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Author Topic: Have Canon 60d and want advice on next upgrade for my needs  (Read 9161 times)

KKCFamilyman

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Have Canon 60d and want advice on next upgrade for my needs
« on: March 16, 2012, 08:09:29 PM »
I have a 60d, 17-55 2.8 efs, 15-85mm, 430exII.

I need more focus points for taking pictures of my young active twins in the house and on vacations. I just want the best quality pictures and was thinking of either getting the 7d or the new 5d mkiii. I need more focus points and better low light iso. I like natural light pics not everything to have flash. If I bought the 5d I would only be able to get one lens and probably the kit but is it too much for me or would anyone have any other suggestions. I am not pro but seem to be the family photographer at all events and parties. I just want to make sure the 5d is the right move or a new lens. (budget within reason under $5k)
1Dx, 5D3, 16-35 f4 L IS, 24-70L II, 70-200 f2.8 IS II L, Sigma 35mm 1.4, 85mm 1.2 ii L, 100mm 2.8L macro, 70-300 L, 40mm 2.8, 3 x 600ex rt, ST-E3

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Have Canon 60d and want advice on next upgrade for my needs
« on: March 16, 2012, 08:09:29 PM »

Tijn

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Re: Have Canon 60d and want advice on next upgrade for my needs
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2012, 08:45:35 PM »
I have a 60d, 17-55 2.8 efs, 15-85mm, 430exII.

I need more focus points for taking pictures of my young active twins in the house and on vacations. I just want the best quality pictures and was thinking of either getting the 7d or the new 5d mkiii. I need more focus points and better low light iso. I like natural light pics not everything to have flash. If I bought the 5d I would only be able to get one lens and probably the kit but is it too much for me or would anyone have any other suggestions. I am not pro but seem to be the family photographer at all events and parties. I just want to make sure the 5d is the right move or a new lens. (budget within reason under $5k)

For low light performance, the 7D is the exact same as your current 60D. Any significant upgrade will have to be the full-frame.

The first 'current' full-frame body is the 5D mk2, it has significantly better noise performance than the 60D but its autofocus isn't all that great. Then comes the 5D mk3, which has slightly better noise performance than the 5D mk2 and vastly better autofocus. And more fps. And weathersealing. And so on.
But it's new, and pricy, and since pre-orders are clogged up it might be a while until you can get your hands on one.

But since you like natural light, I'd definately recommend in favor of going full-frame and against going for another crop camera (you're already pretty much at the top of the crop camera lineup with your 60D, anyways). Since you seem to have upgrade demands in the AF compartment, then, I'd recommend against the 5d mk2 and in favor of the 5d mk3. It's a bit of a punch price-wise, but you'll not need (nor be able) to significantly upgrade your camera for at least another 3 years, and even after that, your camera will still work the wonders it will work now.

Also, you'll have to buy new lenses, because your old lenses only work on crop bodies (the 17-55 and the 15-85). A good thing is that a full-frame camera gives more background blur at similar aperture and framing. Therefore the blur you got from your 17-55 can be bested with the f/4 (kit)lens on the full-frame camera. As such you only really need one lens to fill most of the range you used with your old two lenses, and that same lens also happens to be the kit lens with the 5d mk2 and 5d mk 3 (namely the EF 24-105mm f/4L IS lens). Buying it in the kit, it's very well worth its price.

The f/4 is a step backward in low light performance, but the body is two or three steps forwards. You still end up with a significant increase.

For real low-light shooting I'd recommend you get an extra large-aperture lens. The 50mm f/1.4 is affordable and very nice.

So then you'd be looking at a 5D mk3 with 61 focus points with a 24-105 f/4L kit lens for about $4300 total, and then a 50mm f/1.4 for $380... Though you'd still be lacking a lens in the tele compartment (which is nice to have for outings). A great choice lens in that range is the 70-300L IS; a very new, relatively compact and extremely sharp lens with a nice wide reach. Budget wise that'd no longer be under $5000 though (in total). Unless you hadn't yet included the money you can get back from selling the 60D and the two very nice lenses (which do still have decent value even if re-selling). Those together should easily sell for the price of a new 70-300L lens, and then some.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 08:48:21 PM by Tijn »

GMan

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Re: Have Canon 60d and want advice on next upgrade for my needs
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2012, 09:41:20 PM »
Keep the 60D with the 17-55 2.8.  This is really a fantastic low light combination for kids and school activities.  Don't be afraid of ISO 3200.  Look into NoiseNinja, great software to clean up the noise.

If you haven't already done so, for action, get use to using just the center focus point and AI Servo focusing.  Also, try back button focusing (Google “canon back button focus”).

Add a 7D body and a 70-200 2.8L IS II USM – an ideal combo for young active kids including indoor sports at school.  The 7D gives you the option of “expanding” the center focus point to use surround points to assist in tracking.  The dual processors also help.

Also add a 35 2.0.  Sharp at 2.0 on crop-sensors bodies, relatively cheap (at around $330) and handy for tougher low light conditions.

Two bodies, two zooms covering 17mm to 200mm, all at 2.8 and sharp from corner-to-corner, are tough to beat for covering low light events.  Now the only problem is carrying all that gear.  (Consider ThinkTank  Digital Holsters, #20 and #30. )

Terry Rogers

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Re: Have Canon 60d and want advice on next upgrade for my needs
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2012, 09:59:47 PM »
I have a 60d, 17-55 2.8 efs, 15-85mm, 430exII.

I need more focus points for taking pictures of my young active twins in the house and on vacations. I just want the best quality pictures and was thinking of either getting the 7d or the new 5d mkiii. I need more focus points and better low light iso. I like natural light pics not everything to have flash. If I bought the 5d I would only be able to get one lens and probably the kit but is it too much for me or would anyone have any other suggestions. I am not pro but seem to be the family photographer at all events and parties. I just want to make sure the 5d is the right move or a new lens. (budget within reason under $5k)

For low light performance, the 7D is the exact same as your current 60D. Any significant upgrade will have to be the full-frame.

The first 'current' full-frame body is the 5D mk2, it has significantly better noise performance than the 60D but its autofocus isn't all that great. Then comes the 5D mk3, which has slightly better noise performance than the 5D mk2 and vastly better autofocus. And more fps. And weathersealing. And so on.
But it's new, and pricy, and since pre-orders are clogged up it might be a while until you can get your hands on one.

But since you like natural light, I'd definately recommend in favor of going full-frame and against going for another crop camera (you're already pretty much at the top of the crop camera lineup with your 60D, anyways). Since you seem to have upgrade demands in the AF compartment, then, I'd recommend against the 5d mk2 and in favor of the 5d mk3. It's a bit of a punch price-wise, but you'll not need (nor be able) to significantly upgrade your camera for at least another 3 years, and even after that, your camera will still work the wonders it will work now.

Also, you'll have to buy new lenses, because your old lenses only work on crop bodies (the 17-55 and the 15-85). A good thing is that a full-frame camera gives more background blur at similar aperture and framing. Therefore the blur you got from your 17-55 can be bested with the f/4 (kit)lens on the full-frame camera. As such you only really need one lens to fill most of the range you used with your old two lenses, and that same lens also happens to be the kit lens with the 5d mk2 and 5d mk 3 (namely the EF 24-105mm f/4L IS lens). Buying it in the kit, it's very well worth its price.

The f/4 is a step backward in low light performance, but the body is two or three steps forwards. You still end up with a significant increase.

For real low-light shooting I'd recommend you get an extra large-aperture lens. The 50mm f/1.4 is affordable and very nice.

So then you'd be looking at a 5D mk3 with 61 focus points with a 24-105 f/4L kit lens for about $4300 total, and then a 50mm f/1.4 for $380... Though you'd still be lacking a lens in the tele compartment (which is nice to have for outings). A great choice lens in that range is the 70-300L IS; a very new, relatively compact and extremely sharp lens with a nice wide reach. Budget wise that'd no longer be under $5000 though (in total). Unless you hadn't yet included the money you can get back from selling the 60D and the two very nice lenses (which do still have decent value even if re-selling). Those together should easily sell for the price of a new 70-300L lens, and then some.

I agree. I suspect you would be significantly happier with the 5diii and kit 24 - 105 lens than your current setup. Add the 50mm 1.4 or 35mm 2.0 and you're golden. The 85mm 1.8 is also a great option as a secondary lens, if not now, in a year or two. The 85 1.8 would be great to capture your kids in school plays and stuff like that. Alternatively, the 70 - 200 f/4 non-is would be perfect for capturing your kids in any sports activities outside (and as you probably know is extremely affordable for the amount and quality of lens you get.
With the 5diii kit, you would only loose 30mm on the long end and retain the same short end focal length. Once you have your 5diii kit in hand, you could sell your 60d and two ef-s lenses for $1600 - $2000 depending on how quickly you wanted to get rid of them. If all the accounts I've read are accurate, you will be blown away upgrading from 60d to 5diii and will not likely want to upgrade again for many many years.
Good luck on your decision.
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YellowJersey

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Re: Have Canon 60d and want advice on next upgrade for my needs
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2012, 10:11:56 PM »
As the proud owner of a 24-105L I highly recommend it. It sounds like your needs are better satisfied by a fullframe body.

KKCFamilyman

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Re: Have Canon 60d and want advice on next upgrade for my needs
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2012, 10:58:04 PM »
thanks for the suggestions. i think the only logical step is the 5d3 kit and 50 1.4 prime.
yes i will be selling my current gear just to soften the financial blow. The question is will this dramatically improve my noise levels and be the best for a non pro? I do want the camera but want to make sure it will cover my needs for awhile and not regret it when the 7d mkii comes out. Finally will that setup be good for a family trip to disney? Also one more thing. I was hoping it would require less post work than my current set-up?
1Dx, 5D3, 16-35 f4 L IS, 24-70L II, 70-200 f2.8 IS II L, Sigma 35mm 1.4, 85mm 1.2 ii L, 100mm 2.8L macro, 70-300 L, 40mm 2.8, 3 x 600ex rt, ST-E3

kwwalla

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Re: Have Canon 60d and want advice on next upgrade for my needs
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2012, 11:00:15 PM »
Personally, I don't see any reason why you need to spend the extra $$$$ for the mark III when you can get buy with one of the most celebrated cameras of the decade (the 5D Mark II). I've shot weddings/events professionally with it for the last two years. Many people complain about its lackluster autofocus, but it's primarily in low light and can be overcome with an attached 403 or 580EX II with autofocus assist. Sure, it makes the camera a bit heavier, but when you think of the camera + flash + **(lense)** cost, you can come out way ahead by purchasing a 5DII + 580EXII + 24-70MM (mark I). Oh, and by the way, this is the combo that has brought me, and many others, much success over the last few years. I won't lie, I have a mark III pre-ordered, but my 5DII will stay in my arsenal and continue to serve me and my clients well into the future. Trust me, you won't be disappointed!

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Re: Have Canon 60d and want advice on next upgrade for my needs
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2012, 11:00:15 PM »

stabmasterasron

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Re: Have Canon 60d and want advice on next upgrade for my needs
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2012, 11:09:23 PM »
i think you would be better served getting more glass.  You camera body is fine.  For pics of kids around the house, no need to get a 5dmkiii.  Like killing an ant with a nuclear warhead.  First try getting some fast primes.  Then try a 70-200 2.8 zoom.  Rent them to see if you like them and if they fit your needs.  If you try these lenses out and they still are not making you happy, then take a photography course because it isn't the equipment holding you back.  If you have money burning a hole in your pocket, then fine, get the 5dmkiii - at least you will look like a pro.

KKCFamilyman

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Re: Have Canon 60d and want advice on next upgrade for my needs
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2012, 11:11:13 PM »
i want the 5d mkii but my concern is the metering 35 zone system and the af with the center pt being the only cross type sensitive at 2.8. i just feel if i'm going to make the leap why not for the 5d3 plus i like the 7d ergonomics it has like where the on\off is for example. I like that the af is sensitive at many fstops not just 2.8. i want the 5d2 for the price but is the quality that much better than my 60d for all the switching or would it be better to go 5d3 and not look back? I really appreciate everyone shelp here this is a hard decision for me. I do want to continue with expanding my skills. I love this stuff.
1Dx, 5D3, 16-35 f4 L IS, 24-70L II, 70-200 f2.8 IS II L, Sigma 35mm 1.4, 85mm 1.2 ii L, 100mm 2.8L macro, 70-300 L, 40mm 2.8, 3 x 600ex rt, ST-E3

KKCFamilyman

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Re: Have Canon 60d and want advice on next upgrade for my needs
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2012, 11:17:24 PM »
What prime would you suggest to start with? Would that be challenging chasing kids with a fixed focal length. My concern about the 70-200 2.8 is the weight and having little kids to watch and holding that would be a challenge. I would think if i went the ff route i would rent that for special occasions like my daughters ballet recital. I have thought about keeping my body and trying one of the new 24mm primes coming out along with the 24-70 mkii. Then going ff if that did not help. I of course would then start to sell off my efs lenses.
1Dx, 5D3, 16-35 f4 L IS, 24-70L II, 70-200 f2.8 IS II L, Sigma 35mm 1.4, 85mm 1.2 ii L, 100mm 2.8L macro, 70-300 L, 40mm 2.8, 3 x 600ex rt, ST-E3

stabmasterasron

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Re: Have Canon 60d and want advice on next upgrade for my needs
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2012, 11:38:36 PM »
i am in your same position, 2 young (very young) daughters.  I have a digital rebel and have just recently sold my ef-s lenses.  All i have left is a 50mm prime.  I am currently trying to decide which way to go. 
Most of my photography is indoors.  I have had, in the past, very expensive L zooms hanging around and guess what - when indoors, I find my 50mm 1.8 prime hanging on my camera most of the time.  With moving kids, IS just doesn't get the job done sometimes - they are still moving fast and IS can't do anything about that.
For a crop sensor, indoors in low light I would suggest either the 35L, or the 28 1.8 ( i have rented the 35L a few times and love the perspective and low light ability).
50mm is OK on crop.  i would not think of it as a general purpose lens on crop, a little too long (indoors anyway).  Something in the 30mm range would be better for general purpose.
With good light, the 70-200 2.8L II is a miracle.  Some of my best shots have been with this lens.  Somehow the perspective is just brilliant.  Hard to describe - you have to try it. 
Sneaker zooming with primes - not that bad.  Only bad part is when you can't back up any further - this is why I don't recommend 50mm prime indoors - you can get some nice head and shoulders, but full body might be a problem.

KKCFamilyman

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Re: Have Canon 60d and want advice on next upgrade for my needs
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2012, 11:49:59 PM »
I was considering the 35l but i figure if i leap ff then no more conversions just the focal length i intend plus the 50mm 1.4 is cheap and makes up for some of the body cost. I think if i did zoom i would get the 70-200 f4 is for the weight. Either way it is hard to make a decision when your trying to capture twins at the same time.
1Dx, 5D3, 16-35 f4 L IS, 24-70L II, 70-200 f2.8 IS II L, Sigma 35mm 1.4, 85mm 1.2 ii L, 100mm 2.8L macro, 70-300 L, 40mm 2.8, 3 x 600ex rt, ST-E3

stabmasterasron

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Re: Have Canon 60d and want advice on next upgrade for my needs
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2012, 12:09:12 AM »
Well, as i mentioned above, I am divested of all of my ef-s glass now and am also considering FF.  But I am either not as well healed as you, or maybe just not willing to invest as much money in this hobby because I am considering a 5d mk1 (that is right, not a mistype, mk1, not mk2).  I can pick up a used mk1 on craigslist for less than $1000.  It doesn't have the advanced AF of the mk3, but I only use the center AF point anyway.  Then yes, you are correct, a 50mm lens would be perfect perspective for me as well.  Then I might wait and see how the reviews come out on the new Tamron 24-70 2.8.

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Re: Have Canon 60d and want advice on next upgrade for my needs
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2012, 12:09:12 AM »

Zdog

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Re: Have Canon 60d and want advice on next upgrade for my needs
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2012, 12:23:02 AM »
I have to say that for family photography you have a fine rig as it stands. I doubt that you will see much if any improvement with a new body. That being said you do have to bond with your equipment and if you are not feeling it by all means upgrade. I would recommend buying the 50 1.4 and taking some classes or getting involved with photo meetups. The 50 will be an excellent portrait lens on the 60d and will give you time to see how the dslr landscape shakes out over the next several months.

bycostello

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Re: Have Canon 60d and want advice on next upgrade for my needs
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2012, 05:50:03 AM »
you'd probably be better keeping your original kit and using the money for some training courses...

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Re: Have Canon 60d and want advice on next upgrade for my needs
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2012, 05:50:03 AM »