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1Ds3 Changes on Canon USA Website
« on: January 15, 2011, 01:54:15 PM »
1Ds Mark III on Canon USA The 1Ds Mark III has disappeared from the Canon USA eStore. It doesn’t necessarily mean anything, as they dont always sell all products there.

The 1Ds Mark III is listed as “not available“ on the Canon USA site as well as NL found out.

CRs Take I havent received any new information about a 1Ds3 replacement sooner rather than later. What I have heard more often lately is a new 1D camera. I wouldn’t read too much into the above yet.

cr

« Last Edit: January 15, 2011, 02:33:11 PM by Canon Rumors »
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1Ds3 Changes on Canon USA Website
« on: January 15, 2011, 01:54:15 PM »

x-vision

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Re: 1Ds3 Changes on Canon USA Website
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2011, 04:16:49 PM »
Hehehe. The 1DV is coming.

Unexpected splash announcement as early as February ? ? ?   ;D

spam

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Re: 1Ds3 Changes on Canon USA Website
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2011, 04:27:50 PM »
I wouldn’t read too much into the above yet

The 1Ds really need a refresh, but it's more likely an error by some Canon employee using the weekend for website updates.

Bob Howland

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Re: 1Ds3 Changes on Canon USA Website
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2011, 04:50:07 PM »
Hehehe. The 1DV is coming.

Unexpected splash announcement as early as February ? ? ?   ;D

What if it isn't called a 1DMk5? My guess/wish is two FF bodies using a common small professional body, a new model to compete with the D3s and having 14-16MP at 8-10FPS (I'll take two!!) and the other, a 5DMk3, with 25-30MP at 4-6FPS. Prices: $3000 to $4000 each. However, they don't have to be introduced simultaneously. The new model could be introduced in next couple months and the 5DmK3 introduced in the Fall together with the 1DMk5 - the "Camera to Rule Them All". If both FF bodies are introduced this Spring, the 1D could be introduced with the 7DMk2, maybe using a derivative of the 1DMk4 sensor (i.e., bumped up to APS-H) and a variant of the same new body. Or maybe the 7DMk2 would be introduced next spring.

That scenario fits a lot of the previous rumors that have appeared here.

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Re: 1Ds3 Changes on Canon USA Website
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2011, 07:30:24 PM »
I think the 1DV name will be highly symbolic.

The film EOS-1V is a very highly regarded model (the best camera Canon ever made ?), so the 1DV is a golden opportunity for Canon to launch a cheesy ‘back to the future’ marketing campaign ;) ;).   

logaandm

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Re: 1Ds3 Changes on Canon USA Website
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2011, 09:41:45 PM »
I have followed Canon closely since I bought my 5D four years ago. I have seen the 5D claimed to be the best camera ever made, I bought the Mark II even with the "spots" and the claims that the D700 had much lower noise. Since that time I have learned much about cameras and imaging. I see two factors which Canon must surely be aware of:

1. AF has been an issue for Canon since before the 5D. The introduction of the D300 (which I owned) and it's AF which had all the same features as my old Canon EOS 3 film camera highlighted the deficiencies of the 5D and lower end AF systems. The 9 point system might be adequate to APS-C size sensors but it really doesn't work well for the larger sensor. The fiasco, real or imagined with the AF for the 1D IV has pushed the point home. Canon is clearly responding as demonstrated in the much better AF in the 7D.

In comparing to Nikon, many of the complains are debateable. Differnet processing techniques are mostly responsible for any percieved issues with noise. Nikons, except for the D3x are show uniformly less detail than even the old 12 megapixel 5D. These are choices each company has made in their approaches to making images. My observation is that on the whole the general opionion (not surprisingly) is that Nikons have less noise and Canons have more detail and that the differences in both are for the most part of minor concern.

Poor AF, on the otherhand is not a minor concern. In my opinon it is something Canon must address in all their higher end cameras. Their main user base is happy with the lens lineup, they are happy with the resoluition and the noise - they are almost uniformly not happy with the AF.

2. 5DII displacing the 1Ds. May pro's use the 5DII instead of the 1Ds. Since the image quality is almost identical and video is not all that important, the reasons are fairly obvious. The cost and weight differences over come the poorer build quality of the lower end camera compared to the 1D range.

These two points, AF and 5DII being preferred to the 1DsIII are the two largest issues Canon must first address. Nikon and Sony also give some indication of where the technology must go. Most of the other complaints, ergonomics, noise, AA filters, build tend to be periferal both to the the photographic market and to the making of photographs. I don't believe they are really the drivers.

My predition is the next FF camera will have:

AF system simlar or better than the 7D, perhaps it will be adjusted to the larger sensor size since upscaling the AF has not proven to be a good engineering solution.

Size similar to or slighly larger than the 5DII. Weather sealing and build comparable to, or similar to the 1D serices.

Megapixes similar to the pixel density in the 7D which is well proven. (Around 28M in FF). Smaller pixesl start to compromise dynamic range and push diffraction limits.

Pixel binning to achieve noise and processed noise levels similar to the best Nikon cameras.

In my view these are the issues Canon must address in order to maintain it's market lead in the pro market. The AF in the 7D and the number of new high resolution lenses such as the new 70-200, 100L macro suggest to me Canon is not about to lose that market because they can't or won't make a camera that addresses them.

A FF camera a bit larger than the 7D, with the same pixel density as the 7D, properly upscaled AF system similar to the 7D, slightly better processing to optimize high ISO photography and a little bit better build would have them lining up for years.

Bob Howland

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Re: 1Ds3 Changes on Canon USA Website
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2011, 06:54:59 AM »
Megapixes similar to the pixel density in the 7D which is well proven. (Around 28M in FF). Smaller pixesl start to compromise dynamic range and push diffraction limits.

It's 46MP (i.e., 1.6 *1.6 *18MP), not 28MP.

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Re: 1Ds3 Changes on Canon USA Website
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2011, 06:54:59 AM »

EELinneman

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Re: 1Ds3 Changes on Canon USA Website
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2011, 07:49:40 AM »
With 28 MP or more, it's clear that it's going to require a new processing chip to clear the sensor quickly enough to support any reasonable rate, i.e. 5 in the 5D III and higher 8 or 9 in a FF sports shooter.  Any word on the DigicV yet?

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Re: 1Ds3 Changes on Canon USA Website
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2011, 08:23:02 AM »
The 5D and 5DII don't do 5fps so I can't see why anybody would expect the 5DIII to do so?
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Re: 1Ds3 Changes on Canon USA Website
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2011, 06:56:45 PM »
At this point it's clear we're getting all kinds of contradictory information. Therefore I think it's all fair game. Anything could happen and probably will. However I don't expect canon to innovate: only iterate.


Justin

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Re: 1Ds3 Changes on Canon USA Website
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2011, 07:07:16 PM »
Canon AF needs help. I agree with this. What Canon really needs is something new, something that will take still photos to another level with dynamic range, detail, speed, noise characteristics and yes, auto focus performance for a dslr. Canon is getting major pressure from both sides of the Digital camera range: medium format with the new 645 pentax system and micro four thirds with panasonic and Olympus and soon. Nikon is getting closer to a mirrorless system. I got to say I'm very interested in the pentax and mirrorless systems. i still trust my 5d2 and canon lens system. but it doesn't do everything i want it to do. Its not fast for starters. Low iso banding is troubling. I want a smaller lighter system for travel, and a richer, improved IQ system that can help me in my pursuit of eventually making fine art.

I have followed Canon closely since I bought my 5D four years ago. I have seen the 5D claimed to be the best camera ever made, I bought the Mark II even with the "spots" and the claims that the D700 had much lower noise. Since that time I have learned much about cameras and imaging. I see two factors which Canon must surely be aware of:

1. AF has been an issue for Canon since before the 5D. The introduction of the D300 (which I owned) and it's AF which had all the same features as my old Canon EOS 3 film camera highlighted the deficiencies of the 5D and lower end AF systems. The 9 point system might be adequate to APS-C size sensors but it really doesn't work well for the larger sensor. The fiasco, real or imagined with the AF for the 1D IV has pushed the point home. Canon is clearly responding as demonstrated in the much better AF in the 7D.

In comparing to Nikon, many of the complains are debateable. Differnet processing techniques are mostly responsible for any percieved issues with noise. Nikons, except for the D3x are show uniformly less detail than even the old 12 megapixel 5D. These are choices each company has made in their approaches to making images. My observation is that on the whole the general opionion (not surprisingly) is that Nikons have less noise and Canons have more detail and that the differences in both are for the most part of minor concern.

Poor AF, on the otherhand is not a minor concern. In my opinon it is something Canon must address in all their higher end cameras. Their main user base is happy with the lens lineup, they are happy with the resoluition and the noise - they are almost uniformly not happy with the AF.

2. 5DII displacing the 1Ds. May pro's use the 5DII instead of the 1Ds. Since the image quality is almost identical and video is not all that important, the reasons are fairly obvious. The cost and weight differences over come the poorer build quality of the lower end camera compared to the 1D range.

These two points, AF and 5DII being preferred to the 1DsIII are the two largest issues Canon must first address. Nikon and Sony also give some indication of where the technology must go. Most of the other complaints, ergonomics, noise, AA filters, build tend to be periferal both to the the photographic market and to the making of photographs. I don't believe they are really the drivers.

My predition is the next FF camera will have:

AF system simlar or better than the 7D, perhaps it will be adjusted to the larger sensor size since upscaling the AF has not proven to be a good engineering solution.

Size similar to or slighly larger than the 5DII. Weather sealing and build comparable to, or similar to the 1D serices.

Megapixes similar to the pixel density in the 7D which is well proven. (Around 28M in FF). Smaller pixesl start to compromise dynamic range and push diffraction limits.

Pixel binning to achieve noise and processed noise levels similar to the best Nikon cameras.

In my view these are the issues Canon must address in order to maintain it's market lead in the pro market. The AF in the 7D and the number of new high resolution lenses such as the new 70-200, 100L macro suggest to me Canon is not about to lose that market because they can't or won't make a camera that addresses them.

A FF camera a bit larger than the 7D, with the same pixel density as the 7D, properly upscaled AF system similar to the 7D, slightly better processing to optimize high ISO photography and a little bit better build would have them lining up for years.

UngerPhotography

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Re: 1Ds3 Changes on Canon USA Website
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2011, 09:38:17 PM »
At this point it's clear we're getting all kinds of contradictory information. Therefore I think it's all fair game. Anything could happen and probably will. However I don't expect canon to innovate: only iterate.

Exactly. Nothing is final or official here. Canon is not going to put out a garbage camera. It may not have exactly what some people are looking for, but that does not make it a bad camera. Try to remember that companies leap frog each other and that each new camera isn't always meant to be the next replacement for people who bought the previous camera. (Note: May not be as big of an advancement to make people buy up from the previous version). Granted it has been a while since the 1Ds MkIII, but I imagine this camera will be a step up from the 1Ds MkIII.

Canon AF needs help. I agree with this. What Canon really needs is something new, something that will take still photos to another level with dynamic range, detail, speed, noise characteristics and yes, auto focus performance for a dslr. Canon is getting major pressure from both sides of the Digital camera range: medium format with the new 645 pentax system and micro four thirds with panasonic and Olympus and soon. Nikon is getting closer to a mirrorless system. I got to say I'm very interested in the pentax and mirrorless systems. i still trust my 5d2 and canon lens system. but it doesn't do everything i want it to do. Its not fast for starters. Low iso banding is troubling. I want a smaller lighter system for travel, and a richer, improved IQ system that can help me in my pursuit of eventually making fine art.

I am not sure what problem people are having with Canon AF. My 5D has never failed my expectations. Are people trying to use all the AF points, or using a single AF point? And as for a smaller and lighter camera, maybe you should go with a Rebel. The current size of the 1D series and 5D with battery grip couldn't be better. The size, shape and weight give it a solid and sturdy feel, and anything less would make me feel like I was using a toy.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 09:40:36 PM by UngerPhotography »

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Re: 1Ds3 Changes on Canon USA Website
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2011, 02:43:20 PM »

I am not sure what problem people are having with Canon AF. My 5D has never failed my expectations. Are people trying to use all the AF points, or using a single AF point?

A single off center point. The center one is fine, but leads to bad framing or broken by design metering, timing issues and the plane of focus topics.

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Re: 1Ds3 Changes on Canon USA Website
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2011, 02:43:20 PM »

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Re: 1Ds3 Changes on Canon USA Website
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2011, 03:43:12 PM »

A single off center point. The center one is fine, but leads to bad framing or broken by design metering, timing issues and the plane of focus topics.

Mine is great.  I have a 1D MK III for birding and sports.  Some people want the camera to do something other than what it was intended for, and complain when it doesn't.

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Re: 1Ds3 Changes on Canon USA Website
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2011, 11:15:54 AM »
Not sure what you are shooting, but if it isn't fast action, you can always focus and recompose.

Sure you can, if you've got plenty of depth of field to play with.  If you put a fast prime like the 85L on the 5DII, shoot wide open, and use the center AF point for focus/recompose, it works fine as long as you make sure that every subject you shoot is concave with a radius that matches the arc along which you recompose.  Algebraic translation for the less geometrically-inclined: fast lens + focus/recompose = out-of-focus subject.
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Re: 1Ds3 Changes on Canon USA Website
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2011, 11:15:54 AM »