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Author Topic: D800 just took DXO Mark top spot...  (Read 12869 times)

Orion

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Re: Nikon D800 tested at DxOMark, gets the #1 spot
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2012, 12:42:29 PM »
dilbert, they also significantly improved the AF on the 5D3.

I feel the tests DxO runs is heavily biased towards Nikon anyways.  It's hard to believe not a single Canon camera is in the top 10, and the 7D isn't even in the top 50.

That is the interesting thing. According to DXO the 7D sensor rates very poorly but I'm not sure I could tell the difference between it and the D7000 sensor in an actual image.

And I'm really confused by the DXO rating on ISO. The real world images do NOT reflect what those numbers are saying. Maybe it has to do with upscaling or whatever (I don't know much about that however). Maybe someone can explain better.

Exactly my point... we are getting to worked up with numbers and not enough on final output/quality.  We're splitting hairs.

Would you all be saying that if it was the Canon 5DIII that scored 95 at DxO mark and was vastly superior to the D800?

They wouldn't . . . they would be "vindicated" and happy and joyous haha. . .

with props given to DxO!

BUT that didn't happen, and that never hyappened except with Nikon sensors, etc . . .

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Re: Nikon D800 tested at DxOMark, gets the #1 spot
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2012, 12:42:29 PM »

thewallbanger

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Re: Nikon D800 tested at DxOMark, gets the #1 spot
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2012, 12:43:49 PM »
I feel the tests DxO runs is heavily biased towards Nikon anyways.  It's hard to believe not a single Canon camera is in the top 10, and the 7D isn't even in the top 50.

Those sensor tests are pretty objective.  I don't see any reason for DxO to misrepresent their findings.
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Bruce Photography

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Re: Nikon D800 tested at DxOMark, gets the #1 spot
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2012, 12:43:57 PM »
So in case anyone from Canon is reading (or someone that knows someone at Canon), this is the kind of sensor performance we are (or should I say were!) expecting with the 5DIII.

From all of the early testing thus far, it is quite clear that the 5DIII will be nowhere near the D800 in terms of sensor performance.

Just improving low-light, high-iso a little bit is not enough. Just giving us more FPS is not enough.

Especially when Canon's #1 competitor has just released a camera that gives photographers everything that they were looking for in the 5DIII with the exception of higher shooting speed.

I'll give Canon until the end of the year before I jump ship, which effectively means I'm going to jump ship because they cannot release a new FF camera with a sensor to at least equal the D800 in less than a year. But for a good while, there is just going to be a feeding frenzy around the D800 so it will be hard to come by and deals non-existent.

And if I had of placed an order for a 5DIII and it had not yet shipped, I'd be ringing up right now and canceling that order because the testing thus far puts the D800 miles and miles ahead of the 5DIII in terms of sensor performance.

While I'm not jumping the Canon ship, I have had a D800e on order for almost a month.  But Dilbert is quite right.  I just received an email from B&H that said that they have no idea when Nikon will deliver their stock and that I should prepare to wait for 2 months to receive mine.  This is what I was concerned about when I placed the order and now I'm more concerned as ever.  However my Canon gear (5DMK2) is still will service me just fine with all that great glass.  I have prepared by buying the Nikon 14-24mm on my 5d2 using the Novoflex adapter.  I've just finished more testing so I pretty much know how the funky markings on the Novoflex translate into F-stops (very roughly).  It is like going back in time for me.

From a Canon point of view - what good is having the top rated sensor (NikonD800) if there is no way to actually BUY the camera.  Actually a very good point.
 

awinphoto

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Re: Nikon D800 tested at DxOMark, gets the #1 spot
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2012, 12:45:06 PM »
Haha V8 =)  As far as I can recall with the DxO goes, nikon's sensors, according to their tests, have always bested Canon's sensors, or at least in the last half decade or so... Whether it was D700 vs 5d2, 50D or 7D vs D300(s) or D90, etc... Coincidence?  maybe.  Bias based on testing method?  Maybe.  Nikon has better sensors?  maybe.  I definately am not going to start sensationalizing Canon or flaming DxO.  Frankly, if DxO tests the 5d3 and finds it better than the D800, i would be shocked.  But in the end, i think image quality on all these upper tier cameras are getting so good across the board that we are really splitting hairs with these numbers...  Do i think canon will release a big MP monster within 12-16 months?  I can definitely see it, after all they have a reputation for wanting to prove who's shlong is longer in that department, but in the end the 5d3 is a fine camera and I cant wait to shoot with mine.

Big MP monster is not enough. They also need to improve the quality of the output of the sensor right across the ISO range - exactly what they have not done (so far as we can tell) with the 5DIII.

Dilbert, I'm not arguing there isn't room for improvement but quite frankly, if you want a canon sensor that will test better across the board on DxO, forget it... aint going to happen any time soon... Much like every review website, they all found the 7D as good if not better than the D300s, DPR saying it was a D300 killer, but DxO you would never have gotten that impression.  Plus, for what it's worth, the 5d3 is a better camera across the board than the 5d2, even though it's sensor is very close in low ISO's... The D700 tests well vs the 5d2... but that hasn't stopped national geographics staff and contract photogs from using the 5d2 out in the field.  I'm sure you've heards of the magazine, they wouldn't allow crap into their magazine... just saying. 
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EYEONE

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Re: Nikon D800 tested at DxOMark, gets the #1 spot
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2012, 12:46:38 PM »
dilbert, they also significantly improved the AF on the 5D3.

I feel the tests DxO runs is heavily biased towards Nikon anyways.  It's hard to believe not a single Canon camera is in the top 10, and the 7D isn't even in the top 50.

That is the interesting thing. According to DXO the 7D sensor rates very poorly but I'm not sure I could tell the difference between it and the D7000 sensor in an actual image.

And I'm really confused by the DXO rating on ISO. The real world images do NOT reflect what those numbers are saying. Maybe it has to do with upscaling or whatever (I don't know much about that however). Maybe someone can explain better.

Exactly my point... we are getting to worked up with numbers and not enough on final output/quality.  We're splitting hairs.

Would you all be saying that if it was the Canon 5DIII that scored 95 at DxO mark and was vastly superior to the D800?

They wouldn't . . . they would be "vindicated" and happy and joyous haha. . .

with props given to DxO!

BUT that didn't happen, and that never hyappened except with Nikon sensors, etc . . .

I appreciate you answering for me ( ::) ) but I absolutely would. I've never put much stock in DXO. I wasn't the one that said they were biased against Canon. I don't think they are bias I just think they are ultimately useless.
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Orion

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Re: Nikon D800 tested at DxOMark, gets the #1 spot
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2012, 12:47:06 PM »
still, though . .. shouldn;t we all be waiting instead for the much more in depth dpreview scores . . . . they take longer to complete a review and they make it much more in depth . . so we can stop reading the DxO site's asterisks /reminders about the final scores they post. . . .
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 12:50:25 PM by Orion »

HughHowey

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Re: Nikon D800 tested at DxOMark, gets the #1 spot
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2012, 01:03:40 PM »
great news..canon already lost me..my first FF (D800) camera going to be the best one

Same here. I just check in now and then to watch this train wreck of epic proportions. I've gone from disappointment to disgust. No USB 3.0? Some of the decisions are just weird. Laziness and trying to protect their own line while Nikon and Sony take market share.

I hope I can offload these lenses.
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Re: Nikon D800 tested at DxOMark, gets the #1 spot
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2012, 01:03:40 PM »

RichATL

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Re: Nikon D800 tested at DxOMark, gets the #1 spot
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2012, 01:04:59 PM »
The thing everyone should keep in mind is that DXO isn't testing with Lenses yet... It's testing JUST THE SENSOR...

While it may be the best sensor available...
the consensus on every review that I've seen is that it is TOO GOOD...
How is it that even possible?
Well, the lenses can't hold up to the quality of the sensor...
one brief example is Chromatic aberration...
If the 85 1.4 was producing a 1.5 px wide magenta fringe on the D700, it'll now produce a 3px wide aberration. 
Sensor size didn't change... but the number of recording pixels increased.. increasing resolution.. but  simultaneously increasing artifacts caused by lens flaws.

The true test will be when they start running lens tests on the camera.

Until then...I wouldn't even sweat it...

OH... FYI... a few years back canon halted development on the 1DsIV because the sensor they were developing was better than their glass...

KeithR

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Re: Nikon D800 tested at DxOMark, gets the #1 spot
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2012, 01:08:35 PM »

In the past they wrote an article on how the S95's sensor performed better than that of the D3s. Does that sound like bias towards Nikon to you?

And does that sound like a remotely credible conclusion to you?

I don't think DxO is "biased" per se but I do believe that their methodology is inherently skewed against Canon sensor technology, and not necessarily in a fair - or significant-to-the-end-result - way.

Someone else has suggested he'd expect that in Real World use, there'd be very little between the 7D and D7000: I can say with absolute rock-solid certainty that he's right, because I've torture-tested umpteen D7000 files in comparison to my 7D's output (I shoot shoulder-to-shoulder with someone who regularly uses a D7000) and in actual use there's absolutely sweet FA to choose between them - even when hammering the shadows in PP - once you're beyond 100 ISO.

Yet that tiny little advantage - the extra usable DR at base ISO - gets the D7000 a hugely "superior" DxO rating, which is utterly irrelevant in the Real World. 

Frankly, I couldn't give a toss about what DxO has to say about either the D800 or the 5D Mk III: my eyes tell me what I need to know, and everything I've seen so far suggests that while each will have its strengths, neither will be significantly better than the other at the image level.

And nothing else matters.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 01:13:01 PM by KeithR »

KeithR

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Re: Nikon D800 tested at DxOMark, gets the #1 spot
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2012, 01:10:02 PM »
to watch this train wreck of epic proportions.

Oh, don't be such a bloody drama queen.

well_dunno

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Re: Nikon D800 tested at DxOMark, gets the #1 spot
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2012, 01:12:13 PM »
Even though I like DxO kind of a reference database and I do look at the data they publish,

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/News/DxOMark-news/Canon-EF-70-200mm-f-2.8L-IS-II-USM-measurements-and-review

suggests 70-200 f/2.8 II is softer than version 1. Upon complaints, they had controlled the results and suggested the results were correct if I am not mistaken...

Maybe biased, maybe not, their scores do not tell the whole story either way... IMHO anyway...
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 01:14:09 PM by well_dunno »

JR

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Re: Nikon D800 tested at DxOMark, gets the #1 spot
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2012, 01:27:53 PM »
Even though I like DxO kind of a reference database and I do look at the data they publish,

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/News/DxOMark-news/Canon-EF-70-200mm-f-2.8L-IS-II-USM-measurements-and-review

suggests 70-200 f/2.8 II is softer than version 1. Upon complaints, they had controlled the results and suggested the results were correct if I am not mistaken...

Maybe biased, maybe not, their scores do not tell the whole story either way... IMHO anyway...

Interesting because that lens is soooooooo sharp! 
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well_dunno

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Re: Nikon D800 tested at DxOMark, gets the #1 spot
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2012, 01:32:15 PM »
indeed!

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Re: Nikon D800 tested at DxOMark, gets the #1 spot
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2012, 01:32:15 PM »

unfocused

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Re: Nikon D800 tested at DxOMark, gets the #1 spot
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2012, 01:34:38 PM »
Quote
But in the end, i think image quality on all these upper tier cameras are getting so good across the board that we are really splitting hairs with these numbers

True that. In fact, I'd say that's the case with almost all the DSLRs, even the Rebels. Make a 16x20 print from any Canon or Nikon and for 99% of shooting conditions, no one will be able to tell the difference between the $700 and the $6,000 camera. 

The debates on this forum remind me of Sayre's Law: "Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because the stakes are so low."

preppyak

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Re: Nikon D800 tested at DxOMark, gets the #1 spot
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2012, 01:36:32 PM »
That is the interesting thing. According to DXO the 7D sensor rates very poorly but I'm not sure I could tell the difference between it and the D7000 sensor in an actual image.
The true test will be when they start running lens tests on the camera.
That's what makes the sensor rating sort of irrelevant as a whole. The sensor is only as good as the glass you put in front of it. So, if anything, DxO is saying that Nikon lenses are generally inferior, if people loved the 5dMII more than its competitors, yet the competitors sensors were better.

As for the ISO #'s, DxO does say to take them with a grain of salt.
Quote
    As with all DxOMark scores, we take into account only image quality. It does not address such other important criteria as image signal processing, mechanical robustness, ease of use, flexibility. These scores are obtained after normalization see “Detailed computation of DxOMark Sensor normalization” for more information.

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Re: Nikon D800 tested at DxOMark, gets the #1 spot
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2012, 01:36:32 PM »