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Author Topic: Canon MP-E 65 Add on's & Tips  (Read 31124 times)

contrastny

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Re: Canon MP-E 65 Add on's & Tips
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2011, 01:34:18 PM »
I'm also planning on getting the MP-E 65 and the MT-24 EX.

For those of you that have used the Macroshot Dual Mount Bracket. Can you add more ball sockets to make each arm longer? I would like to make each one about 20"+ so I can use it on my 180mm f/3.5L macro lens, so the light source is coming from the sides.

« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 04:37:53 PM by contrastny »

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Re: Canon MP-E 65 Add on's & Tips
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2011, 01:34:18 PM »

revup67

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Re: Canon MP-E 65 Add on's & Tips
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2011, 12:22:46 AM »
Quote
Good point - I have pushed the lens into branches, flower parts, etc., and definitely recommend a UV filter.  I have a B+W MRC UV on there (as on all my lenses).  However, the filter prevents you from mounting the MT-24EX to the groove on the front of the lens.  My solution is to screw a Macrolite Adapter 58C onto the front threads of the filter.

Interesting on the filter.  I was able to put the MT 24EX on the MP-E 65 and then screw the UV on the macro lite.  I wound up getting the 58C but don't know if there is a need a this point.  Anyone have any ideas how else I can use the 58C when the UV screws on to the lens or the flash after its on the lens.  Don't get its purpose (the 58C)
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Rev
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon MP-E 65 Add on's & Tips
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2011, 07:55:35 AM »
Interesting on the filter.  I was able to put the MT 24EX on the MP-E 65 and then screw the UV on the macro lite.  I wound up getting the 58C but don't know if there is a need a this point.  Anyone have any ideas how else I can use the 58C when the UV screws on to the lens or the flash after its on the lens.  Don't get its purpose (the 58C)

No, you don't need the 58C if you put the MT-24EX on the lens, then screw the filter onto the threads of the MT-24EX mount ring - Canon 14-24 suggested that early in the thread.  The purpose of the 58C is so you can put the MT-24EX on the lens after the filter (i.e. the filter is screwed into the lens threads, which blocks the MT-24EX mount ring from reaching it's groove, and adding the 58C to the front threads of the filter provides that groove). 

There are two reasons I prefer using the 58C rather than screwing the filter onto the MT-24EX mount ring threads - one optical and one practical.  The optical reason is that it's best to have a filter as close to the front element as possible, since that reduces flare and the associated loss of contrast.  I'm not sure how much of a real-world issue that would be especially with a good multicoated filter, but in theory if you're shooting a reflective subject with the flash it might make a difference. 

The practical reason is that I use the MT-24EX with two different lenses - the MP-E 65mm and the 100mm L IS Macro lenses (the latter has 67mm threads, so the Macrolite 67C is required for the MT-24EX).   Having Macrolite adapters on both lenses make it easier - both lenses are stored with filter then adapter then cap (I bought a 58mm cap for the 100L), and I can move the MT-24EX back and forth easily.  The 100L macro often gets used without flash, and if I had a UV filter on the MT-24EX mount ring, I'd have to remove it for use on the 100L to avoid having two UV filters with a gap between (which would be more likely to impact optical performance), then replace it to use the flash on the MP-E 65.  This way, I don't have to screw on/off filters or adapters to use the flash with either lens.
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revup67

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Re: Canon MP-E 65 Add on's & Tips
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2011, 09:54:19 PM »
Neuroanatomist:  I had a hunch you were going to say all of that.  And follow each of your points / reasons for the 58C and 67C though one question remains to be answered:  with the 67C stepping down to the 58mm Macro 24 EX Flash..any vignetting or other issues that might occur while stepping down?  As I've got the 100mm IS USM L 2.8 and don't see much need for a flash (at least at this point) unless you feel its imperative.

Rev
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Rev
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon MP-E 65 Add on's & Tips
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2011, 06:07:28 AM »
Neuroanatomist:  I had a hunch you were going to say all of that.  And follow each of your points / reasons for the 58C and 67C though one question remains to be answered:  with the 67C stepping down to the 58mm Macro 24 EX Flash..any vignetting or other issues that might occur while stepping down?  As I've got the 100mm IS USM L 2.8 and don't see much need for a flash (at least at this point) unless you feel its imperative.

No vignetting on the 100 L Macro.  If you look at the front of that lens, you'll see that (much like the MP-E 65mm) the front element is much smaller than the filter threads - all that 'dead space' leaves plenty of buffer against vignetting. 

Depending on the subject, I find flash to be helpful with the 100 L macro as well, though not as 'necessary' as with the MP-E 65mm.  Yes, the 100mm L has IS - but, keep in mind that IS is less effective at macro distances - that 4-stop IS only functions as a 2-stop IS at 1:1.  Also, there's often a need to stop down for more DoF and at 1:1 the apparent aperture loses 2 stops.  So, if you're taking a 1:1 shot at f/11, you're getting the amount of light you'd get at f/22 at 'normal' subject distances, and you've only got two stops of IS to help with handholding, and I prefer to keep the ISO as low as possible.  The other factor is that subjects can move, and IS works by allowing slower shutter speeds - taking a shot of flowers on your dining table is fine with a long exposure, but shooting a flower moving in the wind, or a moving insect, mean longer shutter speeds result in subject motion blur. 

Here's a shot from the 100mm L with flash.  It was outdoors on a breezy overcast day, and I was under a canopy of trees - not enough light for a fast enough shutter, short of going to ISO 6400 (not somewhere I ever go!).


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revup67

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Re: Canon MP-E 65 Add on's & Tips
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2011, 12:07:52 PM »
You are right about all you say.   I had forgotten about the 2 stop vs. 4 stop with macro despite its a hybrid IS and sure, 2.8 is certainly not suffice for all situations especially in greater need for DoF.  Have you tried using Hi Speed Flash sync with the 24EX?  or when you shoot are you in manual mode mostly ?

Ok, now I get the reason for no vignetting - thanks for that.  I did notice the narrower barrel at the base of the lens so the 58 to 67 as you say has no bearing.  Good to know.  Flake said he was tired of getting a variety of macro rings for each of his lenses that might warrant the 24EX.  That's one of the main reasons he got the Dual Macro Flash Holder.  of course it provides a greater amount of flexibility however he stated its a bit cumbersome to carry.

I am thinking of putting the camera (7D) in AI Servo or AI Focus full time this should help mitigate that moving subject in the wind syndrome

All these options are good but there's so many options one can get easily overwhelmed when the moment calls for the photo.

Rev
Thanks
Rev
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon MP-E 65 Add on's & Tips
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2011, 12:34:01 PM »
Have you tried using Hi Speed Flash sync with the 24EX?  or when you shoot are you in manual mode mostly ?

I haven't yet had a need to go beyond the max sync speed (1/200 for the 5DII where I usually use the macro lenses).

I am thinking of putting the camera (7D) in AI Servo or AI Focus full time this should help mitigate that moving subject in the wind syndrome

If you're shooting macro on the 7D and not manually focusing, you should absolutely use AI Servo mode (not AI Focus) especially for handheld shots.  On the 7D, Canon implemented a special Macro Servo AF mode - when you are using a Canon USM macro lens and focusing at 1:3 (one-third life size) or greater, and in AI Servo AF, that mode is automatically activated.  It increases the sampling rate for the servo AF to better correct for rapid but small changes in focus (as opposed to the normal function of servo mode where a subject is being tracked through the scene).  In some ways, the 100 L macro on the 7D is the best possible handheld macro setup for ambient light shots - the hybrid IS reduces the effect of angular and lateral motion, and the 7D's Macro Servo AF mode helps control motion in the 'Z' direction (toward/away from the subject).  The only trade-off is that your 1:1 image captures less of the subject than with a FF camera.
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Re: Canon MP-E 65 Add on's & Tips
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2011, 12:34:01 PM »

revup67

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Re: Canon MP-E 65 Add on's & Tips
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2011, 05:48:43 PM »
Great piece of information.  I never saw that blip on AI Servo for Macro.  There's no listing in the 7D LCD with respect to a name called Macro Ai Servo (I have 100mm on now with Ai Servo in place) but I would assume if you are in AF with AI servo on, it just kicks in - there's no menu listing per say.  for some reason I can get in closer to the subject in Manual then with AF spot metering.  The lens can't focus closer then say about 4 or 5 or inches in AF (I forget what the min. focus distance is)

Correct on the trade off 1.6 with the APS-C vs. FF

PS - if you recall where you read that info please send it along - thanks for the help.  You def. know your stuff
Thanks
Rev
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon MP-E 65 Add on's & Tips
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2011, 07:26:31 AM »
Great piece of information.  I never saw that blip on AI Servo for Macro.  There's no listing in the 7D LCD with respect to a name called Macro Ai Servo (I have 100mm on now with Ai Servo in place) but I would assume if you are in AF with AI servo on, it just kicks in - there's no menu listing per say.  for some reason I can get in closer to the subject in Manual then with AF spot metering.  The lens can't focus closer then say about 4 or 5 or inches in AF (I forget what the min. focus distance is)

Correct on the trade off 1.6 with the APS-C vs. FF

PS - if you recall where you read that info please send it along - thanks for the help.  You def. know your stuff

For most lenses, it's possible to manually focus a little closer than AF is possible, and a little less than the specified MFD.

No, Macro Servo AF isn't mentioned in the manual, or anywhere else on the Canon site as far as I can see.  It just kicks in automatically with the right lens at the right distance.  A trainer from Canon mentions it in a B&H video - click this link, then launch the Part 2 of 3 video and start at 11:45 into the video.
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revup67

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Re: Canon MP-E 65 Add on's & Tips
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2011, 01:44:56 PM »
Wound up watching that whole video thanks for sharing - there were some good reminders in there especially on AF modes in which I tend to lean on center focus more so and perhaps should not.
Thanks
Rev
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Flake

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Re: Canon MP-E 65 Add on's & Tips
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2011, 06:16:37 AM »
Can I suggest that this unit is useful with the MT24 EX http://www.amazon.com/YongNuo-External-Battery-SF-18-Batteries/dp/B003JEU83I  especially when hand holding.  The number of times I've shot off a few exposures only to find they are black because the flash hasn't fired.

The MT24 EX is an old design and after a full power discharge it can take up to 10 seconds to recharge depending on the batteries, the SF18 battery pack can reduce this by more than half.  When using less power there is normally no lost shots waiting for the flash to recharge.

Depending on your own quality standards you might find that as little as 1 in ten shots are worth keeping, macro tends to have a much higher failure rate than ordinary photography hence the need for lots of shots. (this applies mainly to hand held with flash).

Flake

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Re: Canon MP-E 65 Add on's & Tips
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2011, 04:57:40 PM »
I wonder if anyone has seen or better still owns one of these http://www.cognisys-inc.com/stackshot/stackshot.php electronically programmable automated macro rail for $475.

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Re: Canon MP-E 65 Add on's & Tips
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2011, 07:25:39 PM »
Seen it, and it's on my wish list but not too high up. Sounds ideal for use with the MP-E where the remote control focus method isn't available, assuming the subject stays still long enough.
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Re: Canon MP-E 65 Add on's & Tips
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2011, 07:25:39 PM »