September 01, 2014, 07:56:19 PM

Poll

What are your plans with regards to purchasing a new camera

I'm buying the Mark III for $3500
181 (44.7%)
I'm keeping my Mark II since the Mark III is priced to high
92 (22.7%)
I'm selling my Mark II and buying a Nikon D800 for $2999
35 (8.6%)
I'm a crop owner (or first time buyer) and now I'm waiting for the Mark II Price drop.
69 (17%)
I'm waiting for the T4i specs before purchasing a 60d, 7d, or t3i.
17 (4.2%)
I'm just going to purchase a T3i, 60d, or 7d and call it a day.
11 (2.7%)

Total Members Voted: 405

Author Topic: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price  (Read 89744 times)

djw

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Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?
« Reply #210 on: March 02, 2012, 06:30:02 PM »

Well in Australia they want $4399 for a pre-order. Remember that every $1AUD= $1.08US. This company is obviously either ripping us off, or can't implement a basic currency hedging strategy.

Very unhappy & very pissed off!!!!

The cheapest AU price I have seen is $3865 at Camerapro. Only AU$865 left to drop before the price is OK for me ;-)

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Re: Mark III Price turning you off? Considering a different model now?
« Reply #210 on: March 02, 2012, 06:30:02 PM »

XanuFoto

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #211 on: March 02, 2012, 06:38:56 PM »
I did think the price was high at first and

Then I saw the ISO performance image samples.
And then I realised that the AF was light years better then the MKII
and then I realised this things can shoot at 6 fps
and then I realised this is a completely new gapless pixel sensor design
and then I realised this had weather ceiling

and I wondered ..... Is a 1000 dollars above the price of the current MKII really that much extra for all these PRO features?

Maybe not.

Kliphten

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #212 on: March 02, 2012, 07:02:34 PM »
I did think the price was high at first and

Then I saw the ISO performance image samples.
And then I realised that the AF was light years better then the MKII
and then I realised this things can shoot at 6 fps
and then I realised this is a completely new gapless pixel sensor design
and then I realised this had weather ceiling

and I wondered ..... Is a 1000 dollars above the price of the current MKII really that much extra for all these PRO features?

Maybe not.

This, to me, would make sense if they were both (II and III) introduced at the same time.  But they weren't.  The II was released about 4 years ago.

cliffwang

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #213 on: March 02, 2012, 07:10:28 PM »
I did think the price was high at first and

Then I saw the ISO performance image samples.
And then I realised that the AF was light years better then the MKII
and then I realised this things can shoot at 6 fps
and then I realised this is a completely new gapless pixel sensor design
and then I realised this had weather ceiling

and I wondered ..... Is a 1000 dollars above the price of the current MKII really that much extra for all these PRO features?

Maybe not.

Years ago people spent $2000+ for a laptop.  Now you get 3 to 4 times faster CPU, 2 to 3 times bigger memory and hard drive, and much lighter weight.  Are you going to pay $4000+ for a laptop?
Supply and demand determine the market price.  3500 might be a right price for the market.  However, people shouldn't think 1000 dollars more is okay to buy some new features from a new device.  You are comparing the two different cameras from different age and background.
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randplaty

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #214 on: March 02, 2012, 07:32:13 PM »
I did think the price was high at first and

Then I saw the ISO performance image samples.
And then I realised that the AF was light years better then the MKII
and then I realised this things can shoot at 6 fps
and then I realised this is a completely new gapless pixel sensor design
and then I realised this had weather ceiling

and I wondered ..... Is a 1000 dollars above the price of the current MKII really that much extra for all these PRO features?

Maybe not.

Years ago people spent $2000+ for a laptop.  Now you get 3 to 4 times faster CPU, 2 to 3 times bigger memory and hard drive, and much lighter weight.  Are you going to pay $4000+ for a laptop?
Supply and demand determine the market price.  3500 might be a right price for the market.  However, people shouldn't think 1000 dollars more is okay to buy some new features from a new device.  You are comparing the two different cameras from different age and background.

Not everything works this way.  Certain things improve faster for less money, like RAM and HD space.  Certain things improve slower, like monitors or cars.  Look at lenses, the lenses are improving but they're also costing a lot more money.  You can't expect everything to behave like computers.

elflord

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #215 on: March 02, 2012, 07:40:23 PM »
Years ago people spent $2000+ for a laptop.  Now you get 3 to 4 times faster CPU, 2 to 3 times bigger memory and hard drive, and much lighter weight.  Are you going to pay $4000+ for a laptop?

The chances are, you'd pay at least twice as much for the new laptop as you would for the old laptop.

If you're suggesting that you'd expect nominal prices to stay constant or decrease -- that may have happened with computers, but there is no reason to believe that this is the way it must be for all products. As pointed out in another thread, adjusting for inflation and exchange rate moves, the price has actually dropped slightly (that is, the inflation adjusted price in JPY)

Quote
Supply and demand determine the market price.  3500 might be a right price for the market.  However, people shouldn't think 1000 dollars more is okay to buy some new features from a new device.  You are comparing the two different cameras from different age and background.

The fact that they were originally released at different times isn't really relevant, as long as the comparison is between current prices.

[keeping my Mark II, because I still like my Mark II]

tivoboy

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #216 on: March 02, 2012, 08:02:31 PM »
Since the 5d MkII was launched, the yen has appreciated about 30%.. in that period of time, we now have the 5d MkIII but with much better and many more features with the same nominal price, and yet for canon they are getting 30% less in yen.  Seems to be a pretty good deal IMHO.

The price of cars continue to go up. 
The price of health care TECHNOLOGY continues to go up
The price of higher education REALLY continues to go up
The price of technology manufacturing continues to go up
The price of movies, continues to go up
The price of high tech devices like binoculars, telescopes, microscopes, continues to go up.

While we might like to think that things like Moores Law as it applies to the development of integrated processors and the commoditization of the chip and derivative computers industry can apply to all things, it simply doesn't. 

Companies take new product launches as an opportunity to RESET market retail pricing relative to medium to long term exchange rate differences thinking that it might get lost in the analysis of the new product buyer. 

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #216 on: March 02, 2012, 08:02:31 PM »

cliffwang

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #217 on: March 02, 2012, 08:15:12 PM »
I did think the price was high at first and

Then I saw the ISO performance image samples.
And then I realised that the AF was light years better then the MKII
and then I realised this things can shoot at 6 fps
and then I realised this is a completely new gapless pixel sensor design
and then I realised this had weather ceiling

and I wondered ..... Is a 1000 dollars above the price of the current MKII really that much extra for all these PRO features?

Maybe not.

Years ago people spent $2000+ for a laptop.  Now you get 3 to 4 times faster CPU, 2 to 3 times bigger memory and hard drive, and much lighter weight.  Are you going to pay $4000+ for a laptop?
Supply and demand determine the market price.  3500 might be a right price for the market.  However, people shouldn't think 1000 dollars more is okay to buy some new features from a new device.  You are comparing the two different cameras from different age and background.

Not everything works this way.  Certain things improve faster for less money, like RAM and HD space.  Certain things improve slower, like monitors or cars.  Look at lenses, the lenses are improving but they're also costing a lot more money.  You can't expect everything to behave like computers.

I agree some industry improves very slow.  However, camera industry have improved a lot, right? I mean camera body, not lenses.  I do believe 5D3's cost is lower than 5D2's cost when 5D2 just released.  I don't want to argue the $3500 list price.  I believe Canon did its homework for the market and think that's the right price.  What's the part I don't agree is people comparing the new device and 3 year old device and say it is worth for the extra $1000.  I think that not logical.

Some people say the price of many stuff goes up.  Think about what kind stuff are them.  Please think about inflation and manufacturing cost.

Again, I don't want to argue the $3500 list price.  However, I just cannot agree the way people compare the prices of two products from different time.
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capertillar

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #218 on: March 02, 2012, 09:34:56 PM »
in terms of computer equipment, it simply has to do with economies of scale

the production level of computer components allow massive leaps forward in technology with a very quick reduction in price, like memory cards

however, given that we can only count a handful of companies producing the products at the level we want them to, it's certainly their privilege to charge a premium for their product

just wish that premium was 500 USD less... LOL!

rmhowie

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #219 on: March 02, 2012, 09:40:52 PM »
It's simple; if you don't want to pay the price, don't buy it. Why complain about it?

XanuFoto

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #220 on: March 02, 2012, 09:45:18 PM »
I did think the price was high at first and

Then I saw the ISO performance image samples.
And then I realised that the AF was light years better then the MKII
and then I realised this things can shoot at 6 fps
and then I realised this is a completely new gapless pixel sensor design
and then I realised this had weather ceiling

and I wondered ..... Is a 1000 dollars above the price of the current MKII really that much extra for all these PRO features?

Maybe not.

This, to me, would make sense if they were both (II and III) introduced at the same time.  But they weren't.  The II was released about 4 years ago.
But the MkII is still MRSP'ed at 2499.

XanuFoto

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #221 on: March 02, 2012, 09:48:10 PM »
I did think the price was high at first and

Then I saw the ISO performance image samples.
And then I realised that the AF was light years better then the MKII
and then I realised this things can shoot at 6 fps
and then I realised this is a completely new gapless pixel sensor design
and then I realised this had weather ceiling

and I wondered ..... Is a 1000 dollars above the price of the current MKII really that much extra for all these PRO features?

Maybe not.

Years ago people spent $2000+ for a laptop.  Now you get 3 to 4 times faster CPU, 2 to 3 times bigger memory and hard drive, and much lighter weight.  Are you going to pay $4000+ for a laptop?
Supply and demand determine the market price.  3500 might be a right price for the market.  However, people shouldn't think 1000 dollars more is okay to buy some new features from a new device.  You are comparing the two different cameras from different age and background.
Not exactly a great analogy as you cannot template the PC/Laptop industry to specialised Camera companies. The volume of scales are not the same and the CMOS sensor RD is very restricted between Canon and Sony.

jrista

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #222 on: March 02, 2012, 09:59:48 PM »
Not exactly a great analogy as you cannot template the PC/Laptop industry to specialised Camera companies. The volume of scales are not the same and the CMOS sensor RD is very restricted between Canon and Sony.

Sensor fabrication defects also affect yield on CMOS sensors much more than they do on IC's. With an integrated circuit like a multi-core CPU, if a defect kills off a core or two, or even part of L2 or L3 cache, manufacturers can usually disable the unusable parts. That greatly reduces the loss due to imperfections in wafers, salvaging "damaged" parts for use as slower or less capable versions. This would apply to CPU's with large on-board caches, multi-core CPU's, GPU's, etc.

When it comes to CMOS sensors, a single defect tends to kill the whole sensor. When it comes to larger full-frame sensors, they start right out making FAR less efficient use of wafer area than smaller sensors, cpu's, gpu's, etc. You can't salvage a sensor etched onto defective wafer area, so they are pure loss. That greatly increases the price of FF sensors over smaller ones. Thats also a significant factor to why medium format cameras are so expensive (the least expensive of which are Pentax's 645D.) MF sensors use wafer space even less effectively, and defect loss is even higher (the greater the sensor area, the greater the chances of losing entire sensors to a single wafer defect.)

Comparing the larger format digital camera market to the laptop or even larger PC market in general is indeed a rather poor analogy. The circumstances and behavior of the two markets differ radically, on many more levels than just CMOS fabrication.
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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #222 on: March 02, 2012, 09:59:48 PM »

kdsand

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #223 on: March 03, 2012, 12:17:51 AM »
Before Nikon or Canon releases a camera they go to Ken Rockwell and they ask him to test them, the best cameras get a Nikon sticker and the less good get a Canon sticker


Ouch
  I assume that's sarcastic
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elflord

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #224 on: March 03, 2012, 01:39:25 PM »
I agree some industry improves very slow.  However, camera industry have improved a lot, right? I mean camera body, not lenses.  I do believe 5D3's cost is lower than 5D2's cost when 5D2 just released.  I don't want to argue the $3500 list price.  I believe Canon did its homework for the market and think that's the right price.  What's the part I don't agree is people comparing the new device and 3 year old device and say it is worth for the extra $1000.  I think that not logical.

What isn't logical about it ? If the other item really isn't worth what it costs, then that's one thing, but judging by 5D Mark II sales, it does seem to be reasonably well priced. If the new one really isn't worth $1000 more, people really will buy the old one instead.

Quote
Some people say the price of many stuff goes up.  Think about what kind stuff are them.  Please think about inflation and manufacturing cost.

The JPY went up.

Quote
Again, I don't want to argue the $3500 list price.  However, I just cannot agree the way people compare the prices of two products from different time.

The 5D Mark II isn't "from a different time" -- you're talking about it like it's the Canon F1 but this isn't the case at all. We are not comparing the price of the 5D Mk II from 10 years ago. The 5D Mark II is still sold today (it still really is the current model, at least until someone gets a fill on a preorder), and sells in large numbers at a price of $2500. It is true that the announce date is some time back, but it is still a competitor in todays camera market.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 01:41:38 PM by elflord »

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #224 on: March 03, 2012, 01:39:25 PM »