Any thoughts on how the 5d3 will compare on dxo mark to the Nikon D800?

[V8Beast]

A non controlled environment. I am coming from a Canon 60d and the noise is terrible above 800 without a speedlite and even then way to noisy. I would hope such a leap to FF and better technology would yield much better results just unsure if the d800 is the way to go or the canon 5d3. So far I have not seen the tremendous noise free 25k iso images in reviews actually I think it drops off at 6400 and continues from there. That's not much of an increase considering they are talking native 25k iso. So I was wondering if nikon was doing the reverse and saying 6400 with a true ceiling of 12800 or at least some very detailed images below 800. I do shoot in all kinds of light so that is why iso is so important. I also need a larger DOF since usually there are more than one person in my shots.

I'm not trying to sound like a smart@ass, but would it be at all possible to match up your 60D with a tripod or a Speedlite? I just don't see why anyone needs to spend $3,000 to $3,500 to take family portraits. By "larger" DOF, do you mean shallow or deep DOF?

[poias]

Without a doubt, D800 with lab proven DR 14+, its ISO 2800+, and a 36mpx detail totally blows its competition away. Heck, it is a $10,000 camera for less than 1/3rd price! No, good photographers will not get worse by using it... on the contrary, bad photographers might gain advantage by its cropping ability and other unmatched features.

Is it just the specs and lab tests of the D800 that you find so impressive, or do you find the D800's image quality equally as impressive?

All of the above!

D800 has amazing samples and amazing lab results. What more can you ask for?

Some more contrast and color. The 5DIII's files look sharper to me as well. All the D800 images I've seen so far look flat and lifeless. The D800's spec sheet is very impressive, but its images just aren't doing it for me. I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I'm not one of those guys that gets a hard-on by blowing up an image up to 100% and oogling at the minute details that won't be reproduced in print anyways. 

My 5DIII shipped yesterday, and I'm wondering why I haven't cancelled by D800 pre-order yet. At this point, the only reason I haven't done so yet is because it's shabbat, and B&H is closed until Monday

OOC jpgs are really used as previews by us, so RAWs are really that count. Our shop does a lot of PP, so having high DR and high res that D800 has is advantage. Bring out all contrast and color from the RAWs. But for snapshots at low light, 5D3 jpgs are sufficient. Cheers.

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I was going to get the canon but am unsure of how the 5d3 will fair out on dxomark. Any thoughts. Good noiseless images at iso 12800 are my goal.

It's going to get destroyed by the D800 at ISO 100, but, hopefully, will be close at high ISO, probably anywhere from slightly worse to slightly better (although a couple recent samples make me worried it might not be the 2/3rds stop better I expected, so I'm not quite sure now, at the super duper high ISOs the better noise character will be an improvement in that the images would at least have a usable look even if almost as noisy since the nicer noise won't make them look like ugly junk, so at worst, the super, super high ISO will be better than the 5D2).

ISO100-400 D800 all the way by a mile because of all of the extra MP and so much great dynamic range. ISO800-1600 D800 probably still better. ISO3200 and up perhaps pretty similar for both, maybe near the super top the 5D3 pulls ahead? The ISO800+ stuff I'm mostly guessing at though. Maybe the 5D3 will better compared to the D800 then I'm guessing.

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I was going to get the canon but am unsure of how the 5d3 will fair out on dxomark. Any thoughts. Good noiseless images at iso 12800 are my goal.

your goal is unobtainable, even by Nikon.  You won't get noiseless images at 12,800.  Useable images? Depends what size you need to print.  So what does that make the DxO review?  Pretty pointless in my view.  I'm more interested in results I can see on my paper rather than pixel peeping at levels noone sane and not a geek will ever look at.

I agree that the statistical rating presented on DxO don't mean squat in terms of what kind of images you will produce between a 5DmkIII or D800.  It would be more beneficial to rent a D800 and 5DmkIII before deciding on a purchase and use it for yourself. Shoot with it and post the photos according to your own workflow and needs, then decide on which one is the better camera for you. Not which one is the better camera.... but which one is the better camera for YOU. A tech-geek can read and absorb all the information in the world about camera gear and still not know how to produce nice photos. 

And someone who doesn't understand anything technical can sit in their backyard and take out of focus pics of cats all day long.

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Without a doubt, D800 with lab proven DR 14+, its ISO 2800+, and a 36mpx detail totally blows its competition away. Heck, it is a $10,000 camera for less than 1/3rd price! No, good photographers will not get worse by using it... on the contrary, bad photographers might gain advantage by its cropping ability and other unmatched features.

Is it just the specs and lab tests of the D800 that you find so impressive, or do you find the D800's image quality equally as impressive?

yes, trying looking at a raw shot of a scene with huge DR you can keep the bright parts looking perfect and make the shadows look great too, 14.4 stops of DR, yes it can be seen with the right types of shots an dit can be a huge difference, of course if you shoot a scene that has 7 stops in it then no difference at all (well it does still have 50%more mP)

if you shoot mostly ISO3200-12,800 then the D800 probably won't do much for you that the 5D3 won;t, although this part remains to be well tested

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I guess I should have rephrased my question. Does anyone think the nikon d800 is a better all around sensor and camera than the canon 5d3 in terms of sharpness and detail at all iso's under 12,800? Basically is that a camera to consider for family photography?

Do you mean professional family portraits in a studio? Or casual family photos like you would take for fun at home or even on location professional candid shots at events?

If you're in a studio then I can see that the D800 may be the more logical choice. But if you're not in a controlled environment the 5DmkIII would be better.

actually a controlled environment might mean you can make sure ot only shoot lower DR scenes while uncontrolled might get you into MORE trouble

[takoman46]

A non controlled environment. I am coming from a Canon 60d and the noise is terrible above 800 without a speedlite and even then way to noisy. I would hope such a leap to FF and better technology would yield much better results just unsure if the d800 is the way to go or the canon 5d3. So far I have not seen the tremendous noise free 25k iso images in reviews actually I think it drops off at 6400 and continues from there. That's not much of an increase considering they are talking native 25k iso. So I was wondering if nikon was doing the reverse and saying 6400 with a true ceiling of 12800 or at least some very detailed images below 800. I do shoot in all kinds of light so that is why iso is so important. I also need a larger DOF since usually there are more than one person in my shots.

Comparing the 60D to the 5D is like comparing night and day. If the performance jump in all areas is tremendous. hence the reason for you spending $2400 more lol  . A 60D is still however more than capable for attaining nice shots if you use a speedlite to compensate for not boosting higher ISO. The better ISO performance of the 5D will only make your job easier in one aspect by giving you more freedom to boost ISO and achieve faster shutter speeds at smaller apertures (thus giving you a deeper DOF or more in focus). In any case, it's still best to use flash if you are able to (i.e. not in a venue where flash is forbidden).

[takoman46]

I guess I should have rephrased my question. Does anyone think the nikon d800 is a better all around sensor and camera than the canon 5d3 in terms of sharpness and detail at all iso's under 12,800? Basically is that a camera to consider for family photography?

Do you mean professional family portraits in a studio? Or casual family photos like you would take for fun at home or even on location professional candid shots at events?

If you're in a studio then I can see that the D800 may be the more logical choice. But if you're not in a controlled environment the 5DmkIII would be better.

actually a controlled environment might mean you can make sure ot only shoot lower DR scenes while uncontrolled might get you into MORE trouble

Uncontrolled is the name of the game when shooting many on-location jobs. I agree that it definitely can cause you a ton of trouble but somebody's got to do the job right? So if you choose to take the job, then it will only help you to have a camera that makes accomplishing your job easier.

[V8Beast]

OOC jpgs are really used as previews by us, so RAWs are really that count. Our shop does a lot of PP, so having high DR and high res that D800 has is advantage. Bring out all contrast and color from the RAWs. But for snapshots at low light, 5D3 jpgs are sufficient. Cheers.

I'm referring to sample raw files between both bodies, not jpegs. Of course more DR is always an advantage, but for some reason the D800's files don't look that great to me.

[Wrathwilde]

This is what I'm expecting, for the 5D3 vs D800

Overall Score - 84  (95 - D800)

Color Depth - 24 bits  (25.3 - D800)

Dynamic Range - 12.4  Evs  (14.4 - D800)

Low-Light ISO - 3200  (2853 - D800)


This is what I'm expecting, for the 1D X vs D4

Overall Score - 86 (89 - D4)

Color Depth - 24 bits  (24.7 -D4)

Dynamic Range - 12.6 Evs  (13.1 - D4)

Low-Light ISO - 3400 (2965 - D4)

Hope to hell I'm wrong about the Color Depth and DR.

Edited to bring in actual scores for the D800 and D4

[LetTheRightLensIn]

This is what I'm expecting, realistically, for the 5D3...

Overall Score - 84 

Color Depth - 24 bits 

Dynamic Range - 12.4  Evs

Low-Light ISO - 3200 


This is what I'm expecting, realistically, for the 1D X...

Overall Score - 86 

Color Depth - 24 bits 

Dynamic Range - 12.6 Evs 

Low-Light ISO - 3400

Hope to hell I'm wrong.

I expect Dynamic Range - 11.8 - 5D3 (because quite a few of us have already measured it thus  before we measured it I had expected a solid 13-13.5 stops and was horrified by my measurements showing it a fraction worse than my 5D2)
                                        12.5 - 1DX (because I'm foolishly trusting the Canon reps promising it's 1 stop better than the 5D3, so I"m giving it 0.7 stops better  we will see, this one is a total guess)

we have D800 - 14.4
              D4 - 13.1 I think, something like that

[KKCFamilyman]

A non controlled environment. I am coming from a Canon 60d and the noise is terrible above 800 without a speedlite and even then way to noisy. I would hope such a leap to FF and better technology would yield much better results just unsure if the d800 is the way to go or the canon 5d3. So far I have not seen the tremendous noise free 25k iso images in reviews actually I think it drops off at 6400 and continues from there. That's not much of an increase considering they are talking native 25k iso. So I was wondering if nikon was doing the reverse and saying 6400 with a true ceiling of 12800 or at least some very detailed images below 800. I do shoot in all kinds of light so that is why iso is so important. I also need a larger DOF since usually there are more than one person in my shots.

Comparing the 60D to the 5D is like comparing night and day. If the performance jump in all areas is tremendous. hence the reason for you spending $2400 more lol  . A 60D is still however more than capable for attaining nice shots if you use a speedlite to compensate for not boosting higher ISO. The better ISO performance of the 5D will only make your job easier in one aspect by giving you more freedom to boost ISO and achieve faster shutter speeds at smaller apertures (thus giving you a deeper DOF or more in focus). In any case, it's still best to use flash if you are able to (i.e. not in a venue where flash is forbidden).

I want a deeper dof than my 60d can offer bringing multiple people in focus and be able to shoot with a faster shutter speed. For example i took a shot tonight indoors with poor lighting of the kids playing on the floor and my speedlite was not handy so i had to shoot 1/15 f4 iso3200 to get them and boy was it noisy you would have thought it was 12,800 and with such a slow speed they hands were blurred from motion. I want to be able to get those shots. So assuming i was using the 5d3 there i would hope to have shot it at 1/60 at least. With an increase in iso of course. I used the 17-55 efs. Yeah i could have used a lower fstop like 2.8 but then it would have been harder to get them in focus as they were not on the same focal distance. Any suggestions as to which camera is right is greatly appreciated.

[LetTheRightLensIn]

A non controlled environment. I am coming from a Canon 60d and the noise is terrible above 800 without a speedlite and even then way to noisy. I would hope such a leap to FF and better technology would yield much better results just unsure if the d800 is the way to go or the canon 5d3. So far I have not seen the tremendous noise free 25k iso images in reviews actually I think it drops off at 6400 and continues from there. That's not much of an increase considering they are talking native 25k iso. So I was wondering if nikon was doing the reverse and saying 6400 with a true ceiling of 12800 or at least some very detailed images below 800. I do shoot in all kinds of light so that is why iso is so important. I also need a larger DOF since usually there are more than one person in my shots.

Comparing the 60D to the 5D is like comparing night and day. If the performance jump in all areas is tremendous. hence the reason for you spending $2400 more lol  . A 60D is still however more than capable for attaining nice shots if you use a speedlite to compensate for not boosting higher ISO. The better ISO performance of the 5D will only make your job easier in one aspect by giving you more freedom to boost ISO and achieve faster shutter speeds at smaller apertures (thus giving you a deeper DOF or more in focus). In any case, it's still best to use flash if you are able to (i.e. not in a venue where flash is forbidden).

I want a deeper dof than my 60d can offer bringing multiple people in focus and be able to shoot with a faster shutter speed. For example i took a shot tonight indoors with poor lighting of the kids playing on the floor and my speedlite was not handy so i had to shoot 1/15 f4 iso3200 to get them and boy was it noisy you would have thought it was 12,800 and with such a slow speed they hands were blurred from motion. I want to be able to get those shots. So assuming i was using the 5d3 there i would hope to have shot it at 1/60 at least. With an increase in iso of course. I used the 17-55 efs. Yeah i could have used a lower fstop like 2.8 but then it would have been harder to get them in focus as they were not on the same focal distance. Any suggestions as to which camera is right is greatly appreciated.

it sounds like you will be shooting at ISO6400-12,800?
in that case the D800 probably wont do any better image wise and the images will take up more space and the 5D3 has more fps, then it comes down to whcih has better af under such conditions

[takoman46]

A non controlled environment. I am coming from a Canon 60d and the noise is terrible above 800 without a speedlite and even then way to noisy. I would hope such a leap to FF and better technology would yield much better results just unsure if the d800 is the way to go or the canon 5d3. So far I have not seen the tremendous noise free 25k iso images in reviews actually I think it drops off at 6400 and continues from there. That's not much of an increase considering they are talking native 25k iso. So I was wondering if nikon was doing the reverse and saying 6400 with a true ceiling of 12800 or at least some very detailed images below 800. I do shoot in all kinds of light so that is why iso is so important. I also need a larger DOF since usually there are more than one person in my shots.

Comparing the 60D to the 5D is like comparing night and day. If the performance jump in all areas is tremendous. hence the reason for you spending $2400 more lol  . A 60D is still however more than capable for attaining nice shots if you use a speedlite to compensate for not boosting higher ISO. The better ISO performance of the 5D will only make your job easier in one aspect by giving you more freedom to boost ISO and achieve faster shutter speeds at smaller apertures (thus giving you a deeper DOF or more in focus). In any case, it's still best to use flash if you are able to (i.e. not in a venue where flash is forbidden).

I want a deeper dof than my 60d can offer bringing multiple people in focus and be able to shoot with a faster shutter speed. For example i took a shot tonight indoors with poor lighting of the kids playing on the floor and my speedlite was not handy so i had to shoot 1/15 f4 iso3200 to get them and boy was it noisy you would have thought it was 12,800 and with such a slow speed they hands were blurred from motion. I want to be able to get those shots. So assuming i was using the 5d3 there i would hope to have shot it at 1/60 at least. With an increase in iso of course. I used the 17-55 efs. Yeah i could have used a lower fstop like 2.8 but then it would have been harder to get them in focus as they were not on the same focal distance. Any suggestions as to which camera is right is greatly appreciated.

Your DOF is controlled by your aperture setting. You will need to shoot at a higher aperture in order to get a large group of people in focus. Think of it this way, the 61pt AF system will help you focus more accurately, not increasing DOF and bringing more subjects into focus at the same time.  This is where composition comes into play. You need to set your aperture to allow the appropriate DOF in your shot and position the people in such a way that they all fit into the DOF. The ISO performance will definitely help you achieve faster shutter speeds in available light or for shooting over longer distances that flash won't reach.

Now that I understand what you are trying to do, I think it's pretty safe to say that the 5DmkIII will be your better option. BTW, I just received mine and played with it for a bit. I must say, regardless of specs in reviews and comparisons to the 5DmkII; I instantly realized first hand that the 5DmkIII is a beast of a camera!    It's a completely different animal from the mkII (which I also have). So instead of calling the 5DmkIII a merge between a 5DmkII and 7D, it's more like it took the ergonomics of a 7D and merged the 5DmkII and 1DX!  So from initial impressions, I am simply impressed! Canon FTW!

[Ew]

A non controlled environment. I am coming from a Canon 60d and the noise is terrible above 800 without a speedlite and even then way to noisy. I would hope such a leap to FF and better technology would yield much better results just unsure if the d800 is the way to go or the canon 5d3. So far I have not seen the tremendous noise free 25k iso images in reviews actually I think it drops off at 6400 and continues from there. That's not much of an increase considering they are talking native 25k iso. So I was wondering if nikon was doing the reverse and saying 6400 with a true ceiling of 12800 or at least some very detailed images below 800. I do shoot in all kinds of light so that is why iso is so important. I also need a larger DOF since usually there are more than one person in my shots.

Comparing the 60D to the 5D is like comparing night and day. If the performance jump in all areas is tremendous. hence the reason for you spending $2400 more lol  . A 60D is still however more than capable for attaining nice shots if you use a speedlite to compensate for not boosting higher ISO. The better ISO performance of the 5D will only make your job easier in one aspect by giving you more freedom to boost ISO and achieve faster shutter speeds at smaller apertures (thus giving you a deeper DOF or more in focus). In any case, it's still best to use flash if you are able to (i.e. not in a venue where flash is forbidden).

I want a deeper dof than my 60d can offer bringing multiple people in focus and be able to shoot with a faster shutter speed. For example i took a shot tonight indoors with poor lighting of the kids playing on the floor and my speedlite was not handy so i had to shoot 1/15 f4 iso3200 to get them and boy was it noisy you would have thought it was 12,800 and with such a slow speed they hands were blurred from motion. I want to be able to get those shots. So assuming i was using the 5d3 there i would hope to have shot it at 1/60 at least. With an increase in iso of course. I used the 17-55 efs. Yeah i could have used a lower fstop like 2.8 but then it would have been harder to get them in focus as they were not on the same focal distance. Any suggestions as to which camera is right is greatly appreciated.

FPS is definitely key when shooting kids going bonkers inside w/ poor lighting.  This is why I went for the 7D vs the mk2. 7D w/ 28 1.8 @ 2.8, 1600 iOS has been the work horse. Looking forward to 5d3 for more ISP and cleaner images.

If you have lots of unpredictable movement in frame, the 5d3 will give you better odds than the d800.