2 is slated for late 2012/early 2013...

just my 2 cents
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Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« Reply #207 on: April 03, 2012, 02:45:41 PM »

unfocused

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Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« Reply #208 on: April 03, 2012, 03:51:03 PM »
There is plenty of room for an upgraded 7D.

The pricing on the 5D Mark III created the room. There are features that can be added within the current price of the 7D that will keep it selling fast and well loved. The 5D Mark II will be phased out in time and the if the 7D was not upgraded you would have a crater between the $900 60D APS-C and the $3,500 5D Mark III. Once the R&D is done on the features of the 5D Mark III and the 1D X Canon will monetize them by putting them judiciously in cameras that will sell more briskly. The XXD series will also get new features but the 7DII is great aspirational bridge they don't want to phase out.
This makes sense. The 7D should be updated with some of the features of the flagships while keeping the price affordable near its current range. The xxD line adds values at its price range around 1 K as a stepping stone and the Rebels can come in below for hobbyists and families on a budget. Is important to Canon to match people's aspirations with options that offer real value and performance differences.

Yes, this all makes sense. Since we are speculating here, I predict the following:

5D jr. (They will need a new name here.) Full frame "entry-level" Frankencamera.  Sensor: either current 5DII or 5DIII depending on whether it is cheaper to keep making the 5DII sensor or just up the volume of the 5DIII sensor. Canon likes to reuse sensors, so it makes sense to hand the 5D III sensor down to the "jr." Processor? Again, is it cheaper to keep making Digic IV or to use Digic V? I'm guessing Digic V. So, we could see a full frame "entry level" body with a new sensor and new processor, but keeping most of the other features of the 5DII. Price this in the $2,000 to $2,500 range. If all they do is change out the processor and sensor, it may not be much more expensive to manufacture than the current 5D.

7D II Modest autofocus improvements, improved sensor with better low-light performance and reduced noise. Sensor remains somewhere in the 18mp range. An 18mp APS-C sensor would likely enable Canon to use just one processor instead of two, cutting their  processor costs in half, while still boosting or maintaining the current frame rate. With three years of R&D under their belts, the image quality should be roughly equal to the 1D IV, enabling Canon to market the camera to wildlife and sports photographers as well as enthusiasts and prosumers. Priced between $1,600-$1,900 (this is a very competitive niche, so Canon is more price-restrained than with the 5DIII).

70D Will inherit the 7DII sensor after about 9 months to a year. Other modest upgrades to allow for room at the bottom end of the line for enhancements to the Rebels. Again, pricing will be determined primarily by the competitive marketplace, but likely will be similar to the current 60D.

7Dx: Pure speculation/dreaming on my part, but I still don't think we can rule out the possibility of an integrated gripped 7Dx with additional weathersealing and perhaps a higher frame rate, geared toward wildlife and sports photographers. As a successor to the 1D IV they have a lot of pricing flexibility here, but I will be conservative and say they keep it in the $2,500 range. High enough to make a tidy profit on the improvements, but low enough to entice enthusiasts with discretionary income.
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darkstar

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Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« Reply #209 on: April 04, 2012, 11:45:59 AM »
I see room for a 7Dii provided it'll have

dual card slot (sdx / CF)
dual Digic 5
APS-C @ 21-22MP
Better hi-ISO performance (hi ISO standard @ 25600)
8FPS
USB3
built-in GPS
 

Same current 7D price
 

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Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« Reply #209 on: April 04, 2012, 11:45:59 AM »