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Author Topic: The Megapixels are Coming [CR1]  (Read 30786 times)

dilbert

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Re: The Megapixels are Coming [CR1]
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2012, 11:12:28 AM »
...
And NO, that is not going to be the high mega-pixel camera from Canon. Video requires low mega-pixels because then the processor has less work to do to down-scale the image into a 2K output (or in this case a 2K to 4K) output.

That depends on how they implement the 4K video.

Note that with 2K video they've got an 8MP sensor ((1920*2)*(1080*2)) in the C300.

If they deliver a  sensor using the same paradigm as the C300 then we're going to see ((4096*2)*(3112*2)) pixels. That's 50MP. If they go for straight 4096*3112 then that's 12.7MP. But then again, they may choose to support one of the other 4K formats.

This table lists the number of megapixels required to support the stated resolution by your standard DSLR with a bayer matrix and again using the model that Canon adopted for the C300.

Resolution DSLRC300
4096×311212.7 MP50.8 MP
3656×26649.74 MP39.0 MP
3996×21608.63 MP34.5 MP
4096×17147.02 MP28.1 MP
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 11:15:17 AM by dilbert »

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Re: The Megapixels are Coming [CR1]
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2012, 11:12:28 AM »

Tuggem

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Re: The Megapixels are Coming [CR1]
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2012, 11:16:04 AM »
A suggestion that a high megapixel camera is coming from Canon, and could be introduced near the end of 2012. Alongside the camera would come new ultra wide angle lens(es). It was suggested both a zoom and a prime in the area of 16mm.

I warn that this sort of conjecture will be a regular occurrence going forward I think. There is a large number of people in the community that desire a 35  megapixel camera from Canon.

Just more megapixels is NOT ENOUGH.


We want better  dyanmic range (DR) and lower noise - and in raw files, not JPEG!.

Without those, more megapixels holds questionable value, just the same as the 5D3 is of questionable value for large numbers of 5D2 owners - the images that come out are roughly the same, so upgrading is based entirely on whether you need/want the other attributes of the 5D3.

This is why they should buy the sensor from Sony.
If they could get 54MP (upscaled 24MP sensor) with same DR and high ISO noise as D800. (the Sony 16MP and 24MP are about equal in these terms according to DXO and also to other sites subjective testing)
Meanwhile Canon can upgrade their own thechnology to the same level.

pakosouthpark

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Re: The Megapixels are Coming [CR1]
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2012, 12:22:55 PM »
this news will make the big MP fans quite happy..! it would be a smart move from canon too

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: The Megapixels are Coming [CR1]
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2012, 01:06:27 PM »
It would be nice if they would be open to new ideas and either allowed some higher MP '5DX' to offer crop modes for more fps, as does Nikon, instead of forcing a 22MP+6fps or 36+ MP+3fps choice. Or even 'daring' to allow the 5 series to use 2 digics (maybe FF mirror/shutter take more power and there is not enough left for a second digic????) to let it also do 6fps. (They can offer high-quality video by simply using a somewhat cropped area of the sensor to grab a perfect downsize pattern for 1920x1080p out of.)

But I really see them NOT offering a moire/aliasing free cropped video mode or any way to get decent body speed out of it. I think they are too stubborn.

awinphoto

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Re: The Megapixels are Coming [CR1]
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2012, 01:13:06 PM »
It would be nice if they would be open to new ideas and either allowed some higher MP '5DX' to offer crop modes for more fps, as does Nikon, instead of forcing a 22MP+6fps or 36+ MP+3fps choice. Or even 'daring' to allow the 5 series to use 2 digics (maybe FF mirror/shutter take more power and there is not enough left for a second digic????) to let it also do 6fps. (They can offer high-quality video by simply using a somewhat cropped area of the sensor to grab a perfect downsize pattern for 1920x1080p out of.)

But I really see them NOT offering a moire/aliasing free cropped video mode or any way to get decent body speed out of it. I think they are too stubborn.

Contact Canon in mass and let them know... regarding the crop mode, while possible, I think, as said before in other treads, it does beg to question whether if they do that, does it open the door to usage of ef-s lenses, which cant go on a full frame camera due to the extended rear... or do they say, crop mode only with EF lenses?  And even if they do that, i dont get how nikon, you have to be in crop mode to get 6FPS?  the mirror is going up and down anyways so it's not the mirror hindering performance unless the mirror isn't going up and down the full length as FF... But beware what you ask for... i'm sure they canon could produce a camera that trumps the D800E every way possible, but at what cost?
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Ricku

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Re: The Megapixels are Coming [CR1]
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2012, 01:30:43 PM »
Just more megapixels is NOT ENOUGH.


We want better  dyanmic range (DR) and lower noise - and in raw files, not JPEG!.

Without those, more megapixels holds questionable value, just the same as the 5D3 is of questionable value for large numbers of 5D2 owners - the images that come out are roughly the same, so upgrading is based entirely on whether you need/want the other attributes of the 5D3.
Agreed.

I want a high MP camera, but the upgrade will be just as useless as the 5D3, if the dynamic range is not dramatically improved.

I really hope that Canon will some day understand this simple fact. Higher MP is good, but higher DR is the true king.

Heck I'd even settle for the 22MP 5D3 if it's DR had been upgraded!
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 01:35:37 PM by Ricku »

justsomedude

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Re: The Megapixels are Coming [CR1]
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2012, 03:15:02 PM »
Agreed.

I want a high MP camera, but the upgrade will be just as useless as the 5D3, if the dynamic range is not dramatically improved.

I really hope that Canon will some day understand this simple fact. Higher MP is good, but higher DR is the true king.

Heck I'd even settle for the 22MP 5D3 if it's DR had been upgraded!

Another +1

With Westfall already defending the lack of significant MP bump in the 5D3 by stating 22 "is enough", and then expounding by claiming limited megapixels allow for higher FPS burst rates - I have begun losing faith in Canon.  So now I'm supposed to believe the stagnant MP count was all part of Canon's genius plan to transform the 5D line into an action shooter's camera??  WTF?!?!  I don't need 6FPS in a studio/event/landscape camera you jagoffs!

And now with the latest rumor that Canon will be releasing a "high MP body" by the end of this year, it's clear that they dropped the ball on the 5D3, are scared sh*tless by the d800, and a scrambling to cover their ass before everyone jumps ship to the dark side.  "Nono no... hold on JUuuuust a minute... we have a high MP body in the works... it's coming... you know... hopefully by Christmas and such.  Meerrrrrrrr!"

Man - this is starting to turn into a huge embarrassment for big C.  I wish this was all just a bad dream.  Talk about being caught with your pants down.  Canon thought Nikon would never dare to cram so many pixels onto a sensor.  Now that they have - and got sick images as a result - they look like fools.  I'll tell you this - Nikon was pretty damn good at keeping the d800 secret if Canon really never saw this coming - which is starting to look like what happened.

I'll tell you what - I won't be the guinea pig on Canon's 40+MP project crammed out in 8 months in response to Nikon.  That's not R&D ... that's playing catch up.

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Re: The Megapixels are Coming [CR1]
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2012, 03:15:02 PM »

facedodge

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Re: The Megapixels are Coming [CR1]
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2012, 03:33:29 PM »
How about this....

The XD series turns into the "All Around Camera" Series. It becomes the favorite of hobbyists, wedding and street photographers.
The XXD Series goes Sports... High FPS... Crop... AF...
The XXXD Series loses the Rebel tag and goes landscape or studio... MP... DR...
The XXXXD Series keeps the Rebel tag.

SeanL

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Re: The Megapixels are Coming [CR1]
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2012, 03:35:11 PM »
You guys are getting way out in front of a CR1 rumor.
Don't get me wrong, I'm in the market for an affordable medium format camera like the 645D for landscape.

Post some online proof that Canon is concerned about the D800 resolution.

StevenBrianSamuels

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Re: The Megapixels are Coming [CR1]
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2012, 03:38:02 PM »
If Canon does a High MP I really hope they don't put it in a 1d body.  Taking price out of the factor (@5k+ if wont compete with the D800/e) the sheer size and weight of a 1d body would be a negative in the studio.

BTW - I looked into the 645D. Great if you dont use flash but it's low sync-speed kills it for me. 

justsomedude

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Re: The Megapixels are Coming [CR1]
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2012, 03:43:13 PM »
You guys are getting way out in front of a CR1 rumor.
Don't get me wrong, I'm in the market for an affordable medium format camera like the 645D for landscape.

Post some online proof that Canon is concerned about the D800 resolution.

Canon will never come out and say "we are scared by the d800," that's just not smart business - but we can read between the lines. In this interview, Chuck Westfall is defending the great advancements in FPS on the 5D3 by limiting the MP to 22.  Since when has the 5D line been about action shooting??  According to Canon central - now that's what the 5D3 is all about...

Quote from: Chuck Westfall
Staying in the 22 megapixel range allowed us to maximize base level image quality, while at the same time enabling us to achieve a maximum continuous shooting speed of 6 frames per second. This is the fastest continuous shooting speed in the 20+ megapixel full-frame sensor DSLR category, and it expands the potential customer base for the EOS 5D Mark III by making it more attractive to photojournalists and entry-level sports photographers.  --Chuck Westfall

As far as I'm concerned, this is Canon already making excuses for the relatively low-MP of the 5D3 (compared to the d800).  They are now trying to use FPS as a legitimate argument for lower MP... in the 5D line?  The 5D series has NEVER been about action shooting. 

"Ohhhhh - we INTENTIONALLY kept MP down to boost that fps rate to 6!!  Because, yea... you know... that's what those studio and landscape toggers wanted!!!  Wooohooo!!  Right?  Uh... merrrrr."

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Re: The Megapixels are Coming [CR1]
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2012, 03:44:39 PM »
Don't listen to marketing speak. They want to sell you what they have NOW, not what they might have later. They have to talk up the 5D3 and shift as many of them as possible.

Putting that aside, they will eventually address other needs not covered by that. What they think they are and how to fill them are the big questions.

Personally I see two options for a "high MP full frame" body:
1: Take the 5D3, cram in a 30 to 40-something MP sensor. Change nothing else. You get up to double the MP count for half the shooting rate. Everything else can be kept more or less the same to make it easy to manufacture. If they go this route I'd expect it to cost a bit more than the 5D3 as they'd no doubt try to talk it up as a higher position.

2: Do the above, but shovel in another Digic and keep the fps up. Pricing will be creeping ever closer to 1D X territory.
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Re: The Megapixels are Coming [CR1]
« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2012, 04:15:00 PM »
49MP gives a 4x oversampling (and out-MP the D800) - could Csnon just use the sensor in 2 different cameras?
Have a high MP cinema dSLR and have a high MP stills dSLR?
Or have both and charge top whack.

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Re: The Megapixels are Coming [CR1]
« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2012, 04:15:00 PM »

briansquibb

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Re: The Megapixels are Coming [CR1]
« Reply #43 on: March 14, 2012, 04:20:38 PM »
Still the option of the APS-H high mps which would also keep the wildlife shooters happy and totally wipe Nikon out of that segment

grahamsz

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Re: The Megapixels are Coming [CR1]
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2012, 04:46:03 PM »
What are your thoughts on resale value. I'm shooting a rebel right now and have been putting off the full frame upgrade for about a yera because I figured the 5d mk3 was coming.

If I keep my preorder, but a $3200 camera, and need to sell it again a year later because they do come up with something really awesome - where do I stand.

If the mk3 ends up being like a refined improved version of the mk2, I expect flipping it used will maybe lose me $900 or so.  However if the replacement camera isn't so suited to the wedding market, then i expect I'd maybe lose less.

Any thoughts?

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Re: The Megapixels are Coming [CR1]
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2012, 04:46:03 PM »