AutoISO messed up.... AGAIN? arrrrrrr it's just not that difficult

[briansquibb]

With AutoISO this exactly is the problem! What should the camera do if it reaches ISO 100? I can only overexpuse. Sure in AV it would use a faster time. But there is the stupid 1/250 limit which make that useless and to slow in the beginning.

On the 1D4 the shutter speed gets faster - isn't is the same on the 5DIII?

[bloodstupid]

No its not, as mentioned before the 5D series has no SafetyShift in M. Sadly.

[briansquibb]

No its not, as mentioned before the 5D series has no SafetyShift in M. Sadly.

Safety shift in Av

[bloodstupid]

Oh come on, read what this is about, AV is unusable in certain situations because of the 1/250 limit.

[briansquibb]

Oh come on, read what this is about, AV is unusable in certain situations because of the 1/250 limit.

That is the minimum - you were asking about what happens if the iso gets to 100 - and the answer is the shutter speed increases.

If you read the whole thread you will have spotted that only the 1 series has the full limit on the shutter speed. I dont see any need to go through that debate again. Simply if you want the full function of the autoiso then the 1 series is the way to go, including ec as well

If you want full iso and can manage without camera ec then the 5DIII works fine in M mode. If you set the minimum speed too low then you will get over exposure as you said. So set the shutter speed so you are at iso400 most of the time and gives yourself two stops.

How difficult can it be?

[AvTvM]

...
If you read the whole thread you will have spotted that only the 1 series has the full limit on the shutter speed. I dont see any need to go through that debate again. Simply if you want the full function of the autoiso then the 1 series is the way to go, including ec as well
...
How difficult can it be?

Exactly ... how difficult can it be for Canon to finally implement a fully working Auto-ISO model in all of its DSLRs, or at the very least in those models which are targeted at pro and enthusiast target groups and priced accordingly. 

"just go buy a 1 series" is a typical answer I'd expect to hear from die-hard Canon fanboys or paid PR forum posters.

It is no SOLUTION whatsoever, as Canon's Auto-ISO feature even in the 1 series is not fully functional (as demonstrated earlier in this thread - e.g. it does not take into account focal length of lens attached) and is sub-par to what Nikon offers in the much less expensive, "second-tier" Nikon D800.

The 1/250s limit on the 5D III can only be rated as an act of "provocant, in-your-face marketing differentiation" by Canon. There is simply no other reason to explain this severe and mindless limitation.

So the only sensible course of action for people owning a 5D 3 or being interested to buy one is creating enough continued "noise" on the net to wake up Canon and have them implement this feature via a simple and dirt-cheap firmware update ... ASAP!

And no, I will NOT buy a Canon 1 series when all I want is a firmware upgrade to get state-of-the art  Auto-ISO on my 7D too.

[PhilDrinkwater]

I could write an algorithm (used to be a programmer) which would be the be all and end all for auto ISO. It would do everything everyone wanted and take care of all of the situations that it needed to. It would take me about 15 minutes (although coding much longer of course).

Canon chose not to do that with their implementation of auto ISO and it remains, along with the viewfinder red/black points issues, the only two disappointments with the camera.

I can't decide whether it's that they don't see it as a useful feature or if they want to keep it away from the 5d3.

I'll be honest - if this camera had a really good auto ISO I'd probably buy another one and retire my 5d2 entirely. I love the fact that all I need to worry about is EC. It's great!! However, it "only just" works in that, when I switch from my 50L to my 135L, I need to remember to set the shutter speed minimum and sometimes I forget. What's wrong with having settings per lens? What's wrong with having an option to override the settings you've put in the camera and using a shutter speed more relevant? I just don't get how hard it can be and it could be an AWESOME feature. I could spend SO much of my day on auto ISO if the feature was correctly implemented

[neuroanatomist]

Exactly ... how difficult can it be for Canon to finally implement a fully working Auto-ISO model in all of its DSLRs, or at the very least in those models which are targeted at pro and enthusiast target groups and priced accordingly. 

I think it's been pretty well established that there's no significant technical difficulty to implement this in all bodies down to the T3/1100D.  The fact that they haven't done so indicates that they have other reasons for not doing so. 

So, it's time to stop .

[awinphoto]

yawn...  shot several paid shoots so far with the 5d3, a few using auto iso....  no problems so far... got my min shutter set to 125 when using my 24-105, and auto iso does the rest.  but just think of it, seriously, 10 years ago there was no auto iso, you had to dial it in, use an external meter because in camera meters, if any, were crap, and even with that, you would buy a brick of film, waste the first roll of the brick testing it so you can dial in exactly how it will expose with your meter, and compensate from there... gasp... whatever did we do?  Going between indoor and outdoor scenes... you had to gasp, use more light, waste the rest of the roll to change film, or if you were the bomb, you kept notes on how far you were so when you went back to a roll you can auto advance by manually shooting blanks to get back to where you were without wasting rolls.  Dont get me wrong, I appreciate auto ISO, but i'm not going to blame it if i miss an exposure, afterall it is picking up after my lazy butt because i chose not to crunch the math and do it myself.  Also about the black dots, i offered a workaround for low light situations and black dots on the other thread but no one bothered to check it out.  Bright sunlight doesn't show the red confirmation, but if you cant see the dots in bright light, you need your eyes checked. 

[bloodstupid]

Some more years ago movies had not color and sound..some more, people made paintings...who cares what was.

Real fixes are always better than workarounds. Sure you can press 2 buttons for focusing to have it illuminated before AF start...but with the MII it was all in one button. BTW the problem with the non-illuminated AF points occurs when its dark. And this is the AutoISO wish thread.

[awinphoto]

Some more years ago movies had not color and sound..some more, people made paintings...who cares what was.

Real fixes are always better than workarounds. Sure you can press 2 buttons for focusing to have it illuminated before AF start...but with the MII it was all in one button. BTW the problem with the non-illuminated AF points occurs when its dark. And this is the AutoISO wish thread.

and yet the 7d has been around nearly as long and no one had any issues until now? 

[awinphoto]

Some more years ago movies had not color and sound..some more, people made paintings...who cares what was.

Real fixes are always better than workarounds. Sure you can press 2 buttons for focusing to have it illuminated before AF start...but with the MII it was all in one button. BTW the problem with the non-illuminated AF points occurs when its dark. And this is the AutoISO wish thread.

And since you brought up the 5d2, how did that AF work for ya?  I'd rather take all the benefits of the AF/level, ability to turn points on and off from view, etc than worry about dots that illuminate as you move your points on the one touch application to track moving subjects...  cant believe all the griping people do over the silliest things... 

[PhilDrinkwater]

yawn...  shot several paid shoots so far with the 5d3, a few using auto iso....  no problems so far... got my min shutter set to 125 when using my 24-105, and auto iso does the rest.  but just think of it, seriously, 10 years ago there was no auto iso, you had to dial it in, use an external meter because in camera meters, if any, were crap, and even with that, you would buy a brick of film, waste the first roll of the brick testing it so you can dial in exactly how it will expose with your meter, and compensate from there... gasp... whatever did we do?  Going between indoor and outdoor scenes... you had to gasp, use more light, waste the rest of the roll to change film, or if you were the bomb, you kept notes on how far you were so when you went back to a roll you can auto advance by manually shooting blanks to get back to where you were without wasting rolls.  Dont get me wrong, I appreciate auto ISO, but i'm not going to blame it if i miss an exposure, afterall it is picking up after my lazy butt because i chose not to crunch the math and do it myself.

I think this is missing the point. We can all take well exposed shots. We can all use a lightmeter. What we did was limit photography to those situations where we could take the photograph. Using manual methods, if I swing round and see a shot that I want and it's outdoors and I'm indoors, I physically won't have time to take the shot using the minimum ISO I could - or maybe even not at all if I hit 1/8000th.

I could easily go back to a 20 year way of shooting and my work would suffer for it. I'd rather move my photography onwards and expand my creative options as I go. 100 years ago people took 5 photos at a wedding and everyone had to stay very still. We don't want to move back to those times either. Computers are good at calculating things if the producers of technology see the opportunity it offers.

Auto ISO (if correctly implemented) does offer new opportunities. It gives you the option of taking shots you couldn't otherwise, as have many of the other technological advances.

"whatever did we do?" - we took a shot which isn't as good as the shot we could have taken today or we missed the opportunity. And it's not laziness - it's actually creativity and a desire to produce better work which drives this technology ... at least for me. It can do something in 1/1000th of a second which would take me *at least* 2 seconds to achieve and those 2 seconds matter sometimes.

Also, 1/125th isn't suitable for everyone - that's barely adequate for my 135f2 so now I have to go to 1/250th whereas 1/160th would be fine.

[awinphoto]

yawn...  shot several paid shoots so far with the 5d3, a few using auto iso....  no problems so far... got my min shutter set to 125 when using my 24-105, and auto iso does the rest.  but just think of it, seriously, 10 years ago there was no auto iso, you had to dial it in, use an external meter because in camera meters, if any, were crap, and even with that, you would buy a brick of film, waste the first roll of the brick testing it so you can dial in exactly how it will expose with your meter, and compensate from there... gasp... whatever did we do?  Going between indoor and outdoor scenes... you had to gasp, use more light, waste the rest of the roll to change film, or if you were the bomb, you kept notes on how far you were so when you went back to a roll you can auto advance by manually shooting blanks to get back to where you were without wasting rolls.  Dont get me wrong, I appreciate auto ISO, but i'm not going to blame it if i miss an exposure, afterall it is picking up after my lazy butt because i chose not to crunch the math and do it myself.

I think this is missing the point. We can all take well exposed shots. We can all use a lightmeter. What we did was limit photography to those situations where we could take the photograph. Using manual methods, if I swing round and see a shot that I want and it's outdoors and I'm indoors, I physically won't have time to take the shot using the minimum ISO I could - or maybe even not at all if I hit 1/8000th.

I could easily go back to a 20 year way of shooting and my work would suffer for it. I'd rather move my photography onwards and expand my creative options as I go. 100 years ago people took 5 photos at a wedding and everyone had to stay very still. We don't want to move back to those times either. Computers are good at calculating things if the producers of technology see the opportunity it offers.

Auto ISO (if correctly implemented) does offer new opportunities. It gives you the option of taking shots you couldn't otherwise, as have many of the other technological advances.

"whatever did we do?" - we took a shot which isn't as good as the shot we could have taken today or we missed the opportunity. And it's not laziness - it's actually creativity and a desire to produce better work which drives this technology ... at least for me. It can do something in 1/1000th of a second which would take me *at least* 2 seconds to achieve and those 2 seconds matter sometimes.

Also, 1/125th isn't suitable for everyone - that's barely adequate for my 135f2 so now I have to go to 1/250th whereas 1/160th would be fine.

Phil, I get your point and i'm all about innovation, or i wouldn't have gotten to where i am.  You have auto ISO, you have a minimum shutter speed you can set and the camera will abide by as long as it can get an accurate exposure, but in the end it is not a mind reader...   For what i'm concerned, the camera can do so much, it can calculate the exposure, calculate exposure based on the parameters of the min shutter THAT YOU SET, and there you go... unless you are shooting 400mm lenses or bigger and or teleconverters, the 1/250 minimum is plenty adequate unless you are shooting some oddball thing like races or whatever...  then in those situations where shutter is important, one click from AV to TV solves the shutter requirement issues.  This thread can be retitled.

[PhilDrinkwater]

For what i'm concerned, the camera can do so much, it can calculate the exposure, calculate exposure based on the parameters of the min shutter THAT YOU SET, and there you go...

I guess my background (which is a lot about usability) has made me look deeper for the ways that systems can help.. whether others want to use them is up to them, but I can guarantee that I could spec a system which would help some users much more than the current system.

It feels like the old "programmer spends 90% of the time making a system and then 10% of the time making it usable".

If Canon asked their customers what they want or took notice of feedback (I sent in feedback 3 years ago when I got my 5d2) then this thread and all of the other 5d3 auto ISO threads wouldn't exist.

For me, it's not a lesson for the users in how to live within what we're given, but for manufacturers to listen to their customers needs and satisfy them, especially in the face of competition (not just Nikon) which seems to have got it right.