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Author Topic: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?  (Read 116950 times)

meli

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #60 on: March 14, 2012, 12:27:35 PM »
If Canon pumped out the camera before nikon ever introduced a D800, no one would be griping about DR, no one would be griping about ISO, AF, etc... it would have been praised as the camera all others would be measured to because of lack of something to compare to..

Quite an assumption, so you sincerely believe that if there wasn't a D800 people wouldn't complain about DR  lagging behind a 1000$ camera? or about banding? Seriously?
D800 just adds salt to it cause of the -500$
it adds also abit more cause they used the full shutter /mirrorbox +Af/meter from their premium model at said price whereas Canon's cheapskates cutback there too, which leads me to :
Aside confronting it with the competition (and rightly so) many people do have expectations after a theoretical 4years of R&D; slapping a hacked up AF/meter from 2 other cams to replace a decade old one and a sensor that its novelty is more geared towards videographers is bound to leave many people unhappy.
How is the 1dx AF system in the 5d3 hacked up?  Seriously?  It's the same damn system, just no IFCL meter, which is just for advanced tracking and metering... Even with that, it has the 7D meter... i haven't heard anyone on any blog ever complain about the 7D meter... It's not the newest or shinest, but it's a better combo than the 1d4... seriously, when they're tested i'm sure the 5d3 will stand up well against the D800's AF if not surpass it, much in the same way the 7D's AF rated higher than the D300's.  the sensor size is a nice fit, a nice compromise, and when I was asked, and the general consensus of other pro photographers, very few were asking for more MP... I said, and many others on this forum, that our dream camera was the 5d2 sensor in a 7D body and AF... Canon delivered, and went way beyond...

Nice, so im saying that the AF/meter is a hacked up solution between 2 cams and then you proceed on actually saying that the AF/meter is a hacked up solution of 1dx+7d systems and then u ask me how do i dare to say its like this?  ::)

plus this:
And for me its this people and this fuzz that pushes companies into fixing things rather than people "up your level" who are happy with whatever Canon throws at them.

Get off your high horse... I'm more than happy to use/want/evolve my photography, my business, my career to meeting my clients needs as they change through the years...  Any photographer who doesn't is being left behind... But in the end, I am grateful Canon did listen.. I'm grateful for no 30+ MP...  I'm grateful for class leasing AF system, even when compared against nikons D700/D800...  I'm grateful for video when my clients just so happen wants a short video for their website, the more they use me than look for someone else to do it, the longer I keep the client... I'm grateful for more usable ISO's for when the rare times I will need it.  You're unhappy, i get it, but don't drag others down who are.

So, you just quote me there and then you're going off talking about clients and business and how maybe a client will ask you a video... huh?  :o

We don't care if you preordered the camera mate, our beef is with Canon. If you feel that these discussions are bringing you down maybe you should work on your selfesteem


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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #60 on: March 14, 2012, 12:27:35 PM »

Alker

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #61 on: March 14, 2012, 12:27:47 PM »
Quote
Mr. More Than 10 Year Old Big Boy!

Haha....funny you. :D

Well I guess since you guys already know everything about the performance of the 5D Mark III we don't have to wait for some real tests  anymore.  :'( ;D :D ;)
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 12:33:47 PM by Alker »

iso79

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #62 on: March 14, 2012, 12:34:42 PM »
I'm upgrading from the 5D Mark II to the III. I'm sticking with Canon mainly due to the lens choices (I own all L lenses). I also like how rich and sharp my photos come out. Maybe it's just me but photos taken from Nikons always look soft and the color always seems off. The samples I have seen from the D800 haven't changed my mind.

You own all the L-lenses?  :o
How about 50mm 1.0L, 200mm 1.8L and 800mm 5.6L ::) ::)

Haha, I meant most of them.
5D Mark III | 5D Mark II | 17-40mm f/4L | 24-70mm f/2.8L II | 35mm f/1.4L | 85mm f/1.2L II | 135mm f/2L

nehemiah

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #63 on: March 14, 2012, 12:35:00 PM »
Wow, the Nikon boys are out in full force today.  Not many days until we actually have real world testing.  It would seem quite reasonable to wait until we see actual real world comparisons. 

B and H apparently had over 10,000 preorders well before I placed mine.  Man I hope alll of us fools (including one of my favorite photographers Jeff Ascough) are not too disappointed by this "hacked up" job.

kenraw

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #64 on: March 14, 2012, 12:36:34 PM »
Lets be frank.
Neither camera will make you a better photographer.
Sure you will get better high iso performance, maybe slighty sharper images and a camera ( in the 5dmk3 case ) that has a better button layout and new useful features.
However your actual photography isn't suddenly going to be up there with the top pro's just because you have the latest camera.
What do you think they have been using all this time..........crummy 5dmk2's and old hat D700,s  :o

Perfect example.. are the best wedding photographers now going to offer a 6ft x 4ft wedding album that weighs as much as a small car just because they have 36mp...no I don't think so. most of the MP will be wasted.

Here's my advice if you make a living from photography and cant decide which way to go just buy both.
A d800 with the 14-24 for landscapes or 85 1.4 for portraits and a 5dmk3 with 24-70mk2 and 70-200mk2 for everything else

simples  ;)

personally I pre ordered a 5dm3 instantly and know that I'm going to be happy because I'll be taking the same pictures but just better at high iso and will have a camera with more features that will make the " using " of the camera nicer.

awinphoto

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #65 on: March 14, 2012, 12:38:18 PM »
If Canon pumped out the camera before nikon ever introduced a D800, no one would be griping about DR, no one would be griping about ISO, AF, etc... it would have been praised as the camera all others would be measured to because of lack of something to compare to..

Quite an assumption, so you sincerely believe that if there wasn't a D800 people wouldn't complain about DR  lagging behind a 1000$ camera? or about banding? Seriously?
D800 just adds salt to it cause of the -500$
it adds also abit more cause they used the full shutter /mirrorbox +Af/meter from their premium model at said price whereas Canon's cheapskates cutback there too, which leads me to :
Aside confronting it with the competition (and rightly so) many people do have expectations after a theoretical 4years of R&D; slapping a hacked up AF/meter from 2 other cams to replace a decade old one and a sensor that its novelty is more geared towards videographers is bound to leave many people unhappy.
How is the 1dx AF system in the 5d3 hacked up?  Seriously?  It's the same damn system, just no IFCL meter, which is just for advanced tracking and metering... Even with that, it has the 7D meter... i haven't heard anyone on any blog ever complain about the 7D meter... It's not the newest or shinest, but it's a better combo than the 1d4... seriously, when they're tested i'm sure the 5d3 will stand up well against the D800's AF if not surpass it, much in the same way the 7D's AF rated higher than the D300's.  the sensor size is a nice fit, a nice compromise, and when I was asked, and the general consensus of other pro photographers, very few were asking for more MP... I said, and many others on this forum, that our dream camera was the 5d2 sensor in a 7D body and AF... Canon delivered, and went way beyond...

Nice, so im saying that the AF/meter is a hacked up solution between 2 cams and then you proceed on actually saying that the AF/meter is a hacked up solution of 1dx+7d systems and then u ask me how do i dare to say its like this?  ::)

plus this:
And for me its this people and this fuzz that pushes companies into fixing things rather than people "up your level" who are happy with whatever Canon throws at them.

Get off your high horse... I'm more than happy to use/want/evolve my photography, my business, my career to meeting my clients needs as they change through the years...  Any photographer who doesn't is being left behind... But in the end, I am grateful Canon did listen.. I'm grateful for no 30+ MP...  I'm grateful for class leasing AF system, even when compared against nikons D700/D800...  I'm grateful for video when my clients just so happen wants a short video for their website, the more they use me than look for someone else to do it, the longer I keep the client... I'm grateful for more usable ISO's for when the rare times I will need it.  You're unhappy, i get it, but don't drag others down who are.

So, you just quote me there and then you're going off talking about clients and business and how maybe a client will ask you a video... huh?  :o

We don't care if you preordered the camera mate, our beef is with Canon. If you feel that these discussions are bringing you down maybe you should work on your selfesteem

Seriously mate, i've never, ever, ever had any client gripe about DR... That's a photographer's thing... But anyways it's not lacking, and ALL SAMPLES TO DATE HAVE BEEN PREPRODUCTION... wait a week or two... let the tests be done, then flame to your hearts desire... I dont care what you think or anyone else thinks about this and that... If the cameras IQ is as good as the 5d2 with AF better than a 1d4, the camera pays for itself right there

Your saying the AF is hacked up like it's a bad thing... Your getting the 7D meter, which reads the light from the AF spot(s) to feed to the AF and meter system, and the 1dx AF module?  Ok... so this is the second best AF system has to offer currently... Yep.. bad thing... seriously?  The 5d2 had the 5th best AF or maybe worse and the 5d3 is almost as good as the flagship... that's improvement any way you look at it...

I'm not settling for what Canon or any other company gives me, but unlike you, i dont gripe on forums about it... I call Canon, Email them, I get periodic surveys about their gear/customer service/etc... answer them... check your spam folders for them... Register with Canon, Join CPS, those methods, while they may seem pointless, has more chances of being seen by canon's marketing and research than Canon rumors postings...
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

awinphoto

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #66 on: March 14, 2012, 12:40:02 PM »
Lets be frank.
Neither camera will make you a better photographer.
Sure you will get better high iso performance, maybe slighty sharper images and a camera ( in the 5dmk3 case ) that has a better button layout and new useful features.
However your actual photography isn't suddenly going to be up there with the top pro's just because you have the latest camera.
What do you think they have been using all this time..........crummy 5dmk2's and old hat D700,s  :o

Perfect example.. are the best wedding photographers now going to offer a 6ft x 4ft wedding album that weighs as much as a small car just because they have 36mp...no I don't think so. most of the MP will be wasted.

Here's my advice if you make a living from photography and cant decide which way to go just buy both.
A d800 with the 14-24 for landscapes or 85 1.4 for portraits and a 5dmk3 with 24-70mk2 and 70-200mk2 for everything else

simples  ;)

personally I pre ordered a 5dm3 instantly and know that I'm going to be happy because I'll be taking the same pictures but just better at high iso and will have a camera with more features that will make the " using " of the camera nicer.

+1000
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #66 on: March 14, 2012, 12:40:02 PM »

simonxu11

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #67 on: March 14, 2012, 12:47:56 PM »
Quote
Even with that, it has the 7D meter... i haven't heard anyone on any blog ever complain about the 7D meter...
It works well right! This is a classical answer when people question about why canon don't offer the latest stuff in 5D.

It's true the meter is from 7d, and it's from T3 as well.

It's nothing to do whether it works well or not! It's all about our hard earn money, when a cheaper model put the latest technology from their top model, Canon just put something essential from their cheapest model for next three years.

By doing this, they can cripple another feature which is AF point-linked spot metering. That's why they didn't put this "zero compain" metering system in 1d4.

I am not complaining anything and I will buy 5d3, just want to say some facts.




DanielW

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #68 on: March 14, 2012, 12:53:04 PM »
I am very wrong or are we all comparing two very different cameras with different purposes? As I see from what I've been reading, the D800 is more a studio/landscape camera, and the 5Dm3 more an all-around camera, maybe what wedding photographers want. People seem to want a 30+ MP with a ton of DR and 10 FPS... No can do. Very different cameras, very different uses, or am I wrong?
I don't understand the US$ 500 difference, though.
It really seems that a high MP studio work/landscape camera missing in Canon's lineup, but it looks like it's on its way (or not?).
In the beginning I didn't like this "mark x" thing, but now I like it and see advantages. What if:
- 1Dm_ for insanely high FPS and ISO (sports)
- 3Dm_ (or some new series) for high MP studio/landscape
- 5Dm_ for all-around FF (weddings)
- 7Dm_ for best crop sensor
- xxD for little better than entry-level
- xxxD for entry-level
Makes it easier for everyone. If I'm a sports shooter, then I know Canon's got 1Dm_ line that suits my needs; if I'm into landscape, the 3D series is my stuff, and so on.
Anyway, I think 5Dm3 and D800 are not comparable, and the 5Dm3 will be a very good camera for what it's intended to (although a tad expensive).
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 01:11:41 PM by DanielW »

moreorless

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #69 on: March 14, 2012, 01:00:31 PM »
I am very wrong or are we all comparing two very different cameras with different purposes? As I see from what I've been reading, the D800 is more a studio/landscape camera, and the 5Dm3 more an all-around camera, maybe what wedding photographers want. People seem to want a 30+ MP with a ton of DR and 10 FPS... No can do. Very different cameras, very different uses, or am I wrong?
I don't understand the US$ 500 difference, though.

I'd guess that explains it, the targeted users likely have more to spend than amature landscapers, its what Canon and Nikon did in the past with the 1Ds mk3 and D3x.

jaduffy007

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #70 on: March 14, 2012, 01:09:54 PM »
Sorry but I don't think the menu system is better either.  :)  And even without the grip, D800 gives 25MP at 5fps (1.2crop).

Your analysis is 100% spot on in my opinion, but that doesn't necessarily mean you should sell all of your Canon gear and go Nikon.  D800 is a better camera for geeks and pixel peepers... especially the D800E for landscape photogs.  Yet there will be very few real life situations where that difference will be substantial or even noticeable (!).  This Nikon vs Canon stuff is mostly about bragging rights, we need to get over it.  Then again, it's becoming clear that Canon is falling behind Sony in sensor tech...in the long term that is concerning.



It recently occured to me after Nikon announced that with a grip the D800 shoots 6 FPS that I can't find a single advantage to the 5D3 over the D800. Here's what I know so far:

5D3 vs D800/E by catagory:

Dynamic Range: Inferior
Color Fidelity: Inferior
Noise: Equal
FPS: Equal (with a grip)
Video: Inferior
Autofocus: Equal (both are pro level)/Inferior (no f/8.0)/Superior (better with fast lenses due to special f/2.8 sensors)
White Balance: Inferior
Auto Exposure: Inferior
In Camera Lens Correction: Inferior
Pop up Flash: Inferior
Price: Inferior
Resolution: Inferior
AA filter: Inferior


I realize that the 5D3 has a better menu system, so that's one thing it can possibly do better.

Also please don't smite me. I'm not trying to bash the 5D3, as I'm actually a Canon fan and will be getting the 5D3, but can anyone think of one major feature that the 5D3 does better than the D800? If so feel free to post, I'm just trying to get informed here.

Thanks. :)
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 01:14:39 PM by jaduffy007 »

bluegreenturtle

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #71 on: March 14, 2012, 01:10:45 PM »
I don't understand this idea that people will stay with Canon (or Nikon) just because of the lenses they already own.  One of the things that's touted so often about buying good (or even bad, really) lenses is that they keep their value.  I'm looking at all the lenses in my kit and I think I could sell them all for what I paid for them, or in a couple of cases, more than I paid.  The only thing that would be a waste would be a couple of cheap adapters I picked up so I could use m42 lenses.  But I could easily pick up those same adapters for nikon, too.  If all your lenses really keep value the way most people on this forum keep saying they do, then it should be no trouble to liquidate your lenses, and get whatever you actually want, regardless of body brand.

I personally don't like the operation of the controls of Nikons.  But that's probably not an issue for many people.

meli

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #72 on: March 14, 2012, 01:14:15 PM »
Seriously mate, i've never, ever, ever had any client gripe about DR... That's a photographer's thing... But anyways it's not lacking, and ALL SAMPLES TO DATE HAVE BEEN PREPRODUCTION... wait a week or two... let the tests be done, then flame to your hearts desire... I dont care what you think or anyone else thinks about this and that... If the cameras IQ is as good as the 5d2 with AF better than a 1d4, the camera pays for itself right there

Your saying the AF is hacked up like it's a bad thing... Your getting the 7D meter, which reads the light from the AF spot(s) to feed to the AF and meter system, and the 1dx AF module?  Ok... so this is the second best AF system has to offer currently... Yep.. bad thing... seriously?  The 5d2 had the 5th best AF or maybe worse and the 5d3 is almost as good as the flagship... that's improvement any way you look at it...

I'm not settling for what Canon or any other company gives me, but unlike you, i dont gripe on forums about it... I call Canon, Email them, I get periodic surveys about their gear/customer service/etc... answer them... check your spam folders for them... Register with Canon, Join CPS, those methods, while they may seem pointless, has more chances of being seen by canon's marketing and research than Canon rumors postings...

Nope, i'm not saying that the hacked up job for the Af/meter wont be good. For all i care it can be the next big thing after sliced bread. Its a matter of principle, its the way Canon deliberately nerfs down the 5d series. (remember when they couldn't put a better Af on the mark2 cause "there wasn't any space you guys!"?)

Besides, we're in a product forum, we're here to talk about the tool, whats the point of it if we cant disagree or vent about'em here? How we run our business has little to do with a Canon forum, in here, in my opinion, we expect a technical discussion either from a lab rat or a field reporter, be it before a release or after, don't you agree?

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #72 on: March 14, 2012, 01:14:15 PM »

poias

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #73 on: March 14, 2012, 01:14:42 PM »
Quote
That is because Canon users are getting hosed and they know it. I have been a loyal Canon buyer for almost my entire pro life and I feel like Nikon has better technology and value. Why settle for less?

Indeed 10 year old boys.
Batman vs Superman.

Hosted ??? Sure !!

When you have to pay hundreds of dollars more for a clearly inferior tool, then, yes, you are getting hosed. And if you feel you have some "loyalty" to a  brand whose manufacturer clearly sees its customers as suckers willing to shell out dough because they are "locked in", then more power to you, Mr. More Than 10 Year Old Big Boy!

Yep... It CLEARLY inferior... prove it with real world apples for apples tests... Oh yeah, you cant.

Real world samples are already out for everyone to see. D800 is clearly superior in detail and DR. 5Diii might have edge on the noise department, but the images just look flat, most likely due to excessive NR. Regardless, D800 is superior in that it provides much better detail and DR and comparable ISO performance.

If you want absolute empirical evidence, then we have to wait for lab tests. The samples, however, clearly indicate D800 being the superior in terms of value and delivery.

The only logical argument for keeping 5Diii is that you like intangibles such as Canon service levels, ergonomics, brand name, history, etc.

StORM48

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #74 on: March 14, 2012, 01:17:16 PM »
It recently occured to me after Nikon announced that with a grip the D800 shoots 6 FPS that I can't find a single advantage to the 5D3 over the D800. Here's what I know so far:

5D3 vs D800/E by catagory:

Dynamic Range: Inferior
Color Fidelity: Inferior
Noise: Equal
FPS: Equal (with a grip)
Video: Inferior
Autofocus: Equal (both are pro level)/Inferior (no f/8.0)/Superior (better with fast lenses due to special f/2.8 sensors)
White Balance: Inferior
Auto Exposure: Inferior
In Camera Lens Correction: Inferior
Pop up Flash: Inferior
Price: Inferior
Resolution: Inferior
AA filter: Inferior


I realize that the 5D3 has a better menu system, so that's one thing it can possibly do better.

Also please don't smite me. I'm not trying to bash the 5D3, as I'm actually a Canon fan and will be getting the 5D3, but can anyone think of one major feature that the 5D3 does better than the D800? If so feel free to post, I'm just trying to get informed here.

Thanks. :)
Really?
I'm first to criticize Canon regarding recent changes but, some of your comparisons aren't true at all. For example:

"Color Fidelity: Inferior"? - Who measured that and how?

"White Balance: Inferior"? - I don't get it? You have problems with WB, WB settings or auto wb? What "better" means?

Auto Exposure: Inferior? - Same as previous question...

In Camera Lens Correction: Inferior? - I noticed that many of members stated this as Nikon advantage over Canon. So I got to ask - does anybody read the manual of Canon DSLRs... for about... last 4 years? Every last Canon DSLR body, made from 2008 until now, INCLUDES "In Camera Lens Correction". Only CA correction wasn't included earlier, but 5D Mark III finally got it! So, please be kind and enlighten me. I don't like to be uninformed.  :o

Best regards
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 01:20:10 PM by StORM48 »

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #74 on: March 14, 2012, 01:17:16 PM »