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Author Topic: Hard Decision: 5d Mark III vs Nikon D800  (Read 6869 times)

Jayden01

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Hard Decision: 5d Mark III vs Nikon D800
« on: March 15, 2012, 09:04:15 AM »
Hey folks,

even if some of you will hate me for starting another Canon VS Nikon Thread, i need your help.

My Situation:
I`m a videographer and mostly shoot videos of weddings and advertisings for companies. I use a Sony PMW-EX3 with the Letus Ultimate Adapter to have nice DOF and and a PMW-EX1r. Due to many fotographic requests, this has been my hobby so far, i want to upgrade to a FF-Camera of the newest geneartion.

So far i used a Canon 500D but it isn`t really a camera for professional needs.

I`m also looking for buying strobes to run a small studio for portrait-fotographie and i`m interested in using the video-mode to be a bit more flexible then i`m now with the letus setup.

I have no lenses for a full-format camera so now it´s time to decide with which company i`ll go for a decade or a lifetime.

From what i`ve seen so far im very impressed by the example pictures of the Nikon D800. In my opinion even the downsampled pictures look way better and sharper than the canon pictures. I`m very impressed by the videos,too. For example the video with the motobike. If i have lot failures inside the text, don`t hurt me, i`m from germany and not a native speaker ;).

So i want to achieve a camera that gives me optimal results in the studio, nice video perfomance and that is usuable for wedding-photography. High ISO is important for Weddings, but i think the quality of the D800 is still very nice at 6400 and i think that this is enough for the avaiable light in the church.

The problem is, i really like the canon handling and it looks better to me. I know, that the look of the camera shouldn`t matter, but if both cams would have an equal quality i would like to go with canon. The decision is so hard, because it is a lot of money to spend, so i fear to take the wrong decision.

Is it too early to decide until the first real life situation tests hit the internet or did you already decide which way to go? I mean most will already have multiple lenses, so the decision is easier. Please help me. I read so much about both cams, that i simply read too much. Both seem to be very nice and i think neither the canon nor the nikon will be a "bad" camera, bit i simply want the best for my needs.

Thanks in advance!
Jay

Add: What i forgot, i really like these Nikon-Features: Wireless Flash (Without Adapter) and Timelapse

Add2: Which company has the better lenses. I know that l lenses are the best canon lenses but although read that nikon g lenses are better thatn the canon lenses. I already have 2 Zeiss ZF lenses that i use for the Letus and have a nikon mount (50mm and 100mm macro), so the plus for nikon is i can mount them, but that shouldn`t be so dramatic as i can simply achieve an adapter for canon.

The first lenses i would like to achieve are 24-70mm 2.8 and 70-200mm IS 2.8 lenses. I heard a new waterproof 24-70mm with VC is coming up next, would you even think about buying a tamron over nikon or canon lenses because of the VC or do third-party lenses always loose against those.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 12:23:56 PM by Jayden01 »

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Hard Decision: 5d Mark III vs Nikon D800
« on: March 15, 2012, 09:04:15 AM »

Martin

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Re: Hard Decision: 5d Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2012, 09:29:03 AM »
Same problem and decision here, however I own 5 canon lens, without that I would go for Nikon, but have no idea what to do now. Saw samples (raw, jpg etc) I just feel I want Nikon but i am not sure if that is wise decision.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 09:32:10 AM by Martin »
5D3, 35L, 85 1.8, 135L, 24-70L, 70-200L IS II, 580 EX II.

jrod

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Re: Hard Decision: 5d Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2012, 09:55:54 AM »
This is my first post on the side, I have been lurking for a while, but since I also come from a video background and I thought I would share a few of my thoughts.

I think a lot of people miss all the new video features on the mkiii. For one the all I frame compression is a huge benefit when it comes to editing the video later. The D800 does have uncompressed HDMI out but that would require you to also lug around an external recording device (not so much fun when you are shooting an event like a wedding). The other benefit to the mkiii is that its sensor size is perfect for HD video (3x3 pixel binning) this should result in a higher effective resolution, reduced moire, etc (although due to the product not being released this has yet to be verified, but all the videos I have seen seem to support it). And finally the mkiii supports a native extra stop (ISO 12,800) for video as well. All of these add up to a very powerful video camera.

I have been struggling reading all the comments here about the D800 vs MkIII, but when I look at the features I need I am glad I pre-ordered my MkIII.

Jayden01

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Re: Hard Decision: 5d Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2012, 10:04:41 AM »
Thanks, i would like to read more answers like jrods. +1 for canon so far.

PhilDrinkwater

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Re: Hard Decision: 5d Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2012, 10:13:43 AM »
Is it to early to decide until the first real life situation tests hit the internet or did you already decide which way to go? I mean most will already have multiple lenses, so the decision is easier. Please help me. I read so much about both cams, that i simply read too much. Both seem to be very nice and i think neither the canon nor the nikon will be a "bad" camera, bit i simply want the best for my needs.
Yes - it's too early to tell which camera will be better for your use but current guestimate would suggest it's the 5d3.

Canon has the better lenses outside of the 14-24 though. The new 24-70 will seal the final deal according to the MTF graphs.

IMO lenses matter more than bodies, especially for video. That's why I don't get all this body discussion - lenses will make MUCH more difference than a bit more resolution. However, Canon lenses aren't exactly cheap.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 10:15:21 AM by PhilDrinkwater »

awinphoto

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Re: Hard Decision: 5d Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2012, 10:28:31 AM »
Unfortunately until both cameras are released and tested, everything is based on assumption that nothing will change.  If video is your main passion, for what it's worth, one of nikons sample videos has been accused of having used Canon 5d2 footage in parts of their video.  How true that is, i'm not sure nor am I prepared to really look into.  If you also think of it, if i'm not mistaken, this is the 1st Nikon camera to support 1080 video?  I think their flagship still had 720?  I could be wrong, but basically this is canon's second generation of 1080p, not the first, like nikons, so it can be argued canon has had time to really fine tune the video from first generation to second whereas nikon is getting their feet wet, but with sony in nikons back pocket, i'm sure they are helping nikon catch up.  I would probably guess canon has a slight edge in video terms, but probably not as much as one may think.

As far as camera functions, Canon has some advantages such as AF, FPS, customization of buttons and interface, High ISO, highlight tone protection, better mid range to telephoto line up of lenses, whereas nikon has advantages in wide angle lenses, time lapse, wireless commander, DR, super large files and MP... IF you were focused more on photography, nikon has a nice range and tonal range, however the files tend to appear flat and may need more post processing to add contrast and give your files that "pop" it needs to really shine... Canon has more pop, more contrast, more color range, and may need less post production work to get that pop, but it doesn't have more technical range, but in the end, your clients chooses pictures based on emotional and overall impact, not on which has more tonal range. 

If your choosing video, it is canons second generation on 1080 HD but nikon also has sony's technology to help even the playing field.  While I would want to think canon has an edge there, lets call it a wash for now until further tests are conducted.

Overall systems, Nikon has better wide angle (landscape), Canon has better mid range and telephoto (portrait) lenses... Flashes are debatable and almost a non factor if you get studio strobes.  As far as the two cameras, they are too close to really call, but I would wait until you can hold and play with the 2 cameras in the store... If one fits in your hand better and is easier to use, that could be more important than any lab test can ever test.  If you choose a camera and it's awkward and you miss a split second shot, is it really a benefit?  If your this torn, wait until you can play with both cameras side by side before you make up your mind or you will never know. 
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 10:30:48 AM by awinphoto »
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

Jayden01

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Re: Hard Decision: 5d Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2012, 10:34:12 AM »
I like you comment and your advice. I appreciate your very differenciated answer!

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Re: Hard Decision: 5d Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2012, 10:34:12 AM »

awinphoto

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Re: Hard Decision: 5d Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2012, 10:55:03 AM »
I like you comment and your advice. I appreciate your very differenciated answer!

Good luck with your decision and whichever system you choose to invest in, this is a great time to be a photographer!
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

psolberg

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Re: Hard Decision: 5d Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2012, 11:35:44 AM »
Quote
Add2: Which company has the better lenses. I know that l lenses are the best canon lenses but although read that nikon g lenses are better thatn the canon lenses. I already have 2 Zeiss ZF lenses that i use for the Letus and have a nikon mount (50mm and 100mm macro), so the plus for nikon is i can mount them, but that shouldn`t be so dramatic as i can simply achieve an adapter for canon.
you can't make a general statement because neither one has always the best lenses. Canon has more lenses. That's just a fact. The first question is does canon have something you need that nikon does not? most of the time the answer is no, for most people, but some have special needs that may change that answer. Likewise, nikon has some lenses that canon does not although the number is less.

As far as quality, nikon wide angles like the 14-24, 24 1.4 and 16-35 IS are much better than their canon cousins. Lenses like the 24-70 and 70-200 which are very common are very good on both. The newer canons are more expensive, newer and slightly better but the differences are for pixel peepers to dwell on. Canon definitively has more telephoto choices. But unless you shoot sports or birds, thats irrelevant.

Ultimately both companies are are always updaing and bringing more models. Unless there is a lens you can't live without today, chances are you'll be well served on either side.

Quote
The first lenses i would like to achieve are 24-70mm 2.8 and 70-200mm IS 2.8 lenses. I heard a new waterproof 24-70mm with VC is coming up next, would you even think about buying a tamron over nikon or canon lenses because of the VC or do third-party lenses always loose against those.

I think nikon's 24-70 will see a VR/IS version sooner than the canon, but I don't know how soon. Their lens is about half way its normal lifetime so you may indeed have to go 3rd party if IS is what you want. The 70-200 2.8 canon is a tad better and more expensive than the nikon. But IMO neither system has any overwhelming advantage for those two lenses. Its a wash. If the 24-70 II had been IS, I'd think otherwise.

The canon glass only has to resolve to a mere 22MP. If you go with nikon D800, you need good glass. Their lenses are up to the task since the pixel pitch is just about 16MP compared to the 7D, but are the 3rd party lenses up to it? Probably, yet differences in quality control, which 3rd parties are known for will become more obvious.

good luck with your decision.


ajay

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Re: Hard Decision: 5d Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2012, 12:03:17 PM »
As with others, I too have deliberated between the two. Here are some things to consider:

-- Although 36MP is amazing to view, I would have to upgrade my computer to process the images efficiently. I would also have to increase my storage capacity as well.

-- Same goes for flash memory.

-- 4fps vs 6fps is meaningful. Especially when photographing sports/wildlife. 5DM3 wins here.

-- For landscape photography, the D800 is awesomel. (Occasionally I am asked to provide images that get blown up to wall size. D800 wins here for sure.)

-- Depending upon the lenses used, the D800's resolution advantage may or may not be that different from the 5DM3. (Nikon's 70-200 2.8 lens is not as sharp as Canon's version for example. On the other hand Nikon's 24-70 beats Canon's version (present model))

-- D800 does have other bells and whistles that I might occasionally use... time-lapse video capability, auto focus with f/8 lens + TC combinations

-- D800 autofocuses in video mode. I'd really like for someone to review this. How good is it? If it was fairly accurate and fast, this would be a big plus for me.

-- Having both Canon and Nikon cameras would make things confusing. It's hard enough remembering where all the features can be found through one camera manufacturer's menu structure, having to switch or have both bodies means more learning and remembering where stuff is on each camera. Include buttons, controls in this too.

-- Nikon's D800 is less expensive. Nikon lenses used to be more expensive, but now Canon is upping their prices with new lenses. Nikon seems to be more affordable at this point and time.

-- If the D800 is going to be as big of a success as it's being touted, I seriously doubt Canon will wait too long before they announce a high-resolution, FF camera body as well.

-- Final thought... Before the new cameras were announced, everyone just loved the 5D Mark II. Even back in December when they were on sale, they were being sold like crazy. Now the new cameras are out, and now the 5DM2 has been left in the gutter. Everyone wants the best and latest camera models, even though what they currently own will probably do 90% of what they want in a camera. To me, the 5DM3's new autofocus is HUGE. Canon has addressed my major complaint with that camera. Add 2 fps extra, and now I have an all-around camera that can be used for virtually every type of photography I do.




Jayden01

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Re: Hard Decision: 5d Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2012, 12:04:28 PM »
Maybe it`s time for the industrie to point out the highest recommended MP-Count for lenses like "Usuable up to 22MP", because i`ve never read about this fact on the manufacturer sites.

I think at the end of the day the price for both systems - fully equipped - is nearly the same. I read about that somewhere so at this point the price doesn`t really have an big impact on the decision.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 12:09:28 PM by Jayden01 »

awinphoto

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Re: Hard Decision: 5d Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2012, 12:18:04 PM »
Maybe it`s time for the industrie to point out the highest recommended MP-Count for lenses like "Usuable up to 22MP", because i`ve never read about this fact on the manufacturer sites.

I think at the end of the day the price for both systems - fully equipped - is nearly the same. I read about that somewhere so at this point the price doesn`t really have an big impact on the decision.

Lenses/resolution/limits never have been much of a problem before in the past like it is becoming now.  Even with that being said, most lenses, even the really really old eos lenses that were geared for film, can be used on the 5d3 manually but image quality may or may not leave you wanting more.  Also keep in mind, comparing to Full Frame, the 7D's sensor would be similar to a 45MP sensor on a full frame, and most L lenses work great on that camera... although at times, I found that cameras AF to be faster than the lenses AF, so even though the camera is telling the lens to focus on a football player running zig zag, the some lenses could be a touch behind because it cant keep up.  I've found this true on some sigma lenses, and even the 50mm's (across the board), as well as macros...  But the 5d3, may or may not have this problem so dont get too worked up.  Generally nikons lenses are a touch older than canons, although they are working to update their gear, so their lenses may have similar issues as well.  Best idea to use the newest and best lenses you can afford whether it is canon or nikon
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

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Re: Hard Decision: 5d Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2012, 12:26:19 PM »
One thing to consider is comittment to support.  Canon has opened a dedicated support center for cineama and broadcast video in Southern California, has and is developing video dedicated lenses. They are in it for the long run.

Nikon seems to have a great product, but has developed a poor reputation for product support and seems to be making things even worse by refusing to sell parts to small local camera repair dealers.

In the long run, for a business, support outweighs a few nice features by a huge amount.

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Re: Hard Decision: 5d Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2012, 12:26:19 PM »

preppyak

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Re: Hard Decision: 5d Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2012, 12:51:20 PM »
-- D800 autofocuses in video mode. I'd really like for someone to review this. How good is it? If it was fairly accurate and fast, this would be a big plus for me.
IF it's the same phase-detect auto-focus as their previous cameras, it's generally considered to not be good. Certainly not a reason to go Nikon over Canon. You can see a bunch of examples on Youtube, but, its generally much slower and less reliable than the auto-focus you'd be used to from video cameras. I think only the Sony DSLR (A77) has something close to camcorder auto-focus.

Also, you'll get noise from having to press the shutter and hearing it auto-focus, so you'll have to come up with an external sound solution: Nikon D3100: Auto Focus Noise, VR Image Stabilization, and Video Quality

awinphoto

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Re: Hard Decision: 5d Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2012, 12:52:27 PM »
One thing to consider is comittment to support.  Canon has opened a dedicated support center for cineama and broadcast video in Southern California, has and is developing video dedicated lenses. They are in it for the long run.

Nikon seems to have a great product, but has developed a poor reputation for product support and seems to be making things even worse by refusing to sell parts to small local camera repair dealers.

In the long run, for a business, support outweighs a few nice features by a huge amount.

True... also canon has CPS, 3 repair facilities (in the US) 1 on the west coast, 2 on the east, and if you provide them ways to get ahold of you, generally provide good lines of communication if you need to get ahold of them.  In terms of head to head, they are really too close to call.
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

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Re: Hard Decision: 5d Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2012, 12:52:27 PM »