April 20, 2014, 11:07:47 AM

Poll

What are your plans with regards to purchasing a new camera

I'm buying the Mark III for $3500
181 (44.7%)
I'm keeping my Mark II since the Mark III is priced to high
92 (22.7%)
I'm selling my Mark II and buying a Nikon D800 for $2999
35 (8.6%)
I'm a crop owner (or first time buyer) and now I'm waiting for the Mark II Price drop.
69 (17%)
I'm waiting for the T4i specs before purchasing a 60d, 7d, or t3i.
17 (4.2%)
I'm just going to purchase a T3i, 60d, or 7d and call it a day.
11 (2.7%)

Total Members Voted: 405

Author Topic: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price  (Read 83067 times)

eeek

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Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII
« Reply #315 on: March 05, 2012, 10:20:34 PM »
Also, not sure if you know this or not, the was a small earthquake and a little flood in Japan last year.  A lot of Canon's raw sources, production faclities, parts and other supilles suffered just a tiny bit.  Add that with a weak dollar, a product that required research and development and demand, and the prices goes up. 

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Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII
« Reply #315 on: March 05, 2012, 10:20:34 PM »

eeek

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Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII
« Reply #316 on: March 05, 2012, 10:23:28 PM »
Wonderful post, Terry Rogers.

Meh

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Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII
« Reply #317 on: March 05, 2012, 10:26:16 PM »
@TerryRogers.... yep, that's about right.   The key is that Canon thinks a sufficiently large number of potential customers will pay $3500 at the time of announcement.  The price will come down as all the early adopters get their units in their hands and enjoy firing off thousands of glorious shots.  Sales will then slow down a bit and then discounts/rebates/sales will be offered that will allow the next group to get some satisfaction.

On the other hand, while Canon can, and does, set prices differently in different countries they won't allow too much price difference otherwise customers would be disgruntled for that reason.  Therefore, the argument that Canon in reality has merely set the price the same as the 5D2 introduction price in Yen and the weakening of the US dollar is a large contributor to the apparent increase in the US pricing is, in fact, quite valid.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 10:27:58 PM by Meh »

FunPhotons

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Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII
« Reply #318 on: March 05, 2012, 10:33:28 PM »
This is too simpleminded as others have pointed out. Global companies such as Canon have complex finances that aren't subject to simple rules like you showed. For starters, money if fungible, which means that a local dollar (a buck collected in the US) doesn't necessarily have to be repatriated, thereby going through the horrific currency exchange you mention. Canon employs people across the world including the US - maybe that buck is 'kept' on US soil and used 'to pay' US Canon employees. Or maybe it's 'kept' on US soil and used 'to pay' for US goods that are shipped to Japan for Canon's manufacturing, or it is spent on US advertising, or a web presence in the US. Or maybe Japan has lenient tax laws and that buck doesn't need to be converted at all.

Who knows? These are all stupid examples, because the answer you gave is nonsensical. The answer to the price increase is because Canon marketing decided this is the price the market will bear.

ippikiokami

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #319 on: March 05, 2012, 10:34:54 PM »


The other factor which will I believe affect pricing will be how current owners of higher-end Canon DSLRS perceive the usefulness of the 5D3's upgrades in relation to their present cameras. And here I think the clever boys in marketing have made at least one serious mis-step. I'm not a videographer and I don't pretend to know their priorities, but I do know that video was the sine qua non feature which gave the 5D2 its enormous market advantage. And it can't be good news for Canon that several prominent DSLR videographers are already on record as saying that the 5D3 is a much larger step forward for still photography than it is for video. Vincent LaForet, the Godfather of DSLR video, is aghast at the lack of clean HDMI output from the new camera. "Why? Why? Why?" he asks in exasperation on his blog. (Nikon has it.)

Likewise, several videographers and commentators simply assumed that the 5D3 would take the next step to 1080p output at 60 fps, and expressed shock when it didn't. It's a capability now found on several mirrorless cameras, which also feature video autofocus superior to anything Canon has yet demonstrated. More people might feel Canon's $500 premium is justifed if it included a second processor (a Digic 4 or perhaps a 5 with or without the +) to provide the processing horsepower to handle 60 fps.
 
All in all it seems like a golden lead squandered. "Explorer of Light" and loyal Canon champion Laforet is so disenchanted with the specs of the new camera that he goes out of his way on his blog to tell his patron company and the world that he will not be making a video with the 5D3. And just in case Canon executives are oblivious to the fact that this a howl of protest, LaForet remounts a page-one link to his seminal video, Revery--shot with the 5D2. Could there be a clearer slap in the face from a videographer?

If the 5D3 can't maintain the 5D2's enormous sales advantage among videographers, I'll have my new camera about as soon as I can afford it.

In Laforet's post... How does everyone miss the fact that he basically states his needs are not on the stills side anymore and the $15,000 C300 purely video camera is what he is benchmarking the 5d III? Of course for a pure video guy that can afford 15k C300 how is the 5d III really going to impress him? Seems like a super case of reading what you want into it.

When the 5d2 came out Laforet was still know as a Pulitzer Prize winning photographer and he was really just getting into cinema productions.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 10:38:20 PM by ippikiokami »

Plathora

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Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII
« Reply #320 on: March 05, 2012, 10:38:42 PM »
Canon can charge me as much as it wants; that is until the day my lenses start saying 'made in China' on the bottom. I doubt I am alone.


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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #321 on: March 05, 2012, 11:00:27 PM »

Meh

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Re: Understanding the price increase on the 5DIII
« Reply #322 on: March 05, 2012, 11:06:29 PM »
This is too simpleminded as others have pointed out. Global companies such as Canon have complex finances that aren't subject to simple rules like you showed. For starters, money if fungible, which means that a local dollar (a buck collected in the US) doesn't necessarily have to be repatriated, thereby going through the horrific currency exchange you mention. Canon employs people across the world including the US - maybe that buck is 'kept' on US soil and used 'to pay' US Canon employees. Or maybe it's 'kept' on US soil and used 'to pay' for US goods that are shipped to Japan for Canon's manufacturing, or it is spent on US advertising, or a web presence in the US. Or maybe Japan has lenient tax laws and that buck doesn't need to be converted at all.

Who knows? These are all stupid examples, because the answer you gave is nonsensical. The answer to the price increase is because Canon marketing decided this is the price the market will bear.

I've always like the word "fungible" so +1 for that.  You are correct about the complex financial structures of multi-national corporations and the fact that dollars generated in the US do not have to be actually converted back to Yen.  However, Canon USA's financial statements are, every quarter, converted to Yen and consolidated with the parent corporation.  You are also correct in stating that Canon has set the price based on what they think they can sell it for but unfortunately, you're incorrectly dismissing the exchange rate.  While I have agreed with others that is is overly simplistic to attribute the USD price increase solely on the exchange, I firmly believe that Canon set the price in Yen first and then set the price in other currencies possibly deviating from the straight FX conversion to account for market conditions but not by much.  They would not have decided to set the price at 283,000 yen and then "set" US price at say $2700 causing an $800 price disparity.

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ippikiokami

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #324 on: March 05, 2012, 11:50:42 PM »
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/31/us-toyota-prices-idUSTRE72U75420110331
http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2011/08/12/strong-yen-puts-brakes-on-honda-profits/
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-05/japan-inc-suppliers-cut-jobs-as-yen-batters-tv-chip-profit.html
http://www.tokyotimes.co.jp/2012/canons-yearly-profit-reduced-by-strong-yen/

To say it didn't factor in at all is probably wrong too.


I never said it doesn't play a factor at all. It plays a factor into how much profit Canon can make. They price it to maximize whatever profit they do make.


My post wasn't aimed at you Terry, but to go along with your example since it plays a factor in how much profit then it is a notable factor especially when the worldwide economy isn't in it's best place right?

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #325 on: March 06, 2012, 12:12:26 AM »
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/31/us-toyota-prices-idUSTRE72U75420110331
http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2011/08/12/strong-yen-puts-brakes-on-honda-profits/
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-05/japan-inc-suppliers-cut-jobs-as-yen-batters-tv-chip-profit.html
http://www.tokyotimes.co.jp/2012/canons-yearly-profit-reduced-by-strong-yen/

To say it didn't factor in at all is probably wrong too.


I never said it doesn't play a factor at all. It plays a factor into how much profit Canon can make. They price it to maximize whatever profit they do make.


My post wasn't aimed at you Terry, but to go along with your example since it plays a factor in how much profit then it is a notable factor especially when the worldwide economy isn't in it's best place right?


Yes, I agree. Though my grasp on worldwide economics is very limited.
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x-vision

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #326 on: March 06, 2012, 12:15:49 AM »
If the 5D3 can't maintain the 5D2's enormous sales advantage among videographers, I'll have my new camera about as soon as I can afford it.

Hehe, agree.
Very good analysis overall.

I also think that the 5DIII price will erode because of videographers.
In addition to Canon omitting some key video specs from the 5DIII ('clean' HDMI, 60fps 1080p), there are strong indications that Sony will be announcing their A99 model this fall - an SLT camera with 24mp FF sensor.

Sony's A900 and A850 were not very popular for still photography.
However, if Sony plays their cars well, the A99 might become very popular with videographers.

If the A99 has 'clean' HDMI, 60fps 1080p, and is priced around the $2000 mark, it can easily become the video DSLR of choice for many of those who are now buying the 5DII and (potentially) the 5DIII.

The possibility that a large group of buyers might migrate to the competition will surely prompt Canon to lower the 5DIII price.
My prediction is that the 5DIII price will drop to $2600-2400 next summer and stay at that level for a while.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 01:25:14 AM by x-vision »

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #327 on: March 06, 2012, 12:21:46 AM »
I just checked Amazon and the $3500 5D3 is the #2 best-selling digital camera on their list, the only DSLR in the Top 10  :P. The other DSLRs in the #11-20 range are the Rebels. So $3500 doesn't seem to be an issue for those buying in this category of cameras.
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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #327 on: March 06, 2012, 12:21:46 AM »

Drama79

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #328 on: March 06, 2012, 02:10:07 AM »
I just checked Amazon and the $3500 5D3 is the #2 best-selling digital camera on their list, the only DSLR in the Top 10  :P. The other DSLRs in the #11-20 range are the Rebels. So $3500 doesn't seem to be an issue for those buying in this category of cameras.

This.

I've just read 4 pages of amateur economics, rants and screeds, and it all boils down to this: the price is $3500. Because Canon say so, and it isn't shifting at the moment. Given the cameras presales are backed out the yaya at every camera shop, it's the no.1 electrical item on amazon.co.uk (or was last night) and no.2 camera on amazon.com, demand is clearly high, and staying there for the forseeable.

it's almost as if Canon put some research and thought into pricing their products....

noodles

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #329 on: March 06, 2012, 03:14:18 AM »
At this moment: March 06, 2012, 04:10:37 PM
it is a win for the Canon 5D MK II

Canon 5D MK III = 118 votes (39,9%)

Keepers 5D MK II + upgraders to 5D MK II = 127 votes (42,9%)

at some point - when the price of the 5D MKIII will go down (next 6 to 9 months) it will be a win for the 5D MK III
New always wins from old

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #329 on: March 06, 2012, 03:14:18 AM »