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Author Topic: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?  (Read 119877 times)

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #435 on: July 13, 2012, 07:09:40 PM »
I think Bosman is referring to the rate of return.  Storage size goes up drastically (22mp vs 36mp) with highly diminishing returns in IQ.  So why do it?

May I suggest that with more MP more thinking takes place before the shutter is pressed?
That is certainly true with MF digital.

See, if you shoot lets say...weddings, there are moment where thinking is aplied, and crafted, and applied again, all while trying to control chaos around you.  But, there are other points, at receptions and during the ceremony where you as a tog have to be in the moment, and you know what, at that point instinct and experience take over.  That's where you shoot in 3 shoot bursts to make sure you get the perfect expression ...and thats also where your filling up your cards.  Also, if you take a photo-journalistic approach, and those who do that tend to hand over 600-1000 EDITED images to the client, much of the time from a primary and secondary shooter.  How many overall shots do you do to get that kind of return?  Generally it will be in the vicinity of 1500-3000 images!!!!  a high mp camera just isn't suited to that kind of work unless you can tone the files down a bit.  and on the d800, they don't have a sRAW or mRAW option, its RAW or crop and sorry, I'd rather use sRAW for filler shots than crop mode.  This kind of issue though is only gonna be important for shooter who who shoot a lot, like wedding photographers.  If your a studio/commercial tog, more of your shooting will be spent setting up the shoot than actually shooting ---its an apples to tomatoes comparison.     
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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #435 on: July 13, 2012, 07:09:40 PM »

bdunbar79

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #436 on: July 13, 2012, 07:16:51 PM »
I think Bosman is referring to the rate of return.  Storage size goes up drastically (22mp vs 36mp) with highly diminishing returns in IQ.  So why do it?

May I suggest that with more MP more thinking takes place before the shutter is pressed?
That is certainly true with MF digital.

You're inferring then, that with less mp, less thinking is going on.  I beg to differ as I have a 16mp 1D Mark IV and I can tell you I think no less than if I had a 36mp camera.  I put great thought into my photography, regardless of camera.  Yes I also have an EOS-3, which hurts my brain sometimes  ;D

Interesting - ff fans say with big mps we can crop out the picture and also we would have to think harder  before taking the picture. Sounds like there is a gap in the thinking there

Brian, there was no thinking going on by that person's comments.  None.
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Razor2012

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #437 on: July 13, 2012, 07:27:06 PM »
People just don't get that these are 2 very different cameras offering 2 different shooting styles.
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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #438 on: July 13, 2012, 10:06:35 PM »
This thread is going on 30 pages. Seriously? :|
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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #439 on: July 15, 2012, 01:52:46 AM »
I agreed with you. 5dm3 is better than d800 bcoz the low light perfomance is great, also a 22MP sensor is enough to do all the work

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #440 on: July 15, 2012, 02:55:52 AM »

Razor2012

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #441 on: July 15, 2012, 02:21:34 PM »
Exactly.
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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #441 on: July 15, 2012, 02:21:34 PM »

Chewy734

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #442 on: July 15, 2012, 03:05:47 PM »
is that Abe Lincoln beating a horse?  ???

Bosman

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #443 on: July 15, 2012, 03:51:10 PM »
If you like going thru hard drives like water then the D800 is for you. 1000 raw images fills 750gig of hd space. No thanks. The buffer is terribly slow too, thats why they dont offer medium raw because med raw would slow it to a crawl.

Actually that is not correct.  If you shoot lossless compressed, which is the default, it averages about 45MB per shot doing typical landscape type shooting of high detail subjects.  I went to one of my D800E directories and found 270 NEF file that averaged 45MB each for a total of 11.5GB size according to windows.  If you multiply the 270 by 3.7 you'll get about 1,000 files.  Taking that number a 1,000 NEF lossless compressed files gives you 42.59 GB.  You are off by more than an order of mangnitude.   

On an average my 5D3 takes about 28-30 MB in size.  Assuming again 1,000 files, the 5D3 takes about 28 to 30 GB for 1000 files.  The net difference between the 5D3 and the Nikon D800E is about 12-15 GB for every 1,000  raw files or about the same percentage that 36 mega-pixels is larger than 22 mega-pixels.
I wasn't talking about compressed lossless was i?

Also given how the buffer drops dramatically in med raw settings its enough to tell you thats why they eliminated the option from the already slow buffer on the d800. I would probably want to throw it at the ground trying to shoot a wedding. Much like that time a guy convinced me the 1d was a superior camera to a 5d which is true but given that the buffer was so painful i missed shots at weddings where emotion took place. You dont want to miss those moments so you do shoot a burst. At least after i sold it and got the 5d in the end it was so much faster than the 1d but not wowsers fast just enough for what i did.
I don't need to be patronized over how i should think more to get shots, thats what landscape photographers do. I always compose my shots but during peak moments i don't want to concern myself with all of the elements. Those are the wedding photographers who miss the moments, the ones you don't hire to shoot your wedding.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 04:02:17 PM by Bosman »
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Ivar

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #444 on: July 16, 2012, 03:29:01 PM »
It is well understood the value of the 5D3 for weddings. But the same goes for other specialties like studio-landscape where the D800 does better. Different niche, different choice. I bought a 5D2 exactly for these reasons - big "unusable" file size for the time it was released, also very slow camera.

Now I really enjoy the true upgrade to my 5D2 (sorry for the JPG artifacts, also note not so good lens and it was handheld though quite high shutter speed):


D_Rochat

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #445 on: July 16, 2012, 03:42:10 PM »
It is well understood the value of the 5D3 for weddings. But the same goes for other specialties like studio-landscape where the D800 does better. Different niche, different choice. I bought a 5D2 exactly for these reasons - big "unusable" file size for the time it was released, also very slow camera.

Now I really enjoy the true upgrade to my 5D2 (sorry for the JPG artifacts, also note not so good lens and it was handheld though quite high shutter speed):



Good for you (seriously). You needed different tool, so you went and got it. Who cares about brand loyalty. Get what suits your needs.

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #446 on: July 16, 2012, 05:52:14 PM »
It is well understood the value of the 5D3 for weddings. But the same goes for other specialties like studio-landscape where the D800 does better. Different niche, different choice. I bought a 5D2 exactly for these reasons - big "unusable" file size for the time it was released, also very slow camera.

Now I really enjoy the true upgrade to my 5D2 (sorry for the JPG artifacts, also note not so good lens and it was handheld though quite high shutter speed):



Good for you (seriously). You needed different tool, so you went and got it. Who cares about brand loyalty. Get what suits your needs.
This is a d800 and 5dm3 post, why are you getting on him for posting?
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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #447 on: July 17, 2012, 12:08:11 AM »
@Bosman What are you talking about? I was commending him for actually switching to a system that suits his needs rather than constantly bitching about how the mark III  isn't the camera they wanted. I added the "(seriously)" because I was being serious when I said "Good for you".  ::)
« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 12:11:35 AM by D_Rochat »

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #447 on: July 17, 2012, 12:08:11 AM »

Woody

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #448 on: July 17, 2012, 05:45:24 AM »
Hasn't visited this forum in a while. Interesting post. :D

I agree Canon need a major shake-up. The most important of which is their sensor department. In the past, they can afford to offer meager functionality (compare D200 vs 40D, D70 vs 10D etc etc) because their sensors totally rule. But now, the tables are turned.

In order to compete on equal footing, Canon may as well follow Pentax, Olympus and Nikon, and start buying Sony sensors for their camera bodies. :D

psolberg

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #449 on: July 17, 2012, 07:18:51 AM »
I think Bosman is referring to the rate of return.  Storage size goes up drastically (22mp vs 36mp) with highly diminishing returns in IQ.  So why do it?

May I suggest that with more MP more thinking takes place before the shutter is pressed?
That is certainly true with MF digital.

See, if you shoot lets say...weddings, there are moment where thinking is aplied, and crafted, and applied again, all while trying to control chaos around you.  But, there are other points, at receptions and during the ceremony where you as a tog have to be in the moment, and you know what, at that point instinct and experience take over.  That's where you shoot in 3 shoot bursts to make sure you get the perfect expression ...and thats also where your filling up your cards.  Also, if you take a photo-journalistic approach, and those who do that tend to hand over 600-1000 EDITED images to the client, much of the time from a primary and secondary shooter.  How many overall shots do you do to get that kind of return?  Generally it will be in the vicinity of 1500-3000 images!!!!  a high mp camera just isn't suited to that kind of work unless you can tone the files down a bit.  and on the d800, they don't have a sRAW or mRAW option, its RAW or crop and sorry, I'd rather use sRAW for filler shots than crop mode.  This kind of issue though is only gonna be important for shooter who who shoot a lot, like wedding photographers.  If your a studio/commercial tog, more of your shooting will be spent setting up the shoot than actually shooting ---its an apples to tomatoes comparison.   

having actully shot a wedding with a D800, I'm in a position which many here aren't to actually comment in any informed way. sRaw is IMO useless for the wedding photographer. You're throwing away all that data and letting the camera's inferior algorithms resample your image. photoshop will do a far superior job at resizing if you need to sample down due to space constrains. Doing such a thing is next to insanity IMO for you may as well shoot jpg if you're letting the camera handle something as critical as a wedding portrait. You may as well buy/rent a D4 or 1dmk4 and spray and pray low res files which will look better because they won't be butchered by the horrendows "sraw" resize algorithms. If you're nearly out of space and need to switch as an emergency, you'll get better image quality from a 12bit lossy compressed D800 image than from a small raw.

in the day of ever decreasing prices of storage, and ever increasing improvements of print and display media, to capture an image for client in anything but the absolute best the camera can deliver is not only silly, but pointless. sraw is really there for the sport shooters that get 15 shot of the same car going by.

personally, if I knew the photographer shot my wedding at anything less than the highest quality its camera could, well they would simply not get the job at all. If a client pays for the best I can deliver and I wouldn't cheap them out just to carry one or two less CF cards. I'd only step back on the quality if it was an emergency. But if you do weddings for a living and are skimping on the basics...well, that's an entirely different problem not one any one camera can fix.

I agreed with you. 5dm3 is better than d800 bcoz the low light perfomance is great, also a 22MP sensor is enough to do all the work
well if you shoot in a lot of dar places and detail isn't important to you it is. if you shoot light filled landscapes, you know "photo-graphy" as in light not dark-ography, then the selection changes.


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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #449 on: July 17, 2012, 07:18:51 AM »