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Author Topic: Canon Teases Exclusive Screening at NAB 2012  (Read 14145 times)

tjc320

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Re: Canon Teases Exclusive Screening at NAB 2012
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2012, 10:15:45 PM »
Swap a new censor into the 1dx and you get your 4k dslr.  I agree with the previous posters who say it will be 4-6K in price. They want to undercut RED.

I hope they don't just make a DSLR for video. If you shoot video you don't want a dslr you want a video camera. There is nothing about DSLRs that I like except the video function. The form factor and features of a DSLR are not convenient for video.

If it is directed towards the film world and undercut the RED than I think that they would have to make something more modular. Possibly something that looks like a dslr but with more video options. Take out the mirror, add more video functionality. Photographers already have their camera with the 5DIII or the 1DX so why even bother making this camera for photography?

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Re: Canon Teases Exclusive Screening at NAB 2012
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2012, 10:15:45 PM »

Musouka

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Re: Canon Teases Exclusive Screening at NAB 2012
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2012, 05:29:26 AM »
Let us hope it's something Titanic  :P

Brungard

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Re: Canon Teases Exclusive Screening at NAB 2012
« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2012, 09:52:43 AM »
Considering TheVerge received an invite to this event, I find it difficult to stomach anything less than a gear announcement. I've never read of a film screening on any major tech blog, ever. Yet I kind of hope there isn't an announcement, as my 5dmk3 is currently on its way  :D

Catastrophile

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Re: Canon Teases Exclusive Screening at NAB 2012
« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2012, 10:24:33 AM »
The only story I can see continuing is a sad one for Canon, in which they are being continually beaten in sensor image quality by Sony-made sensors. and to add insult to injury they have recently become beaten even in MP/resolution (APS-C 18MP vs 24, FF 22 vs 36). I would rather this story not continue like this, if I were Canon.

gene_can_sing

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Re: Canon Teases Exclusive Screening at NAB 2012
« Reply #34 on: March 12, 2012, 02:41:03 PM »
Canon needs to come out with a video answer to the Sony FS-100, which has stolen a lot of business from Canon on the large sensor video market. Canon could have owned that new market on tails of the 5D2, but they slept on it and Sony snuck a lot of customers out from under them. especially now, since there's an electronic adaptor for the FS-100 that will take all Canon lenses and even the IS will work!

Ironically, one of the biggest complaints aired about the FS-100, is that many do not like the lunch box, traditional video camera body. DSLR's have such nicer ergonomics.

The 4K VDSLR needs to come out in April, to stop the Sony bleeding, especially now that Sony can use all of Canon's lenses.

Axilrod

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Re: Canon Teases Exclusive Screening at NAB 2012
« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2012, 03:45:42 PM »
I hope they don't just make a DSLR for video. If you shoot video you don't want a dslr you want a video camera. There is nothing about DSLRs that I like except the video function. The form factor and features of a DSLR are not convenient for video.

If it is directed towards the film world and undercut the RED than I think that they would have to make something more modular. Possibly something that looks like a dslr but with more video options. Take out the mirror, add more video functionality. Photographers already have their camera with the 5DIII or the 1DX so why even bother making this camera for photography?

This camera is being released under the Canon Cinema EOS line, I don't think Canon meant to give you the impression that it was geared towards photographers.  I suspect they are making this in the form of a DSLR to keep costs down.  And plus, many 5DII/7D shooters have spent thousands on rigs and other stuff to make their DSLR's function more like video cameras, I think they are taking advantage of the fact that people have gotten used to shooting video with DSLR's.  Heck even the C300 isn't the ideal shape for a video camera, neither is the Scarlet or the FS100, you still need rigs and whatnot.  I think the days of the big "sling over the shoulder" cameras are over.

I don't care what shape it is, if it shoots 4K and is reasonably priced, I'm all over it.  I'm guessing it'll be more or less a DSLR body with a different sensor, most likely no built-in ND's, no XLR inputs, no detachable monitor, maybe no HD-SDI out (that stuff would put it too close to the C300).
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 03:57:02 PM by Axilrod »
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Axilrod

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Re: Canon Teases Exclusive Screening at NAB 2012
« Reply #36 on: March 12, 2012, 03:47:13 PM »
Canon needs to come out with a video answer to the Sony FS-100, which has stolen a lot of business from Canon on the large sensor video market. Canon could have owned that new market on tails of the 5D2, but they slept on it and Sony snuck a lot of customers out from under them. especially now, since there's an electronic adaptor for the FS-100 that will take all Canon lenses and even the IS will work!

Ironically, one of the biggest complaints aired about the FS-100, is that many do not like the lunch box, traditional video camera body. DSLR's have such nicer ergonomics.

The 4K VDSLR needs to come out in April, to stop the Sony bleeding, especially now that Sony can use all of Canon's lenses.

I agree, and I think a camera capable of 4K with a $4k-$6k price tag would probably take back some of those Sony users.
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Re: Canon Teases Exclusive Screening at NAB 2012
« Reply #36 on: March 12, 2012, 03:47:13 PM »

Axilrod

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Re: Canon Teases Exclusive Screening at NAB 2012
« Reply #37 on: March 12, 2012, 03:54:49 PM »
This worries me a lot. Am I the only person in the world who wants an awesome hybrid camera? What I was hoping the 1DX would be. There's no headphones and no clean hdmi out. It's an awesome stills camera though. Then if you want more video features you have to jump (if you stay with canon) to the C300 which can't take a great photograph.

I don't want a cheap 4k concept camera. I want a $12-$13k sick HYBRID DSLR that does everything we know canon is capable of doing at this price range. I work in some extreme environments and my clients include Red Bull; I'm not usually in a position to have two bodies, or even two photographers, in some locations because sometimes you get the shot by pure magic. With Canon EVERY SHOOT HAS BECOME A COMPROMISE.

So I was rather hoping the concept camera would be the top of their hybrid line. From many comments here I'd say I might be wrong, or that the date has nothing to do with the physical camera but a film. Maybe canon won't make this camera because my segment is too small. I think it's because they sell pro video gear too.

I have four busted 5D mkiis and have to reinvest right now. (I also have a broken 5D underwater housing) The timing is very interesting for me right now. RIGHT NOW the best hybrid camera appears, to me, to be the Nikon D4. And part of me is suspicious that Nikon have decided that because they don't produce video cameras at all, they aren't going to hold back.

I've pre-ordered two D4s and some glass and will see how that fares.

DISCLAIMER: (1) I am not trying to start some sort of Nikon / Canon war here. I am really just expressing my frustration at what might seem to be a unique situation (not IMO at least). I am VERY interested to hear from others in a similar situation. (2) My studio does a lot of commercial work too an we've enjoyed the relatively high bit rate on the Canon 5D mkii despite the moire etc. see our work at www.jtography.com

I'm only entertaining Nikon because we'll use the atoms ninjas on safer sets and in studio for clean hdmi - Something I felt that canon out to have offered us right now. Oh and I'm looking forward to sharing the live view on clients' iPads on set too. I felt that was a neat way of circumnavigating the small screen issues of DSLRs. ...there were a lot of factors.

Thoughts?

I agree about people having to compromise, the 5D/7D can really be a pain in the ass on shoots.  But at the same time, I just don't see a way that they could make a top notch still and top notch video camera in one and keep it at a reasonable price.  There will always be people that only want a camera for stills and only want it for video, and those people would end up paying for features that they just don't want/need/use.  It would be cool, but I think at this level people buying the cameras are professionals for the most part, and most pros either shoot photo or video, but not both.  And plus, from a business standpoint it's better for people to have to buy two bodies than 1.  But if you want the best of both worlds, and are willing to spend $12-$13k, just buy a 1DX (or 5DIII) and the CDSLR, problem solved.

As for it being a "cheap 4k concept camera," a camera is only a concept until it's released, so I don't get what you mean by that.  But I think the fact that it's being released under the Cinema EOS line says it all, I don't think it will be a particularly special camera in terms of stills.  It's a video camera, and the first DSLR that Canon will be releasing that's truly video-oriented...    It's about damn time.
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HurtinMinorKey

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Re: Canon Teases Exclusive Screening at NAB 2012
« Reply #38 on: March 12, 2012, 03:59:54 PM »
The 5D3 is basically a merging of the 5D2 and 7D cameras and lines.  The 1Dx is now the sports action camera, so the space remains for the "Studio" version of a DSLR with a full-featured video spec, in a 1D-type body...

I agree that the 5d3 can be seen as the merge of the 5D and 7D lines.

But I think that the new cinema DSLR will be more of a video-first, stills-second cam, and therefore not a serious studio portrait option. 

Axilrod

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Re: Canon Teases Exclusive Screening at NAB 2012
« Reply #39 on: March 12, 2012, 04:04:57 PM »
The question then will be will they bother?

True 4K HD is still at least 4-5 years away.
Even LG's new 4K tv's are of the 3840x2160 resolution (or if you play back a 3D blue ray disc you get dual 1080p screens instead of dual 540p on a standard Full HD 1080 screen when playing 3D)

Once there is a market for such stupidly high resolutions, i.e. when we have somewhere to display them where we don't have to sit on top of the screen to see the benefit. Then and only then will companies like Canon will come out with a true 4K camera.

It will be 8MP, there is no need for any more than that, its not meant to be a stills camera and the pictures you see are basically production stills to help with lighting and framing etc.

They don't need to be super detailed.

They are already making 8K sensors, I don't think 4K is that out of the question.  And as a few people mentioned, the benefits lie in the cropping and the ability to create artificial movements from a static shot.  For instance, I can scale up footage from a 5DII to about 115% before it starts to look too pixelated.  If it was 4k, I could probably get away with 180% and still have 1920x1080 resolution.  I could then pan from one side of the frame to another without going off the image, which is not possible with a 1920x1080 image.  People always say they need more MP on their still cameras so they can recompose and crop into it more, this is no different.  Yeah the higher resolution aspect is great, but there are many more advantages.  And plus, even if the final output is only 1080p, the resolution is still there, and it will look better than true 1080p outputted to 1080p.
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SPG

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Re: Canon Teases Exclusive Screening at NAB 2012
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2012, 11:05:41 PM »
4k is nice, but I'd be perfectly happy getting the C300 image quality in a much cheaper camera. If that has to be a DSLR, then fine. I'll buy.

HurtinMinorKey

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Re: Canon Teases Exclusive Screening at NAB 2012
« Reply #41 on: March 13, 2012, 11:39:16 AM »
4k is nice, but I'd be perfectly happy getting the C300 image quality in a much cheaper camera. If that has to be a DSLR, then fine. I'll buy.

4k, yes. Better DR and low light performance than the c300? Doubtful. 

Shawn_Lights

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Re: Canon Teases Exclusive Screening at NAB 2012
« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2012, 11:16:28 AM »
4k is nice, but I'd be perfectly happy getting the C300 image quality in a much cheaper camera. If that has to be a DSLR, then fine. I'll buy.

4k, yes. Better DR and low light performance than the c300? Doubtful.

Exactly. That's all they need to do to justify the difference in price. "This shoots 4k and is awesome, but the C300 gives you more range and better low light performance". Pros will go with the C300, indie filmmakers will grab the 4k camera.

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Re: Canon Teases Exclusive Screening at NAB 2012
« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2012, 11:16:28 AM »

Axilrod

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Re: Canon Teases Exclusive Screening at NAB 2012
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2012, 11:43:41 AM »
4k is nice, but I'd be perfectly happy getting the C300 image quality in a much cheaper camera. If that has to be a DSLR, then fine. I'll buy.

4k, yes. Better DR and low light performance than the c300? Doubtful.

Exactly. That's all they need to do to justify the difference in price. "This shoots 4k and is awesome, but the C300 gives you more range and better low light performance". Pros will go with the C300, indie filmmakers will grab the 4k camera.

I think people will still see the advantages in the C300, the built-in ND filters, built-in XLR inputs, HD-SDI out, external monitor that looks gorgeous and can easily be repositioned.  I played with it the other day and was seriously impressed with the quality, it looked pretty damn amazing. 

The CDSLR will be the compromise, with awesome 4k resolution but will require lots of add-ons to make it function like a video camera.  This is fine with me since I've spent so much on rigs/monitors/external sound. 
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leGreve

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Re: Canon Teases Exclusive Screening at NAB 2012
« Reply #44 on: March 29, 2012, 03:02:04 PM »
The show just got even more interesting.... Rumor has it that Sony is about to sidewind the C300 before it's even catched on:

FS700 to be announced.... 4K camera, same amazing form factor as FS100, build-in ND, 3G-SDI out.
If it has all the basics that the FS100 has (build-in mixer, 2 xlr ports, FMU dock, can use Canon lenses) and add the above, this will be an amazing camera... I even now dream that it will be able to shoot 2k 120fps... but that is just me :D

Suggested price point:

8.000 euro

Goodbye C300................

Now I'm even more convinced I wont go the Canon way.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 03:06:57 PM by leGreve »
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Re: Canon Teases Exclusive Screening at NAB 2012
« Reply #44 on: March 29, 2012, 03:02:04 PM »