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Author Topic: 5D Mark III vs. D800... what comparisons do you want to see?  (Read 21108 times)

Bruce Photography

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Re: 5D Mark III vs. D800... what comparisons do you want to see?
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2012, 03:39:58 AM »
I'm a landscape guy so I'd like to see both cameras using the Nikon 14-24mm lens on a wide shot of a subject landscape that has alot of fine detail in good light shot at iso 100.  Perhaps a coastline bay with a foreground of wildflowers.  Using the same aperature (say F8),  from the same tripod and ballhead in the same position.  I'd like to get both raw files so I can process them in a nominal manner and then print them on a 2x3 foot sheet using the same paper.  I'd like to compare edge sharpness, corners, mids, and center.  I use the Novovlex to do this on my Canon equipment so only one lens can do both cameras so we don't introduce the difference in lenses.  If you have a sharper Nikon mount lens then that would be ok.  I don't think you can use a Canon lens because no one makes a Canon lens to fit a Nikon camera.  If you know of one, please let me know.  I'm waiting for my D800e to come in but according to B&H I may have to wait for a couple of months.

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Re: 5D Mark III vs. D800... what comparisons do you want to see?
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2012, 03:39:58 AM »

marekjoz

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Re: 5D Mark III vs. D800... what comparisons do you want to see?
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2012, 03:56:28 AM »
just to compare the bodys only , i would use some manual lens with Nikon adapter on both cameras , focusing manually..like samyang 14mm or some zeiss lenses
Exactly what I was about to write - use comparable or the same lenses on both cameras. Not only one if you can, although comparisons made with the use of best on shelf from both and average set would give us a point - most probably you will get most of: ....
The other thing is value/price index with body and lenses combined.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 03:58:55 AM by marekjoz »
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seekn

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Re: 5D Mark III vs. D800... what comparisons do you want to see?
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2012, 04:56:27 AM »
When you're done pixel peeping take the cameras out in the real world and see which one is more fun to use.... Seriously.

Both camera should be "fun" for amateurs, as they are both excellent for any, especially amateur, use. However, pros will require their TOOLS to deliver and the value to be there, beside the usual fun of taking pictures.

So, DR, detail, ISO, AF, ergonomics, fps, etc are very important.
Yes, but seriously what is this going to tell us that we don't already know?  And why are we comparing two different beasts in the first place?  One obviously is built as an all arounder for wedding photographers/journalists/ etc... and the other is built for resolution and fine detail (landscapes and studios).  You cant just say the D800 is better because it takes better resolution pictures - how much set up and how much missed shots were there before you got that one perfect one?  Whereas the mark iii obviously has a higher chance of capturing something in low light on the fly with its higher iso and greater fps. 
Each camera has their own strengths and their own uses - so why make yourself feel better about the one you purchased?  Just use the own you think is best suited to YOUR own needs.  Truthfully, if you haven't figured that out by now after all these weeks of info, jpegs, raws etc.... then you probably never will.  I am all for testing but I'm  really getting sick of this Canon vs Nikon threads.  Both cameras are great ok - just use the one that best suits you.

Chewy734

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Re: 5D Mark III vs. D800... what comparisons do you want to see?
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2012, 08:34:56 AM »
We have already jumped ship to Nikon (still awaiting shipment), but would be interesting to see RAW DR-ISO-Detail comparison of a colorful and contrasty scene. Basically, process the best you can with the RAWs and compare how they fare against each other in multiple settings combinations.

My initial hunch is that 5d3 will be killed in DR and detail, but will triumph D800 in noise performance by a long shot.

We'll be doing that test.  The only main issue I have is how to process these RAW images?  LR4, etc cannot natively read in the CR2 files.  Currently, I'm using the Adobe DNG Converter to bring them into LR4.  Should I process both the CR2 and NEF files the same way?

Check the focus accuracy on both bodies when close and far from subject under daylight and tungsten, to see if any micro adjustment is necessary.  There have been a few reports that the 5dmk3 needs a bit of adjusting with most lenses to get really sharp shots.

I've read that too.  I'm leaving the 5D Mark III as-is without any micro-adjustment in our tests.  If the images prove to not be as sharp as the Mark II, then I'll look into doing the micro-adjustments later on for future testing.

When you're done pixel peeping take the cameras out in the real world and see which one is more fun to use.... Seriously.

That's the plan.  Honestly, neither one of us are pixel peepers, and I don't have endless free time to stare at images at 100% crop.  I feel like there are more professional sites/groups out there that have a larger budget than us to cover some of the DR, sharpness, and other pixel-peeping related questions.  I plan on doing some real-world testing:  how easy are the menu systems?  How easy is it to shoot in the new HDR mode on the Mark III?  How are the ergonomics?

Both camera should be "fun" for amateurs, as they are both excellent for any, especially amateur, use. However, pros will require their TOOLS to deliver and the value to be there, beside the usual fun of taking pictures.

So, DR, detail, ISO, AF, ergonomics, fps, etc are very important.

I wouldn't consider myself a professional photographer, since I don't actively make money on any of my shots.  That being said, just because you make money on your photographs doesn't mean you know your stuff.  For example, there was a "pro photographer" at a birthday party I went to this past weekend.  He was borrowing my 5D Mark II for a few shots.  At one point, he was wondering why the T3i kit lens wasn't able to fit on the Mark II.  I basically smirked and quickly snatched my camera away from him. :)

I won't lie, seeing them side by side, the 5d3 looks sexier, the d800 looks rugged. Focus accuracy, ISO tests both scaled up to the d800 resolution using the best methods possible, and tests of them down to the 5d3 resolution for arguments sake. No one is questioning dr and those who are have an agenda one way or another. Color accuracy compared to a digitalized Macbeth color checker chart so there is a base to go off of instead of assumption. Other than that handling quirks and general usability. You got a split second shoot, which is easiest and more natural to pick up and start shooting.

Looks can be deceiving.  Mike and I both agreed that the 5D Mark III felt noticeably better in the hands and actually more rugged.  Today I'll be writing a detailed initial review with the unboxing of both camera bodies, and what our impressions were before even taking a single shot from either.

I don't feel like spending money on a color chart at the moment to compare these two, unless you can convince me otherwise.  I'm sure dpreview and other sites will be covering those usual techniques of comparison.  I like the last question you posed, however.  And, that's something we'll definitely investigate.

I'd like to see how the D800 files look when shot at ISO 25400 and underexposed by one stop and two stops, then pushed in post to the equivalent of ISO 50k and ISO 100k. Compare them to the Mk III at H1 and H2.

Make sure to shoot the examples in real world low low light conditions.

Test to see how little light the AF will work in. I've found the Mk III will focus in just about any light that will produce a hand-holdable shutter speed, at least at ISO 25400.

That's an interesting test.  We'll try to take a look at it over the next 3 weeks.  We'll definitely be taking both cameras out into the wild extensively to look at real-world shooting situations.  Both, in low light and plenty of light.  I'm interested to see how good the AF compares under extreme conditions on both cameras.

You know we want the usual, resolution, DR, but yes, also the ergonomics and the user interface.

I've been using Canon for ages, they just feel natural and work intuitively IMO.  I just got a little D5100 cuz it was easier to figure out than a D7000 for my first foray into their gear and still can provide excellent IQ.

I'd like to know how quickly you can reconfigure the D800 to optimize it for a rapidly changing scene.
E.g.  Can you quickly adjust the ISO, focus mode and AF point selection, shooting mode, aperture or shutter speed and then fire off a shot in a second or 2?

I can do that with the Canons I'm used to using, despite them trying to confuse me by rearranging the button layout on nearly every new body!  And I was able to do so quickly with my first Canon DLSR.

With the D5100 or worse yet, the D7000, I struggle to locate things I want to adjust quickly.  Icons and names of functions are sometimes not intuitive or downright different.  I know more practice with it will help but user interface has often befuddled me on Nikons.  Has the D800 improved in this regard?

Commenting on the ergonomics, user-interface, and usability are high priorities for us.  One quick note I'd like to make is that the 5D Mark III menu system is a lot more extensive in terms of the options available.  The question is, how easy is it to navigate through those menus and find what you're looking for?

Unfortunately, I'm at a little disadvantage when it comes to menu systems for the Canon.  My first dSLR was the 20D several years ago.  I recently upgraded to the 5D Mark II.  The menu system and ergonomics are quite different on the Mark III versus either of those other two.  I haven't had a chance to play with a 7D, so I'm not sure how similar it is to the 7D in terms of the viewfinder, layout of the menus, etc.  I feel like I may have to do some background research before I can give you a good opinion on those types of things.

Low light studio samples from both cameras at 1600 ISO and up.  Side by side shots to determine noise.

We'll look at that by shooting real-world items, as opposed to various screens, etc that sites like dpreview uses.  Sadly the RAW converters for both cameras aren't ideal at the moment, so if you have any suggestions, let me know.

and HDR , multiple exposure comparison from both cameras

Yeah, I'm interested in testing that new feature with built-in HDR on the Mark III.  Sadly, the D800 doesn't do that in-camera.  However, perhaps we can do multiple exposures using the same settings on both cameras, and process them exactly the same way in Photomatix Pro to see some differences.

1. Shoot some side-by-side, low light, indoor portrait (or some complex subject). For both cameras, use the same exposure time (1/200...1/50), F-number (F2...F4) and amount of light. Only vary the ISO if the sensitivity is different, in order to get photos of the same relative brightness on the display.

DO NOT vary the amount of light that reaches the sensor, or the comparison is useless! The ISO doesn't vary the amount of light that reaches the sensor.

By low light I mean that in the context of these settings, the ISO should be 6400...25600 (okay, 3200 is acceptable at around 1/50 and F2...F2.8 ). If possible, use RAWs, do not use noise reduction of any kind and convert to JPEG without post-processing.

2. Check the ability of the cameras to (consistently and *properly*) expose back-lit (preferably indoors), half-body portraits, where you use the center AF point, focus on the face and then recompose (to check that it does exposure lock; it should, but...). You might also want to test with the auto-lighting-optimizer activated (for Canon).

3. Some low light shot(s) and then apply a bunch of fill light (/ shadows) to see what dark details can be recovered.

Hey, you've asked, so... thank you anyway :)

Thank you for the good suggestions!  We'll have to try that out sometime over the next 3 weeks.  FYI, the reason I keep saying 3 weeks is because my Nikon friend will be leaving for a month long vacation in 3 weeks. :)

just to compare the bodys only , i would use some manual lens with Nikon adapter on both cameras , focusing manually..like samyang 14mm or some zeiss lenses

Unfortunately, neither of us have 3rd-party lenses with appropriate adaptors.  Perhaps we could rent them from our local professional camera store, but neither of us have the funds to do so.  You're welcome to donate some money for the cause though and we would be happy to do that comparison. ;)

I'm a landscape guy so I'd like to see both cameras using the Nikon 14-24mm lens on a wide shot of a subject landscape that has alot of fine detail in good light shot at iso 100.  Perhaps a coastline bay with a foreground of wildflowers.  Using the same aperature (say F8),  from the same tripod and ballhead in the same position.  I'd like to get both raw files so I can process them in a nominal manner and then print them on a 2x3 foot sheet using the same paper.  I'd like to compare edge sharpness, corners, mids, and center.  I use the Novovlex to do this on my Canon equipment so only one lens can do both cameras so we don't introduce the difference in lenses.  If you have a sharper Nikon mount lens then that would be ok.  I don't think you can use a Canon lens because no one makes a Canon lens to fit a Nikon camera.  If you know of one, please let me know.  I'm waiting for my D800e to come in but according to B&H I may have to wait for a couple of months.

Not a problem Bruce.  I'd be happy to do that comparison for you.  We can shoot by the lake one of these days.  Since we've had some milder temperatures lately, some of the flowers have already started blooming.  We'll be happy to provide everyone with the RAW images, so they can do their own post-processing using whatever converters and software they want to use on those images.  I feel for you though.  It's tough to be patient when getting new technology.  We were fortunate enough to receive our camera bodies so soon after release.

Yes, but seriously what is this going to tell us that we don't already know?  And why are we comparing two different beasts in the first place?  One obviously is built as an all arounder for wedding photographers/journalists/ etc... and the other is built for resolution and fine detail (landscapes and studios).  You cant just say the D800 is better because it takes better resolution pictures - how much set up and how much missed shots were there before you got that one perfect one?  Whereas the mark iii obviously has a higher chance of capturing something in low light on the fly with its higher iso and greater fps. 
Each camera has their own strengths and their own uses - so why make yourself feel better about the one you purchased?  Just use the own you think is best suited to YOUR own needs.  Truthfully, if you haven't figured that out by now after all these weeks of info, jpegs, raws etc.... then you probably never will.  I am all for testing but I'm  really getting sick of this Canon vs Nikon threads.  Both cameras are great ok - just use the one that best suits you.

I agree with you.  I feel like both cameras fill two distinct niches.  However, given what both Canon and Nikon have so far released, it seems natural to compare these two bodies.  Honestly, I feel like the Mark III is a successor to the Mark II, but the D800 is an altogether different camera than the D700.  Based on their specifications alone, it seems like one is better than the other for specific types of photography, why can't we still compare them?  We hope more reviews can help people make informed decisions about their purchase.


Finally, as an FYI, I've been a Canon shooter since the AE-1, and Mike's been a Nikon shooter since he started over a decade ago.  I know our reviews may be biased towards the respective brands we prefer and shoot with on a regular basis, but we'll do our best to be objective.  He hasn't really shot with a Canon before, and I haven't with a Nikon.  So, it should be interesting to see what we have to say when we switch camera bodies.

Thanks for your input everyone, and keep them coming, I really appreciate it.  I'll try to get the website and the initial review written by tomorrow, so we can expand our lively discussions.  So, stay tuned!


marekjoz

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Stephen Melvin

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Re: 5D Mark III vs. D800... what comparisons do you want to see?
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2012, 03:33:24 PM »
Nikon wins for better packaging.
Canon wins for better grip.

Nice. ;)

I do really like the way the Mk III feels in the hand. It's wonderful.

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Re: 5D Mark III vs. D800... what comparisons do you want to see?
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2012, 03:33:24 PM »

V8Beast

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Re: 5D Mark III vs. D800... what comparisons do you want to see?
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2012, 04:06:21 PM »
Go to a club with the 5DIII one night, and a D800 another night, and see which one gets you more women. Be sure to take lots of sample images.

briansquibb

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Re: 5D Mark III vs. D800... what comparisons do you want to see?
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2012, 04:13:37 PM »
Go to a club with the 5DIII one night, and a D800 another night, and see which one gets you more women. Be sure to take lots of sample images.

Are you related to wickidWombat  ;) ;) ;)

V8Beast

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Re: 5D Mark III vs. D800... what comparisons do you want to see?
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2012, 07:13:43 PM »
Go to a club with the 5DIII one night, and a D800 another night, and see which one gets you more women. Be sure to take lots of sample images.

Are you related to wickidWombat  ;) ;) ;)

Why yes, I do believe my ancestors inter-bred with wombats some time ago. This would explain why the ladies think I'm so cute and cuddly.

As for CR board member wickidwombay, I presume he might take offense to the notion that he might be related to a hack like me :)

Chewy734

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Re: 5D Mark III vs. D800... what comparisons do you want to see?
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2012, 07:23:29 PM »
Thanks! Keep it rolling :)

Thanks!  We will try to post something new every day or two, comparing these cameras to a predecessor, or pitted against each other.

Nikon wins for better packaging.
Canon wins for better grip.

Nice. ;)

I do really like the way the Mk III feels in the hand. It's wonderful.

Hehe, yup! Now, the real question is which produces the better photos and under what conditions. We'll try not to forget video either. ;)

Go to a club with the 5DIII one night, and a D800 another night, and see which one gets you more women. Be sure to take lots of sample images.

I like the way you think. :D

wickidwombat

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Re: 5D Mark III vs. D800... what comparisons do you want to see?
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2012, 07:26:12 PM »
Go to a club with the 5DIII one night, and a D800 another night, and see which one gets you more women. Be sure to take lots of sample images.

Are you related to wickidWombat  ;) ;) ;)

Why yes, I do believe my ancestors inter-bred with wombats some time ago. This would explain why the ladies think I'm so cute and cuddly.

As for CR board member wickidwombay, I presume he might take offense to the notion that he might be related to a hack like me :)
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Kmtn

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Re: 5D Mark III vs. D800... what comparisons do you want to see?
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2012, 08:20:16 PM »
Your results will include a lot of good info already, but here's a different perspective and some things I'm curious about.

I have never owned a digital SLR camera.  For the past 22 years I've carried a Pentax 645 film camera and 4 lenses through remote mountains and gotten some pretty satisfying landscape shots.  All of these trips entail carrying from 3 to 16 days of food and equipment on my back, in addition to my camera gear, tripod, etc.  I'm at the point now where I'm going to go digital and I've been waiting for the new generation of Canon and Nikon cameras.  The camera I buy will require me to buy lenses, etc. as well, so this is kind of a fork in the road for me.  My goal is not only to gain the convenience and advances of new technology, but also to lighten my load, as I'm getting older and that is something I need to do.

Okay, so my perspective is that of all the Canon bodies currently available, the 5DM3 is the best suited to my landscape photography.  Likewise, of all the Nikon bodies currently available, the D800 is the best.  I'm very aware that these two bodies likely have different strengths, but they are the best their two companies have to offer for landscape photography, so I'm considering each of them.

Because of my goal to shed weight, I'm interested only in zoom lenses.  Ideally, I would carry only two, a wide to mid-range zoom and a mid to telephoto zoom.  Together they'd cover 24 -200 or 24-300.  Therefore, I'm really only interested in how each body works with the lenses I'd use them with.  So for instance, I want to see the 5DM3 using the Canon 24-70 lens for example compared against the D800 using the similar Nikon lens, because these are in fact what my purchase options would be.

Because of the type of photography I do, I always use a tripod.  Therefore high ISO has less relevance for me.  I've been shooting at ISO 50 or less for 30 years.  I'm sure that I will be delighted with the available performance at higher ISO's, but my concern is more about what ISO produces the best IQ with each camera.  Is it ISO 100, ISO 200, higher?  I'm only interested in shooting at the ISO that produces optimal IQ with static, non-moving objects.  Shoot each camera at its own optimal ISO for IQ.

Regarding resolution, here is my test.  I know people argue about the right and wrong way to do this, but this is my way.  Take identical shots on each camera system, take the D800 file and interpolate it down to the 5DM3 pixel dimensions, then compare.  Now do just the reverse with the same image.  Take the 5DM3 file and interpolate it up to the D800's pixel dimensions, then compare.  In both cases you are creating new pixels in the interpolation step, but this is what you'd have to do in the real world to print one at the other's native pixel resolution.

I'm sorry to write such a long post, and I thank you for reading this.  I thought a different perspective might be helpful.  Thanks for your efforts.







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Re: 5D Mark III vs. D800... what comparisons do you want to see?
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2012, 08:20:16 PM »


TrumpetPower!

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Re: 5D Mark III vs. D800... what comparisons do you want to see?
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2012, 10:08:32 PM »
Here's a couple...somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but I hope all y'all get the point.

Compare them both with the latest-and-greatest 400 f/2.8 from the respective vendor. Which setup can actually be shot handheld, and which one makes the monopod put the biggest dent down your shoulder and into your pecs as you walk around?

And also compare how each does with a wide or ultra-wide lens with movements...say, in 24mm or 17mm. What range of movements are available, and what's the image quality like?

Cheers,

b&

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Re: 5D Mark III vs. D800... what comparisons do you want to see?
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2012, 10:08:32 PM »