October 23, 2014, 02:56:14 PM

Poll

What are your plans with regards to purchasing a new camera

I'm buying the Mark III for $3500
181 (44.7%)
I'm keeping my Mark II since the Mark III is priced to high
92 (22.7%)
I'm selling my Mark II and buying a Nikon D800 for $2999
35 (8.6%)
I'm a crop owner (or first time buyer) and now I'm waiting for the Mark II Price drop.
69 (17%)
I'm waiting for the T4i specs before purchasing a 60d, 7d, or t3i.
17 (4.2%)
I'm just going to purchase a T3i, 60d, or 7d and call it a day.
11 (2.7%)

Total Members Voted: 404

Author Topic: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price  (Read 91246 times)

gabriele

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #390 on: March 11, 2012, 02:55:49 PM »
Well considering that adding a battery grip makes this camera way better than the way more pricey 1Ds Mk III probably that's the reason for the high price.
Still I'd exchange it anytime for my 5D Mk II if I could, but yes it's quite pricey at the moment...who knows maybe in the future.

Way better? Not so sure about that - particularly up to iso400

Well actually the 5D Mark II has already a slightly better sensor compared to the 1Ds Mark III (quite subtle in most of the cases but still a little bit better).
Talking about functions of course the 1Ds Mk III is waaaay better than the 5D Mark II, maybe it has something more also compared to the 5D Mark III speaking of functions, but there are also lot of other functions available solely on the 5D Mark III and not on the 1Ds Mark III.
So since the new camera is about 2 stops better than the new one, it would be obviously better than the 1Ds Mark III for noise performance and picture quality, plus you get a better AF and faster burst mode.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 03:24:41 PM by gabriele »
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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #390 on: March 11, 2012, 02:55:49 PM »

capertillar

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #391 on: March 11, 2012, 03:17:14 PM »
i actually got a gold box deal from amazon today to pre-order the D800 for 2850 USD... 5% off the 3000 price... if i were aiming for the d800, i probably would have put in the order

wonder if it'll come around again on the 5d3, i might accept a price of 3325 for the 5d3...

briansquibb

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #392 on: March 11, 2012, 03:25:30 PM »
Well considering that adding a battery grip makes this camera way better than the way more pricey 1Ds Mk III probably that's the reason for the high price.
Still I'd exchange it anytime for my 5D Mk II if I could, but yes it's quite pricey at the moment...who knows maybe in the future.

Way better? Not so sure about that - particularly up to iso400

Well actually the 5D Mark II has already a slightly better sensor compared to the 1Ds Mark II (quite subtle in most of the cases but still a little bit better).
Talking about functions of course the 1Ds Mk III is waaaay better than the 5D Mark II, maybe it has something more also compared to the 5D Mark III speaking of functions, but there are also lot of other functions available solely on the 5D Mark III and not on the 1Ds Mark III.
So since the new camera is about 2 stops better than the new one, it would be obviously better than the 1Ds Mark III for noise performance and picture quality, plus you get a better AF and faster burst mode.

Well comparing the 5DII and the 1Ds3 upto iso400 the 1Ds3 is clearly better than the 5D2, not by much - but definitely not way worse (DxO measurements)

Better AF for the 5D3 - well more points and the AF point - 1Ds3 is essentially the same as the 1D4.  The 5D3 doesn't have the grip nor the weatherproofing. 1Ds3 has AF for f/8 ....

I would be surrpised if in real life you would see any difference in prints between the 5D2/3 and 1Ds3 using iso of 400 or less. It is all too easy to dismiss old technology when shiny new stuff comes out - and easy to overlook the features lost on the way

EchoLocation

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #393 on: March 11, 2012, 10:18:28 PM »
Anyone see that the D800 is at the #22 spot on the Amazon top sellers while the 5DIII has fallen to #83? Seeing the price in the dead center between 3-4k looks a lot less appetizing than seeing a $2xxx to start things off.
I think Canon really missed the boat with their initial price and I don't understand what caused them to think their camera was worth 500 dollars more than the Nikon System(when for the last few years they were firmly lower than Nikon in pricing.)

please, please, please save me the lectures on inflation, exchange rates, etc.... I am simply COMPARING the prices of one camera brand to another which happen to be from the same country.
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XanuFoto

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #394 on: March 11, 2012, 10:39:52 PM »
Anyone see that the D800 is at the #22 spot on the Amazon top sellers while the 5DIII has fallen to #83? Seeing the price in the dead center between 3-4k looks a lot less appetizing than seeing a $2xxx to start things off.
I think Canon really missed the boat with their initial price and I don't understand what caused them to think their camera was worth 500 dollars more than the Nikon System(when for the last few years they were firmly lower than Nikon in pricing.)

please, please, please save me the lectures on inflation, exchange rates, etc.... I am simply COMPARING the prices of one camera brand to another which happen to be from the same country.
those numbers are all over the place and its only one vendor. Most pros would buy from B&H or Adorama. Its too early to say who will come ahead. All I know is that many D700 guys are not upgrading and not many Canon guys with any serious array of lenses are not panicking and moving over.

EchoLocation

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #395 on: March 11, 2012, 11:18:44 PM »
Anyone see that the D800 is at the #22 spot on the Amazon top sellers while the 5DIII has fallen to #83? Seeing the price in the dead center between 3-4k looks a lot less appetizing than seeing a $2xxx to start things off.
I think Canon really missed the boat with their initial price and I don't understand what caused them to think their camera was worth 500 dollars more than the Nikon System(when for the last few years they were firmly lower than Nikon in pricing.)

please, please, please save me the lectures on inflation, exchange rates, etc.... I am simply COMPARING the prices of one camera brand to another which happen to be from the same country.
those numbers are all over the place and its only one vendor. Most pros would buy from B&H or Adorama. Its too early to say who will come ahead. All I know is that many D700 guys are not upgrading and not many Canon guys with any serious array of lenses are not panicking and moving over.
Very true. I doubt there is too much movement either way from one brand to another at this point.
Compared on the release dates though, I am surprised that the 5DIII is so far behind the D800 in the sales rankings.
If either brand comes up with a new FF camera between 2000 and 2500 dollars, I think that is what would cause massive sales. I'm still a little shocked that Canon didn't come up with a FF camera for the masses at a more reasonable price point. At 2300 dollars I personally know about 5-10 people who would consider it. All of these people currently use 5D's/60D's/7D or D7000's and don't want to pay 3000 dollars for a camera. It's a huge jump from 1200-1500(computer range of pricing) dollars to 3000 dollars(cheap car pricing.)
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Musouka

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #396 on: March 12, 2012, 05:38:26 AM »
Where is the option for I'll wait for the 5DIII's price to drop?

If the market thinks the competition provides the better value, Canon would have a hard time selling these and will have to lower down their prices... remember how the 50D's price dropped quickly after introduction because of the competition from the D300?

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #396 on: March 12, 2012, 05:38:26 AM »

dwischnewski

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #397 on: March 12, 2012, 05:55:17 AM »
For all those, who think that the price got higher, here is an interesting article: http://www.eos-network.com/2012/03/cameras-banks-and-the-financial-crisis-or-why-cameras-prices-seem-so-high-these-days/

Confirms my gut feelings. Thankfully someone did the math. Yet, I do not like the "new price" so much myself.

BillyBean

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #398 on: March 12, 2012, 06:55:36 AM »
For all those, who think that the price got higher, here is an interesting article: http://www.eos-network.com/2012/03/cameras-banks-and-the-financial-crisis-or-why-cameras-prices-seem-so-high-these-days/

Confirms my gut feelings. Thankfully someone did the math. Yet, I do not like the "new price" so much myself.


Interesting article - except for one thing: its almost completely irrelevent! Customers determine price, dependent on what they wish to pay, alongside the available supply. This is why DVDs and Bluerays are region coded, so that vendors can charge more in countries where people are willing to pay more.

Of course, cameras are not region coded, though Canon try hard with stuff like warranties to pretend they are. So they have choices: reduce volumes to ensure price maintenance, or charge less, or sell harder (promote value). Or a combination of these.

Otherwise, they risk losing money on each sale. It's not unheard of. But to be clear: exchange rates, taxes and suchlike impact Canon's margin, not the price, which is determined by supply and demand. Low demand, high supply -> lower price.

Give it 3 months and we'll see where things stand. The 7D had a huge price drop following launch.

gabriele

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #399 on: March 12, 2012, 08:09:23 AM »

Well comparing the 5DII and the 1Ds3 upto iso400 the 1Ds3 is clearly better than the 5D2, not by much - but definitely not way worse (DxO measurements)

Better AF for the 5D3 - well more points and the AF point - 1Ds3 is essentially the same as the 1D4.  The 5D3 doesn't have the grip nor the weatherproofing. 1Ds3 has AF for f/8 ....

I would be surrpised if in real life you would see any difference in prints between the 5D2/3 and 1Ds3 using iso of 400 or less. It is all too easy to dismiss old technology when shiny new stuff comes out - and easy to overlook the features lost on the way

Personally I stopped looking at DxO measurements and I firmly believe they're quite biased (usually they tend to give more to Nikon than Canon). Beside this, still looking at DxO, the 5D Mk II seems to perform better than the 1Ds3, especially in dynamic range. For low ISO they're pretty much the same, but then the 5D2 becomes better at high ISO.

I found several tests about the 5D2 sensor being better than the one on the 1Ds3, here's one:
http://www.akelstudio.com/blog/canon-1ds-mark-iii-v-s-5d-mark-ii-is-there-is-any-difference-in-image-quality-in-studio-test-run/

Note I'm talking only about picture quality, not functions, AF and so on which are better on the 1Ds3 of course.

In any case this makes the 5D3 better than the 1Ds3 since it is already better than the 5D2 by about 2 stops.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 08:26:42 AM by gabriele »
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Tijn

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #400 on: March 12, 2012, 08:52:20 AM »
I'm quite eager to see production models popping up and some thorough comparisons being done between the 5D III and the Nikon D800.

As it looks from here, the 5D mk3 is a great camera that combines increased full-frame ISO performance with very decent AF and better build quality. As such it's a clear upgrade from the 5D mk2 on the areas where improvement was most needed.

However, it's priced higher than expected (at $3500) and higher than the Nikon D800 ($3000) as well. Now these are two different cameras, but as they're major competitors it'll be worthwhile comparing them.

As it looks now, most likely Canon has the edge on high ISO performance and burst speed, while Nikon has the edge on low ISO performance and dynamic range. AF might be similarly decent in both bodies. But then, Nikon has a special edition (D800E) without an in-body AA filter, uncompressed video shooting, a lot higher resolution (downsampling will again reduce noise)...

If this turns out to be correct, then the Canon is more specialised for action photography whereas the Nikon has much better landscape photography potential, while still being able to do action (in good light). It's doubtful that this difference explains the $500 price difference, though.
Another thing to note is that Nikon does also have a body for professional action photography (the D4), but Canon now has no body for specialized landscape photography.

I think Canon pushed the price too high in the context of the D800. Not that it'll matter for me, I won't upgrade for at least a year or two anyhow. At the same time however, it does become interesting to see some functionality on both the Nikon and Canon sides. The Nikon D4 has backlit buttons and a function to automatically select a minimum shutter speed based on the focal length you're working at, during automatic exposure. Adding auto ISO to that could a lot of magic tricks. I'd love to see such functionality in the more affordable bodies, also the Canon ones. Can't be too difficult, but it'd be so nice to work with!

simonxu11

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #401 on: March 12, 2012, 08:58:04 AM »
For all those, who think that the price got higher, here is an interesting article: http://www.eos-network.com/2012/03/cameras-banks-and-the-financial-crisis-or-why-cameras-prices-seem-so-high-these-days/

Confirms my gut feelings. Thankfully someone did the math. Yet, I do not like the "new price" so much myself.
The article uses inflation and exchange rate into the calculation and says Canon is a Japanese company. Nothing wrong with that.
But the D700 was $2999 when it was announced in 2008, D800 is still $2999 today, so inflation, banks and the financial crisis have nothing to do with Nikon or Nikon is not a Japanese company??
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 09:11:43 AM by simonxu11 »

Musouka

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #402 on: March 12, 2012, 09:34:12 AM »
Here is the thing.... Nikon might not actually be sacrificing their margins with the $2999 price for D800. The cost of technology usually goes down with time. The cost of producing an FF sensor might be much lower than it was 4 years ago. I'm not saying that this is strictly the case but it's a possibility.

Another point: it's correct that the Yen is high. However, other currencies are cheaper for Japanese companies as a result. So it will actually be cheaper for Canon to buy materials from overseas for their products.

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #402 on: March 12, 2012, 09:34:12 AM »

XanuFoto

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #403 on: March 12, 2012, 09:38:48 AM »
Here is the thing.... Nikon might not actually be sacrificing their margins with the $2999 price for D800. The cost of technology usually goes down with time. The cost of producing an FF sensor might be much lower than it was 4 years ago. I'm not saying that this is strictly the case but it's a possibility.

Another point: it's correct that the Yen is high. However, other currencies are cheaper for Japanese companies as a result. So it will actually be cheaper for Canon to buy materials from overseas for their products.
Nikon does not make their own sensors. They buy them from Sony. Canon makes their own and I assume their prices would be lower then what Nikon pays. I don't know whats the reason for the Canons pricing. Maybe they really do not want to sell that many units at a loss.

Cali_PH

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #404 on: March 12, 2012, 10:42:36 AM »
Nikon does not make their own sensors. They buy them from Sony. Canon makes their own and I assume their prices would be lower then what Nikon pays. I don't know whats the reason for the Canons pricing. Maybe they really do not want to sell that many units at a loss.

I was thinking this could be the reason for the $500 cost difference, actually, or at least part of it.  Sony may have spent less $ than Canon on R&D for their sensor.  Plus I'm guessing they're using it themselves in their own cameras (or a variation of it?) and can recover costs from consumers that way, as well as selling to Nikon.  So to me it's possible what they're charging Nikon is less than Canon is trying to recover for both the R&D & manufacturing prices.  Just guessing, haven't seen anyone post any numbers.

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Re: Hugely Disappointed In 5D III Price
« Reply #404 on: March 12, 2012, 10:42:36 AM »