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Author Topic: Canon smarter than we think  (Read 14540 times)

unfocused

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Canon smarter than we think
« on: March 29, 2012, 11:07:06 AM »
As the new 5DIII starts to appear in the real world I think I'm starting to get a better feel for Canon's strategy and, I must say, it seems pretty brilliant.

When Canon announced the 5DIII they placed a lot of emphasis in their announcement on the camera being the result of feedback from professional photographers. But, of course, "professional" is a very broad term that can cover a lot of very disparate specialties.

Now that we are seeing some examples of what the camera can do, it seems like they focused on one particular, but very large segment of the professional market – wedding and special event photographers.

Early examples seem to show a camera that performs very, very well at higher ISOs. Not necessarily in the stratosphere, but rather significant improvements in the 1600 to 6400 range. A range that I suspect many wedding photographers find themselves needing. The autofocus improvements, of course, benefit everyone, but event and wedding photographers don't get the chance to refocus their shots, so improved autofocus would certainly be beneficial.

At the same time, the camera is very well-equipped for ordinary studio work under controlled lighting situations. So, no compromises for studio work but more flexibility in the field. Not to mention some improvements in video for those who need to use it for that purpose as well.

Now, of course, the camera is great for other purposes as well, but it does seem to have some significant improvements that will benefit a large and very competitive segment of the professional photography market.

In short, what I am saying is that it seems as though Canon really did study their market closely and may have produced a camera that is intended to sell, rather than a camera that is intended to be popular on forum and testing sites.
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Canon smarter than we think
« on: March 29, 2012, 11:07:06 AM »

ramon123

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Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2012, 11:59:00 AM »
+1 well said

BobSanderson

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Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2012, 12:02:15 PM »
good points

x-vision

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Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2012, 12:18:48 PM »
Hmm. While Canon did listen to users and did incorporate user feedback into the 5DIII, their strategy is not brilliant.
In fact, just the opposite.

Raising prices in the face of ever increasing completion is ... well, just dumb.

With mirrorless cameras increasing their share in the lower end of the market, the smart strategy for Canon (and Nikon) would be to move as many users as possible upmarket, where FF has a unique size advantage.

The 5DIII should have been announced at $2600 - a symbolic lowering of the price (compared to the 5DII), designed to make a switch to FF more attractive.

Instead, Canon raised the 5DIII price by 30%, effectively repositioning the 5DIII as a camera strictly for pros.

The problem is, pros have never been the core market of the 5D series.

In case there are doubts about Canon’s "brilliant" pricing strategy, just consider that the 5DII could not be found in stock for more than a year after it went on sale. In contrast, just a week after the 5DIII’s general availability, it is now in stock in many retailers:
http://instock.1001noisycameras.com/canon-5d-mark-iii-pre-orders/

It is very safe to say that just a week after general availability, supply is already outstripping demand for this camera.
Good luck to Canon as even more 5DIII’s are on their way to the stores.

CatfishSoupFTW

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Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2012, 12:23:42 PM »
I do agree with you. The 5D always seems to show up quite a bit in the wedding world, and for them to target it seems about right. I do agree with all your other points, about the AF, the specific ISO fix.

its still a wonderful camera, and it would be a wonderful one to own :D though i am sure they also made it amazing enough to work with all other stuff, such as extreme sports.
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briansquibb

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Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2012, 12:30:08 PM »
Instead, Canon raised the 5DIII price by 30%, effectively repositioning the 5DIII as a camera strictly for pros.

Interesting thought that only pros would buy a 5DIII - I know 3 people with 5DIII and none of those are pros - so what is that presumption based on?

Are you assuming that only pros have sufficient money to purchase the not top of the range camera?

In view of the fact that there are a lot of better paid professions I think that is highly unlikely - 1 of my friends with a 5DIII is a pensioner!!

Marsu42

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Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2012, 12:31:59 PM »
In short, what I am saying is that it seems as though Canon really did study their market closely and may have produced a camera that is intended to sell, rather than a camera that is intended to be popular on forum and testing sites.
Of course the 5d3 will sell because people who got a 5d2 and expensive lenses but miss a better af cannot anywhere else (neither the "real pro" 1dx nor the aps-c 7d). And there are enough well-off amateurs that don't care about a couple of thousand bucks, so Canon could also sell a 5d3d (deluxe) with gold plated plastic and it would sell, too.

But is it enough to make people invest even more in the platform and Canon gear for the long term? Marketing might be about short term sales, but company strategy is for medium and long term shareholder value and roi, too. Canon might become the Kodak of the 21st century - legacy products that work just fine, but a lack of future outlook and technology edge.

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Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2012, 12:31:59 PM »

briansquibb

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Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2012, 12:38:49 PM »
Of course the 5d3 will sell because people who got a 5d2 and expensive lenses but miss a better af cannot anywhere else (neither the "real pro" 1dx nor the aps-c 7d).

Are you saying that the af of the 5DIII is better than that of the 1DX?

I had a moring using the 5DIII and it didn't seem any better or faster than my 1D4

TrumpetPower!

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Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2012, 12:45:57 PM »
It wasn't just wedding and event photographers Canon was paying attention to. At 6 FPS with the flagship AF system, the 5DIII is good enough for pro sports.

As good as the 1DX? No, of course not -- but it's better than lots of pro / top-of-the-line cameras (especially film) that have been used to shoot the Super Bowl and the World Series in the past. For that matter, save for the framerate (which falls into the "good enough" category), it's a better sports camera than any other camera Canon has made. And if the AF is as good as it looks to be, that alone may well make up for the slightly slower framerate over the pre-1DX cameras.

I'll bet lots of newsrooms will be picking the 5DIII over the 1DX for their reporters, especially in these economic times. Certainly, those that only buy new cameras when the old ones die will be going for the 5DIII. And the readers won't ever know the difference.

Cheers,

b&
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 01:10:35 PM by TrumpetPower! »

mistabernie

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Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2012, 01:00:36 PM »
Hmm. While Canon did listen to users and did incorporate user feedback into the 5DIII, their strategy is not brilliant.
In fact, just the opposite.

Raising prices in the face of ever increasing completion is ... well, just dumb.

With mirrorless cameras increasing their share in the lower end of the market, the smart strategy for Canon (and Nikon) would be to move as many users as possible upmarket, where FF has a unique size advantage.

The 5DIII should have been announced at $2600 - a symbolic lowering of the price (compared to the 5DII), designed to make a switch to FF more attractive.

Instead, Canon raised the 5DIII price by 30%, effectively repositioning the 5DIII as a camera strictly for pros.

The problem is, pros have never been the core market of the 5D series.

In case there are doubts about Canon’s "brilliant" pricing strategy, just consider that the 5DII could not be found in stock for more than a year after it went on sale. In contrast, just a week after the 5DIII’s general availability, it is now in stock in many retailers:
http://instock.1001noisycameras.com/canon-5d-mark-iii-pre-orders/

It is very safe to say that just a week after general availability, supply is already outstripping demand for this camera.
Good luck to Canon as even more 5DIII’s are on their way to the stores.

The 30% price boost is an inaccurate comparison.  This has been discussed previously (not quite sure if it was here or not) -- this price doesn't incorporate inflation over the last few years, nor does it incorporate the fluctuation of exchange rates.  The $3500 price point is pretty much in line with where the 5D2 was in 2008.

The aim of the 5D3 is the professional photographer; Canon has a 4k Cinema camera coming out imminently for film making and dedicated videographers, even though the 5D3 still produces quite high quality video.  For hobbyists and enthusiasts, the rumor mill is already kicking around rumors of an 'entry level' full frame camera that could be announced as soon as Photokina which will be what Canon uses to draw people from mirrorless cameras up to full frame. 

V8Beast

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Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2012, 01:34:33 PM »
Like many other, I also with the 5DIII were priced closer to $3,000 than $3,500, but at the end of the day, I was more than willing to cough up the extra dough for its substantial improvements in AF, FPS, and build quality.

That said, I don't think Canon has showed all its cards just yet. There's been talk of an entry-level FF body for quite some time, and if it turns out to be true, the 5DIII's price point makes more sense. The fate of the 7D line is unknown at this point, either, so if Canon does axe the 7D or merge it into the xxD line, then an entry-level FF body priced somewhere between the 7D and the 5DIII makes even more sense.

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Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2012, 01:36:24 PM »
@unfocused.  Interesting observation sir!  It also seem to align with the fact Canon seem to have decised to segment the market in several buckets and come out with a specific camera for each bucket.  This is why I beleive we are seeing more model coming soon like a video specific model to sit between the C300 and the 5DmkIII for example (The famous 4k model) or the fact they will likely have a high MP model at one point.

Nikon seem to have taken a different approach with two major pro camera for all the segment (D800 and D4) where Canon might have 4-5 models in total when we are all said and done.

Will be interesting to see this one pan out!
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awinphoto

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Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2012, 01:39:24 PM »
Of course the 5d3 will sell because people who got a 5d2 and expensive lenses but miss a better af cannot anywhere else (neither the "real pro" 1dx nor the aps-c 7d).

Are you saying that the af of the 5DIII is better than that of the 1DX?

I had a moring using the 5DIII and it didn't seem any better or faster than my 1D4

Both have the same AF module, but the 1dx has a better metering system that affects the AF performance.  So the 1dx has an edge... how much of an edge, we will have to find out.  But the 5d3, on paper, is supposed to be better than any previous canon camera. 
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, Canon 85 1.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

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Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2012, 01:39:24 PM »

dichiaras

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Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2012, 01:41:14 PM »
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 01:43:19 PM by dichiaras »

x-vision

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Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2012, 01:52:17 PM »
Interesting thought that only pros would buy a 5DIII - I know 3 people with 5DIII and none of those are pros - so what is that presumption based on?

Hehe. You seem to be missing my point ... while at the same time confirming it  ;D.

As I said in my post, pros have never been the core market of the 5D series.
The 3 non-pros you know that bought the 5DIII are just another confirmation of that.

The thing is, as the price increases, the ratio of pro vs non-pro buyers increases too.

Non-pro buyers will still account for a large part of the of 5DIII sales.
However, pro buyers will now constitute a larger percentage of the total 5DIII sales compared to the 5DII (well, until the price drops, of course).

From that perspective, Canon did reposition the 5DIII as more of a pro camera compared to the 5DII.

I guess the expression "strictly for pros" is incorrect, though. I stand corrected.
There will be hobbyists buying the $6.8K 1DX camera and $14K 800/5.6L lens.
So, technically, non of these products is "strictly for pros". Same for the 5DIII.
My bad for hurting the feelings of non-pros with $3.5K of disposable income  ;D ;D.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 01:55:04 PM by x-vision »

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Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2012, 01:52:17 PM »