November 27, 2014, 10:39:59 PM

Author Topic: Canon smarter than we think  (Read 14575 times)

briansquibb

  • Guest
Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2012, 03:02:26 PM »

My bad for hurting the feelings of non-pros with $3.5K of disposable income  ;D ;D.

You are forgiven  8) 8) 8)

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2012, 03:02:26 PM »

XanuFoto

  • Guest
Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2012, 03:22:41 PM »
Interesting that the ones who can't afford the camera seem to be the ones who have the strongest business advice for Canon.

There's a difference between "affording" and "overpaying".
Smart buyers hate overpaying ;D.
Its overpaying when a comparable camera is available for less.

briansquibb

  • Guest
Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2012, 03:25:15 PM »
Interesting that the ones who can't afford the camera seem to be the ones who have the strongest business advice for Canon.

There's a difference between "affording" and "overpaying".
Smart buyers hate overpaying ;D.
Its overpaying when a comparable camera is available for less.

I uess it is hard to detirmine whether one camera is comparable with other - certainly this would be difficult with a D800 and a 5DIII as they are very different

x-vision

  • Canon 7D MK II
  • *****
  • Posts: 479
    • View Profile
Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2012, 03:46:37 PM »
There's a difference between "affording" and "overpaying".
Smart buyers hate overpaying ;D.
Its overpaying when a comparable camera is available for less.

It's overpaying when perceived value does not match the price tag.

awinphoto

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2010
    • View Profile
    • AW Photography
Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2012, 03:49:52 PM »
There's a difference between "affording" and "overpaying".
Smart buyers hate overpaying ;D.
Its overpaying when a comparable camera is available for less.

It's overpaying when perceived value does not match the price tag.

Sooo... one of the top AF systems out in the market, period, the highest ISO range in it's class and one of the top out in the market, period, 100 VF, weathersealing, 2 memory cards, better preformance, better metering system, more controls, better shooting systems... yeah your right... $3500 isn't a fair perceived value...
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, Canon 85 1.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

nehemiah

  • Power Shot G7X
  • **
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2012, 03:50:20 PM »
Interesting thought that only pros would buy a 5DIII - I know 3 people with 5DIII and none of those are pros - so what is that presumption based on?

Hehe. You seem to be missing my point ... while at the same time confirming it  ;D.

As I said in my post, pros have never been the core market of the 5D series.
The 3 non-pros you know that bought the 5DIII are just another confirmation of that.

The thing is, as the price increases, the ratio of pro vs non-pro buyers increases too.

Non-pro buyers will still account for a large part of the of 5DIII sales.
However, pro buyers will now constitute a larger percentage of the total 5DIII sales compared to the 5DII (well, until the price drops, of course).

From that perspective, Canon did reposition the 5DIII as more of a pro camera compared to the 5DII.

I guess the expression "strictly for pros" is incorrect, though. I stand corrected.
There will be hobbyists buying the $6.8K 1DX camera and $14K 800/5.6L lens.
So, technically, non of these products is "strictly for pros". Same for the 5DIII.
My bad for hurting the feelings of non-pros with $3.5K of disposable income  ;D ;D.

The bold seems to imply that the poster is not in this category. 

My beef is not with those that can't afford the camera -- it's with those that presume to give business advice in a condescending way to Canon like they know better re: camera sales.  That's quite a presumption.

Instead of implying that the MD3 is a sales failure by indicating that stores have them in stock (which is mostly not true anyway), the best way to see if the MD3 was a success for Canon would be to compare the sales to the MD2.  These numbers will truly indicate which model sold better.  It wouldn't surprise me to see that the MD3 sells more or at least in similar numbers to the MD 2 when you compare monthly or quarterly sales after launch.

awinphoto

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2010
    • View Profile
    • AW Photography
Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2012, 03:56:23 PM »
Interesting thought that only pros would buy a 5DIII - I know 3 people with 5DIII and none of those are pros - so what is that presumption based on?

Hehe. You seem to be missing my point ... while at the same time confirming it  ;D.

As I said in my post, pros have never been the core market of the 5D series.
The 3 non-pros you know that bought the 5DIII are just another confirmation of that.

The thing is, as the price increases, the ratio of pro vs non-pro buyers increases too.

Non-pro buyers will still account for a large part of the of 5DIII sales.
However, pro buyers will now constitute a larger percentage of the total 5DIII sales compared to the 5DII (well, until the price drops, of course).

From that perspective, Canon did reposition the 5DIII as more of a pro camera compared to the 5DII.

I guess the expression "strictly for pros" is incorrect, though. I stand corrected.
There will be hobbyists buying the $6.8K 1DX camera and $14K 800/5.6L lens.
So, technically, non of these products is "strictly for pros". Same for the 5DIII.
My bad for hurting the feelings of non-pros with $3.5K of disposable income  ;D ;D.

The bold seems to imply that the poster is not in this category. 

My beef is not with those that can't afford the camera -- it's with those that presume to give business advice in a condescending way to Canon like they know better re: camera sales.  That's quite a presumption.

Instead of implying that the MD3 is a sales failure by indicating that stores have them in stock (which is mostly not true anyway), the best way to see if the MD3 was a success for Canon would be to compare the sales to the MD2.  These numbers will truly indicate which model sold better.  It wouldn't surprise me to see that the MD3 sells more or at least in similar numbers to the MD 2 when you compare monthly or quarterly sales after launch.

Also dont forget canon has been building more inventory of the 5d3 compared to the 5d2 launch, double the factories producing the 5d3 compared to the 5d2 launch, and were basically better prepared in this launch than the 5d2...
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, Canon 85 1.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2012, 03:56:23 PM »

sarangiman

  • Canon 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 375
    • View Profile
Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2012, 04:18:14 PM »
Canon 5DMkII cannibalized 1Ds sales. People who still sprung for the 1D series probably wanted (1) better AF; (2) better speed; (3) better sealing.

Now Canon releases a 5DMkIII which is essentially a 5DMkII that can actually (1) focus, (2) has 6fps vs. 3.9, & (3) apparently has better weather sealing.

Essentially closing the gap between 5D & 1D series even further.

But they open up pre-orders for it before you can even pre-order a 1Dx. Probably forcing a lot of people who've been looking for an upgrade to just go with the 5DIII even if they'd initially had their eyes on a 1Dx.

That really makes me question the foresight of their marketing team.

Unless they release some reports showing the vastly better tech of the 1Dx pronto (improved sensor? higher processing power to downscale 18MP to 2MP for 1080p video better using more sophisticated downsampling?), my feeling is they're going to once again have the 5DIII cannibalize 1Dx sales.

But I may be wrong.

psolberg

  • Canon 7D MK II
  • *****
  • Posts: 483
    • View Profile
Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2012, 04:19:10 PM »
It is ok but it is not worth the cost for mos mk2 owners. 3500 is too steep.

AmbientLight

  • Canon 7D MK II
  • *****
  • Posts: 492
    • View Profile
Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2012, 04:23:07 PM »
In my humble opinion Canon is doing well in terms of corporate strategy and execution. Lowering prices is often bad for business (would it be any good for yours?), so Canon trying to stick to a higher initial sales price, which is not even higher once you calculate currency effects, is just good business sense. Corporations want to earn money, not to give away new goods for less, which in my opinion would be sign of really bad business sense. Of course the trick is to set the right price for the market. If the pricing would be off, we can expect price corrections to increase sales volume, just to keep those factories occupied and to avoid stockpiling goods in warehouses, which does have a cost attached.

So for all of those who complain about $500 more or less in a camera's price, why don't you just wait? If many do feel like you, the price of the camera body will indeed come down to what you want. You only need some patience. If on the other hand there are so many people buying the camera for the initial asking price, that you are simply not part of the initial buyers group, you can still wait for eventual availability of a used camera or you can just save your money until you have sufficient funds. I don't think these are bad options. I myself am currently waiting, wondering if the price will come down. It doesn't make me question Canon's ability to perform business.

Regarding the 1Dx I believe Canon just wants to avoid errors, so they delay the launch until they feel they are ready.

SomeGuyInNewJersey

  • Guest
Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2012, 04:32:01 PM »
I own a 7D, several primes, 2 L lenses, 2x583EX2's, Elinchrom 500W strobes, and now am buying the 5D3.  But you know what?  Still my coffee set up costs more than my photo gear put together.
That must be one expensive coffee machine!

AmbientLight

  • Canon 7D MK II
  • *****
  • Posts: 492
    • View Profile
Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2012, 04:39:49 PM »
In my experience that is just normal. Your first investment for a new office ritually goes into a coffee machine  ;D

awinphoto

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2010
    • View Profile
    • AW Photography
Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2012, 04:42:59 PM »
All this back and forth about canon/prices/market makes me think of a line from the mothman prophesies..  "a window-washer on skyscraper could probably predict a traffic accident below him before it happens.  Does it make him smarter than the ones down below?  No, it's just from a different perspective.".

Canon, their PR, their market researchers, their engineers are probably taking a good hard look at what is happening.. sales.. general feedback.. response...  Taking everything into account before releasing their 1dx, their 4K video cam, and maybe a 5dx?  There is a rhyme and reason to their madness and dont think they haven't considered they haven't done their homework on similarities and contrast between the 5d3 and the 1dx...  They know their target audiences, they know who they are going after, and all those who have in some way an issue with this camera, you just may not be in their "target audience".  Perhaps they have another camera they have you as being a target audience, perhaps not... But let them do their thing and we'll see what this year brings. 
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, Canon 85 1.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2012, 04:42:59 PM »

prestonpalmer

  • Guest
Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #43 on: March 29, 2012, 04:47:43 PM »
Agreed.  As a professional wedding photographer, all I ever wanted that my 5D2 didn't have was, better ISO performance above 1600, better AF, Dual Card slot, and slightly faster frame rate, and better video features.

Canon did EXACTLY that in the 5d3.  Cant wait to use it at a wedding next week.

nehemiah

  • Power Shot G7X
  • **
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #44 on: March 29, 2012, 05:42:45 PM »
I own a 7D, several primes, 2 L lenses, 2x583EX2's, Elinchrom 500W strobes, and now am buying the 5D3.  But you know what?  Still my coffee set up costs more than my photo gear put together.
That must be one expensive coffee machine!

Actually, for coffee what is considered most important (aside from fresh beans) is the quality of the grinder.  This isn't the same grinder I have but I have a similar:  http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/grinders/mazzer_super_jolly_electronic

Some of the better home espresso machines will also easily cost more than the MD3.

Those are my two hobbies.  I'm a coffeegeek and I like photography.  Some day I hope to be good at both (I'm good at neither at the time).

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon smarter than we think
« Reply #44 on: March 29, 2012, 05:42:45 PM »