November 24, 2014, 05:33:35 PM

Author Topic: AF might be way better, sensor barely at all, video mode only half fixed(?)  (Read 22771 times)

LetTheRightLensIn

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Nonsense. I quite enjoy trying to train an assistant on how to catch the sun at the correct angle with a reflector without having it get blown away in the wind :D Good times.

Hmm assistants you say? I think I just discovered where I have been going wrong. I need Kate Beckinsale as my photo assistant. Her magical glow will perfectly fill in shadows in all my scenes, no matter their scale. Hmm yes that's the ticket. Thanks. There is something somehow very appealing about this way to reach 15 stops dynamic range, something that I feel would be lacking were I to use a D800 instead.

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Bosman

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Nonsense. I quite enjoy trying to train an assistant on how to catch the sun at the correct angle with a reflector without having it get blown away in the wind :D Good times.

Hmm assistants you say? I think I just discovered where I have been going wrong. I need Kate Beckinsale as my photo assistant. Her magical glow will perfectly fill in shadows in all my scenes, no matter their scale. Hmm yes that's the ticket. Thanks. There is something somehow very appealing about this way to reach 15 stops dynamic range, something that I feel would be lacking were I to use a D800 instead.
:P ;D
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Aglet

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I think we all know that the 7D hasn't got the best IQ in the world - it is a consumer sports camera. The pro models are a different kettle of fish.

Yup, 7D's a less than ideal bit of gear.  Only got it as it promised better AF that the other bodies I had at the time & couldn't justify the cost of 1D4 for a little bit of action work.
Was hoping what i did shoot with it would let me wrangle the raw more than it does.  Alas... Altho, it's not so bad if I push the iso to 800 or more so random noise overpowers the Vertical banding.  Low iso on my particular 7D can be nasty at times.

OTOH, my 5D2 in initial trim was no peach either.
I think I found one with 1.06 or so firmware still on it; gonna grab some dark files to check for a difference.


Perhaps the DPP issue you refer to would explain why the image from my 1Ds3 is better than my 5D2.

I'm curious, what IQ difference are you finding between 5D2 and 1Ds3?

The DPP glitch I found caused some posterizing in shadow areas with Digic 4 bodies.  With Digic 3 bodies, taking the same shot, no posterization.
Recent versions of DPP reduced the problem, tho not completely last time I checked my reference file.  I just got some different raw converters to handle problem files.  LR3 worked great, DxO was OK too.

briansquibb

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I take some 2-3000 pictures a week so I haven't time for pixel peeking - just eyeball testing

The images from the 7D have never looked as good to me as any of the ff (or 1D4), just seemed cruder and coarser - even though they went through the same pp

The 7D images were never bad, just worse than the ff

The 1Ds3 renders skin tones better than the 5DII, particularly in the iso50-200 range. After than there is little to choose. I suspect it is better with reds. The 5D2 went a couple of weeks ago as it was just sitting around as I prefered to have either the 1D4 or the 1Ds3.

The 7D I got very cheap and use as a walkabout with the 70-300L. It also sits in the car as the 'just in case' camera. It sits in the bag with the 17-40, but this is rarely used on the 7D as I am not into wa as a rule athough I am into the 8-15 on the 1Ds3 for the fantastic artistic opportunities it opens up.


seekn

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I am getting bored with the endless discussions about theoretical dr.
At the risk of being repetitive, it's not theoretical.
If you really want to CHANGE things, you gotta bark up the right tree. CR forums is not exactly a big time Canon rep hangout, its more the hangout of antsy trawlers looking for news about the next canon gear release, and a few tech heads who like to spout technical specifications and math every so often. I don't fault you for trying to light a fire under Canon's collective ass and get them to improve DR...your just in the wrong place. I don't think they are really going to hear you from here. If you want to be effective, if you want to be a voice that is heard over the noise of rumormongering...i.e. if you want your SNR relative to the average Canon chatter to be clearly and audibly above the noise floor...you should find the right official Canon forum and make your voice heard there. At least then, your jihad against Canon DR limitations might actually produce a valuable outcome.

I've been a long time subscriber to CR, just read the forums on a daily basis but never bothered to write anything.  However I am compelled to agree here.  I totally get that LTRLI means well, however by constantly harping on how bad the canon DR is, it really takes the shine off of my hard-earned money to purchase my mark iii.  I have read many times and know that the DR is not as good as Nikon and fully understand the pros and cons of both.  I am grateful for all the information found on this forum, however after a certain point we all fully know what both camera's limitations are at this point.  Right now hearing the same complaints makes using my new camera less than blissful.  I come to these forums to discuss and read about canon rumors and equipment, not to hear how the competition is blowing our sensors out of the water and that unless I sell all my gear I cannot take a decent artistic picture.  I truly would love to have 3 more stops of DR, but honestly, I know that there is so much more to photography than DR, and our own individual differences as photographers makes the difference in DR negligible (really it does).  I hope canon does listen to everyone here and does work on improving its sensor.  I would like to see better resolution and DR in future FF cameras but for now it is what it is.  I would like to hear more about pros and cons of the cameras rather than beating a dead horse.   ;)  Thanks also to everyone on the forums for just being a wealth of information.  It is always the first and last webpage I look at when Im online. 
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 04:58:47 AM by seekn »

cinema-dslr

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Aglet

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..hope canon does listen to everyone hear and does work on improving its sensor.

I should have an opportunity to speak directly to a Canon Canada rep in a few weeks.  I'll be one more voice he hears supplying kudos and complaints about various aspects of their products.
This kind of feedback does get considered when delivered to the correct audience in an appropriate manner.

This forum has been a great source of information to me as well, and has confirmed some issues I've struggled with in recent years.  It's become a useful resource in a constant learning process, especially considering the pace at which things change compared to back in the days of film being king.

However, I agree, this should be more of a rumors forum.  :)

I think there is a more appropriate forum area on this site for discussing this kind of image quality and hardware limitations information.

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LetTheRightLensIn

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The 1Ds3 renders skin tones better than the 5DII, particularly in the iso50-200 range. After than there is little to choose. I suspect it is better with reds. The 5D2 went a couple of weeks ago as it was just sitting around as I prefered to have either the 1D4 or the 1Ds3.


Looking at the DxO metamerism index, the 1Ds3 does better on that than any of the recent stuff (5D2,D800,D4), it's possible that it's stronger color filters it had gave it the better skin tones (although it perhaps helps make it worse at higher ISOs than the 5D2 by letting a bit less light through).

I wonder what the 5D3 will be like in terms of the filters. The newest Nikons seem to have switched to the more color-blind type as Canon had post-1Ds3.

V8Beast

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Hmm assistants you say? I think I just discovered where I have been going wrong. I need Kate Beckinsale as my photo assistant. Her magical glow will perfectly fill in shadows in all my scenes, no matter their scale. Hmm yes that's the ticket. Thanks. There is something somehow very appealing about this way to reach 15 stops dynamic range, something that I feel would be lacking were I to use a D800 instead.

I said assistants, not models :) An assistant is usually some smelly, hairy, overweight dude that's hung over from the night before :)

As far as reflectors go, I don't ever see them going away, regardless of how much DR improves in the coming years. There's just a certain quality of light you can achieve with them, and I use them to manipulate highlights, reflections, and light volume more often than I use them for fill light.

Check out this video taken by a super high end commercial photographer. He's shooting with a Phase One P65, which does quite well at 13 stops of DR, according to DxOMark. What do you see 2:40 into the clip? That's right, a reflector :)

chmil. 

On a side note, that Phase One shutter sounds sweeet ;D

Bosman

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Hmm assistants you say? I think I just discovered where I have been going wrong. I need Kate Beckinsale as my photo assistant. Her magical glow will perfectly fill in shadows in all my scenes, no matter their scale. Hmm yes that's the ticket. Thanks. There is something somehow very appealing about this way to reach 15 stops dynamic range, something that I feel would be lacking were I to use a D800 instead.

I said assistants, not models :) An assistant is usually some smelly, hairy, overweight dude that's hung over from the night before :)

As far as reflectors go, I don't ever see them going away, regardless of how much DR improves in the coming years. There's just a certain quality of light you can achieve with them, and I use them to manipulate highlights, reflections, and light volume more often than I use them for fill light.

Check out this video taken by a super high end commercial photographer. He's shooting with a Phase One P65, which does quite well at 13 stops of DR, according to DxOMark. What do you see 2:40 into the clip? That's right, a reflector :)

chmil. 

On a side note, that Phase One shutter sounds sweeet ;D
Thanks for posting the vid Beast, I saw reflector at about 1min 22 sec too. :D
He must be paid 50g's to make a car look good on a shoot like that!
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Aglet

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The images from the 7D have never looked as good to me as any of the ff (or 1D4), just seemed cruder and coarser - even though they went through the same pp

I've also seen a "certain something" in differences from different bodies and the 7D is not my favorite.  To me it has a "gritty" feel even at lower iso and that could be anything.  I also have 60D and images from it are similar to the 7D, but ever so slightly different again, even discounting the 7D's more prominent banding in some shots.  I like the 60D output nearly as much as my old 40D but the 40D still gives me  subtleties in highlight areas I find less "digital" looking.

5D2 also doesn't give me output that looks the way I prefer either, almost always have to tweak tone curves in post.  OTOH, I've often been more satisfied with images from my older Digic 3 bodies for that same nebulous reason.

Even the old 5DC, which I didn't have either, was said to produce a very pleasant looking image for whatever reason.

And I guess that's why I'm one of the few (?) who likes to use DPP for post, it tends to maintain that Canon look and feel to the images better than other converters as long as I don't try to make too big of a change.  When I need to really push something, it seems DxO and LR do a more credible job but the result no longer has the same feel as a Canon DPP image that was nailed right to start with..

1D and 1Ds stuff has always looked a little better to me too. Unfortunately I don't have any of them to work with or even test.  I just don't shoot enough to justify getting one.  The 1Dx is something I will consider for the next year or so, IF it can deliver what I want and be worthwhile to me

I think part of the reason is the price you're paying on the 1 series.  You are getting the very best they can put into a body. Sensor, support electronics and other hardware and even internal design layout all contribute a little bit to the end result.  Sometimes the results are so subtle they're hard to quantify, but the difference in the end result is still tangible. (reminds me of high-end audio gear)
From the horizontal banding and other issues I've seen when looking at the big-picture noise levels I can speculate much of it has to do with minor shortcomings in support electronics, as well as sensor issues.  In a 1D body there's a little more physical room to do things better too, from design and engineering perspectives.

I hope the 1Dx performs as well as we hope and builds on the IQ rep of the 1Ds series with some seriously butt-kickin' good AF.

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