Canon MP-E 65 Add on's & Tips

[revup67]

To Flake and neuroanatomist:  thanks again -  I was considering the diffusers by Sto-Fen - if I got those should I still proceed with the flex mount that Flake recommended?  The mount looks fantastic and an excellent idea.

That's really disheartening to hear that at 4x and 5x the 24ex doesn't do a sufficient job. 

It appears it is safe to say that with the 24EX and MP-E 65 you still need additional accessories.  Here's the potential shopping list so far;  UV, 58C, Sto-Fen diffusers, Macro Rail, Angle View Finder, MacroShot  Dual Mount Bracket for 24EX flash..

Flake:  with the Macroshot Dual Mount Bracket - you probably would never use the 58C adapter ring unless you were shooting with original flash mount and not going past 1-3x as stated.

[revup67]

PS apparently others have also complained about the MT 24EX - this guy writes up an excellent article
http://lifeonsixlegs.wordpress.com/2010/06/23/goodbye-canon-mt-24ex/

after 2 years he gave up and got the following F-2 Macro bracket with his 580EX II
http://www.tripodhead.com/products/flash-bracket-macro-brackets.cfm

[Flake]

The Stofen diffusers don't work that well because diffusers need distance to work effectively, so save some money there, and don't bother with an angle finder as live view is much much better and you can have up to 10x magnification to get absolute critical focus.

Using live view you will be able to use the lens (with flash) hand held and live view flips the mirror up for you.

The 58C isn't needed if you're going to attach the MT 24 to the Mpe 65mm as it is designed to fit without it.  One of the reasons for the flash holder gizmo is to avoid innumerable 'C' adaptors that are required for the 100mm L macro, 180mm macro and several other lenses.  The other plus is that it can be used for other lenses with a 77mm thread.

[CR Backup Admin]

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Using live view you will be able to use the lens (with flash) hand held and live view flips the mirror up for you.

You really believe that you can use a MP-E 65 at full magnification hand held???

[Flake]

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Using live view you will be able to use the lens (with flash) hand held and live view flips the mirror up for you.

You really believe that you can use a MP-E 65 at full magnification hand held???

Now that's not quite what I said!  However it starts at 1X and goes up to 5X, and it's certainly useable hand held up to about 3X, and then it depends on how stable you can hold the camera.

5X is difficult to use even with a tripod.

[lol]

5x is barely usable hand held if you use flash. Finding the subject and placing the non existent DoF can be tricky.

[Isurus]

I use Really Right Stuff's macro rail and flash brackets, which work great.  Picture of the setup (for the most part - don't use the tripod shown or the lens.  this is just an example photo off their site.) can be found here:

http://reallyrightstuff.com/mmrrs/Images/library/anemone-gear-labeled.jpg

I like using the bracket as it takes the flash heads off the lens and gives more freedom.  That being said, it takes a bit to get used to this rig given the size and complexity.

Edit:  I should have also mentioned that RRS gear is expensive.  The rig shown is well over $1K excluding the Canon gear.

[revup67]

To Flake:  I agree with the Live View, it's even better than the mirror lock up as two motion vibrations are removed from the Mirror and (Mechanical Focal Plane) shutter according to an article (with illustration) that I had read.
go here for more insight:  http://krebsmicro.com/Canon_EFSC/index.html
The writer also stated to use Live View (active) with Silent Mode turned On which induces the electronic first shutter curtain.  This gets the least amount of vibration possible of course depending on camera model in that those features exist.

Also, thanks for the tip on those Sto-Fens diffusers as I was ready to acquire those through 47st photo but from what you say not worth while.  I have not decided on the Dual Macro flash holder yet as the lens and flash have not arrived but I am leaning on it vs. others I've seen which are more $$ and less diversification - the one you recommended appears to be the best one out there.

Rev

[neuroanatomist]

You really believe that you can use a MP-E 65 at full magnification hand held???

Xmas tree and ornament - both of these were shot handheld at 5x, using the MP-E 65mm and MT-24EX on a 5DII.

[revup67]

That's pretty cool you were able to hand hold the MP-E 65 @ 5x.  Someone else in this thread said it could not be done.  What F-stop did you use and I am assuming the MT 24EX flash was connected  -thanks again

[neuroanatomist]

That's pretty cool you were able to hand hold the MP-E 65 @ 5x.  Someone else in this thread said it could not be done.  What F-stop did you use and I am assuming the MT 24EX flash was connected  -thanks again

It's do-able.  Both were shot at 1/60 s and f/14 with the MT-24EX (mounted on the included ring, not a separate bracket).  Basically I just move in close and then rock slowly back until I hit the focal plane I want, then press the shutter. It helps to pick a subject where there's not just one critical plane of focus that makes sense - it would be harder shooting an insect where you needed to hit the eye, for example - but I've seen plenty of handheld examples of that from others (haven't had the flash long enough to try it, myself...yet). 

[revup67]

Well its comforting to know all of this - quite helpful especially the rocking idea - thanks.  I received the lens and 24ex flash today.  Still waiting for the 58C.  Did a few test shots on a tripod which I will post to the MP-E 65 lens group.  All in all, the lens is everything I thought it would be - just fascinating.  I am still contemplating the dual macro flash gizmo Flake wrote about but it appears with certainty that a macro rail is essential especially if focus stacking or no flash is being used to have the ultimate control.  Did you say you had acquired a rail?  someone mentioned the really right stuff rail but geez after blowing $1600 who wants to spend another 6 bills on the rail when those $50 china rails apparently work well according to to the reviews I've read..open to any thoughts? 

[lol]

I use the cheap China rails and it has worked ok for me. More thoughts on it here. I don't doubt the more expensive ones are better, but I'm not complaining for the price I paid for mine. The only thing I'm thinking of adding to it is a gear head for the tripod to give some additional fine degrees of adjustment.

[Isurus]

What I like about the RRS rails is the precision.  Even at 5x, there is enough precision in the rail to the focus exactly where you want it.  My experience with some of the cheaper rails is that they work ok at 1x or sometimes even 2x, but once you get to the higher magnifications sometimes they aren't precise enough to actually let you get focus exactly where you want it. (for example, lets say focus is behind the eye of an insect.  On the cheaper rails, sometimes the smallest allowable movement in an attempt to get the eye in focus will now put focus in front of the eye).

No doubt the RRS rails are quite expensive, but they are built very, very well.  Also, if you don't want to drop 6 bills, you can get one rail which would allow for forward and aft movement for 3 to 4 bills.  That being said, given the price, it still may be worth it to try a cheaper one first to see if it meets your needs.  You can always flip it latter if you decide to go RRS.

[neuroanatomist]

it appears with certainty that a macro rail is essential especially if focus stacking or no flash is being used

Definitely for focus stacking.  The MP-E 65mm doesn't have separate focus and 'zoom' rings - there's one ring and rotating it changes both focal plane and magnification at the same time, so if you 'adjust focus' you're also changing magnification (making focus stacking useless) - so, you need the rail for that use.

But, you can use the MP-E 65mm without a macro rail if not using a flash, depending on the subject and your patience...  This was shot tripod-mounted, with the lighting provided by a handheld Maglite LED flashlight.


EOS 5D Mark II, MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x Macro @ 4x, 0.8 s, f/10, ISO 200

Did you say you had acquired a rail?  someone mentioned the really right stuff rail but geez after blowing $1600 who wants to spend another 6 bills on the rail when those $50 china rails apparently work well according to to the reviews I've read..open to any thoughts?

I don't have a rail, but will probably order one today.  The one I've been planning to get is the Velbon Super Mag Slider - well-reviewed and less expensive than the Novoflex/Kirk/RRS offerings.  I shoot macro sometimes, but it's not my primary subject, and like Manfrotto tripods, the Velbon rail seems to be a good compromise between quality and value. The problem has been that B&H has been out of stock due to lack of supply from the manufacturer, every time I've looked over the past few months.  But your question inspired me to check again, and they have them now.  Thanks for the nudge!