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Author Topic: Unofficial Canon Mirrorless Concept  (Read 7389 times)

mike_s_one

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Re: Unofficial Canon Mirrorless Concept
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2012, 10:05:04 AM »
"We know a mirrorless camera from Canon is likely to appear in 2012. What form it takes is anyones guess."

I just reread the post. Unfortunately looking at the G1X I think we'll see a formfactor closer to that camera with interchangable lenses. And the G1X sensor as well.
Oh well, we can dream, right?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 10:07:07 AM by mike_s_one »

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Re: Unofficial Canon Mirrorless Concept
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2012, 10:05:04 AM »

stilscream

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Re: Unofficial Canon Mirrorless Concept
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2012, 10:17:26 AM »
Neat artwork David, but what is the point of mirrorless?
You have a great lens line-up that you're not going to use?
No, you either have an aps-c 7d-like camera so it's fps make it a mini 1d or if you're using whole new lenses, why not make a bigger, square sensor -- larger than 24x 36 the 35mm film standard. Seems to me the mirrorless are all entry level for a reason.
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Neeneko

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Re: Unofficial Canon Mirrorless Concept
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2012, 10:34:54 AM »
Neat artwork David, but what is the point of mirrorless?
You have a great lens line-up that you're not going to use?
No, you either have an aps-c 7d-like camera so it's fps make it a mini 1d or if you're using whole new lenses, why not make a bigger, square sensor -- larger than 24x 36 the 35mm film standard. Seems to me the mirrorless are all entry level for a reason.

The mirrorless systems are mostly entry level for perceptual/marketing reasons rather then technological.  DSLRs have a lot of inertia and status associated with them, mirrorless systems are going to have to prove themselves over time and gain acceptance before  the major manufacturers risk putting 'pro' features like advanced AF on them.

Technologically though it is just a case of 'mirror vs digital viewfinder', with the newest viewfinders getting pretty good (not to mention showing you what the sensor sees rather then the lens, which has a lot of potential for previewing white balance and dealing with the optical viewfinders uselessness in very low light situations).

DavidRiesenberg

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Re: Unofficial Canon Mirrorless Concept
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2012, 11:26:21 AM »
Just imagine if something like this came with the FD bayonet and a bunch of new lenses matched to that design.

That's certainly an interesting idea and something that I too will be all over. The only issue with the FD mount is that it too has quite a big flange depth which will cause the camera to be considerably thicker. Personally, I don't find that to be a bad thing because I like large cameras but for this concept here I tried to balance the best I can between design, functionality and size.

Plus, a FD mount adapter would be easy to implement without degrading IQ since it will not require any optical elements.

DavidRiesenberg

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Re: Unofficial Canon Mirrorless Concept
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2012, 11:30:49 AM »
Neat artwork David, but what is the point of mirrorless?
You have a great lens line-up that you're not going to use?
EF lenses could be used with an adapter. Having the adapter "built in" from the get go would be a disadvantage IMO since a lot of people do want a camera to be small as possible. And this one here is not really small to begin with.

Quote
why not make a bigger, square sensor -- larger than 24x 36 the 35mm film standard. Seems to me the mirrorless are all entry level for a reason.
I briefly thought about that but it would be even more unrealistic from a marketing point of view than this unrealistic concept. :)

Neeneko

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Re: Unofficial Canon Mirrorless Concept
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2012, 11:43:13 AM »
I briefly thought about that but it would be even more unrealistic from a marketing point of view than this unrealistic concept. :)

Well, there have been occasional rumblings about Canon entering the medium format market.  That would be an interesting place to test out such a design, esp since a lot of MF photographers are used to not having a mirror already.

CatfishSoupFTW

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Re: Unofficial Canon Mirrorless Concept
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2012, 11:50:41 AM »
curious how fast the burst fire would be. but the fact that it would possibly not support EF lenses makes me sad :(
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Re: Unofficial Canon Mirrorless Concept
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2012, 11:50:41 AM »

Jettatore

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Re: Unofficial Canon Mirrorless Concept
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2012, 11:51:12 AM »
I don't think Canon should enter the Mirrorless market in this way.

EOS mount is what it is.  In order for a mirror-less system to make sense and really use the smaller body possibilities, you need completely new lenses/accessories along with the new body style, at which point it doesn't matter what the name is on the camera or what equipment you already own in your existing collections.  There already are systems out there that handle this, Pan/Oly > Lumix/micro 4/3rds, etc. on the reasonable price/crop side, and Leica - M series, etc.  on the high price/FF side, and those systems have a huge advantage already in lens selection, etc..

Personally, for any sort of new compact style system, I think the best direction(s) for Canon is to pursue pushing the bounds of point and shoot cameras as well as higher end camera gear built into cell phones/technology partnerships.  There's money in that, there's interest in that, and the field is wide open.  Mirror-less/compact systems photography is a niche and it's already well covered by Leica/Panasonic and others.

Another great direction Canon can persue on EOS is bridging the gap between Full Frame and Medium Format.  Much like the partial compatibility between EF and EF-S, they could go the other direction and instead of a smaller sensor, go towards Medium Format sensors, with lenses to match that are compatible with Full Frame as well, possibly even vice versa with a circular image, like an 8mm fisheye on full frame which can be cropped to square/rectangle in post.  Right now a transition from entry level EF-S to Full Frame is do-able, but the jump from Full Frame to Medium Format is enormous and as sensor technology is near commonplace architecture it's nigh time to bring Medium Format to a wider market.  And this one might be hard to swallow but the idea of an open source camera system, one with interchange-able mounts from any vendor and user programmable functionality, is long over-due.  The markets of the future will no longer bear the outmoded, planned obsolescence/proprietary models of yesteryear, better to come to terms with that ahead of time rather then when it's too late.

(very nice 3D designs and renderings/concepts from the designer, very cool)
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 12:01:51 PM by Jettatore »

dtameling

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Re: Unofficial Canon Mirrorless Concept
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2012, 12:01:21 PM »
Neat artwork David, but what is the point of mirrorless?
You have a great lens line-up that you're not going to use?
No, you either have an aps-c 7d-like camera so it's fps make it a mini 1d or if you're using whole new lenses, why not make a bigger, square sensor -- larger than 24x 36 the 35mm film standard. Seems to me the mirrorless are all entry level for a reason.

I respectfully disagree that mirrorless is entry level. I've wanted a Canon mirrorless for a while. I stopped waiting and just bought a NEX-7. While it's no 5D or 1D, it easily matches or exceeds the performance of my 7D and destroys my G12...all in a package which is as pocketable. My 50D has been shelved, my G12 is now my wife's camera, and ALL of my old Minolta MC/MD and Nikkor manual focus lenses are being put back into use. I get more versatility and more performance in a package which weighs less and is more versatile.  My bag is now lighter but now carries 3 cameras instead of just 2 before as I no longer have to decide between the second DSLR and a pro camcorder.

Once the Metabones EF to NEX adapter is back in stock, I'll gladly pay the $400 and all of my fast L lenses will work with the NEX as well.

In fact the NEX is working so well for me so far that I'm considering jumping to Sony for my camcorder needs too. Canon doesn't seem interested in an interchangeable lens system with a large sensor in my price range. Sony has several.

If Canon can't match or exceed what Sony and others are doing, they shouldn't bother. But if they do, I'll buy...unless I've already bought an FS100...that's the true cost of being late to the party.

7enderbender

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Re: Unofficial Canon Mirrorless Concept
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2012, 12:34:40 PM »
Neat artwork David, but what is the point of mirrorless?
You have a great lens line-up that you're not going to use?
No, you either have an aps-c 7d-like camera so it's fps make it a mini 1d or if you're using whole new lenses, why not make a bigger, square sensor -- larger than 24x 36 the 35mm film standard. Seems to me the mirrorless are all entry level for a reason.


Not all. The M9 isn't - if you count a rangefinder as "mirrorless". I want Canon to give Leica a run for the money in that department. Either as a small and rugged full-frame manual DSLR (that would look and feel like my AE-1p for example) or a full frame rangefinder set with fast 35, 50 and 135mm lenses for total of under $5000. Or in other words: a camera for everyone who really wants an M9 but can't afford to shell out 15K or so. I mostly like my 5DII but that could be a camera I would love if done right.

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7enderbender

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Re: Unofficial Canon Mirrorless Concept
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2012, 12:40:17 PM »


Plus, a FD mount adapter would be easy to implement without degrading IQ since it will not require any optical elements.

That's true and it would be nice to have that option on a full frame camera. Ideally though I'd like to see them go back to the good old mechanical lever for the aperture. I know that it's not going to happen. Just saying.
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dtameling

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Re: Unofficial Canon Mirrorless Concept
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2012, 12:59:29 PM »
The Flange Focal Distance for FD is only 2mm less than the EF. Old EF lenses wouldn't be usable unless the body were beefy.

Though that seems to be fine for Olympus. The new K-01 follows that design though the jury is still out on if anybody adopts it...it's not much smaller than a K-5.

What could be done however is use the EF mount and instead of complex and expensive adapters like Sony has chosen to do for Alpha lenses, they would simply require an extension tube with electronic pass through for EF lenses. Then, just like they have done with EF-S, there would be a third type of EF...lets call it EF-X which would only work on the mirrorless cameras. They could ship the camera with the extension tube adapter at minimal additional cost...THAT would sell cameras as the body only option could be very appealing to folks like us. It would also eliminate the issue many other manufacturers have when they introduce a new camera with a new lens system: "It would be great but there's only 3 lenses available.".

CanineCandidsByL

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Re: Unofficial Canon Mirrorless Concept
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2012, 01:25:19 PM »
I'd only change two things in that spec...use the 5dm3 sensor since it seems better for video. Create a decent auto focus even if you have to use a second sensor (not through lens) to determine distances.

Ok maybe removable screen, even if wired.

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Re: Unofficial Canon Mirrorless Concept
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2012, 01:25:19 PM »

RobPan

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Re: Unofficial Canon Mirrorless Concept
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2012, 02:07:31 PM »
I fail to understand what the function of the pentaprism would be in a mirrorless camera. Where is the M-Leica-type viewfinder/rangefinder?
With some others I would prefer an 36x36 mm square format, kind of mini-Rollei so to say. A built-in flash is not needed (see the 5D). Flash is the plague of photography, gives ugly unnatural pictures and can be dispensed with most of the time if we can work with the extreme ISO speeds as seen in the 5D.
(The late Cas Oorthuys would have been delighted if he had been able to work with the 5D.)

Kind regards,

Rob.

crazyrunner33

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Re: Unofficial Canon Mirrorless Concept
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2012, 02:27:48 PM »
The Flange Focal Distance for FD is only 2mm less than the EF. Old EF lenses wouldn't be usable unless the body were beefy.

Though that seems to be fine for Olympus. The new K-01 follows that design though the jury is still out on if anybody adopts it...it's not much smaller than a K-5.

snip

I disagree, the 50mm 1.4 SSC and 400mm 4.5 SSC FD lenses work just fine on our GH2 which is smaller than a rebel but similar in size to a Canon F1. 



It'd be nice to have the short flange distance so we can use almost every lens possible, then I can get rid of the Panasonic.  Canon could make something similar to the C300, have two different mounts but instead of a PL mount they can have a mount with a short flange distance, then a mount that has EF built in for people who do not wish to play with adapters.

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Re: Unofficial Canon Mirrorless Concept
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2012, 02:27:48 PM »