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Author Topic: Canon hurry up! Nikon's face-detection & Sony's Exmor sensors are killing us!  (Read 26682 times)

psolberg

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Ah yes. Buy more important, the meter on the 5Dmk3 is primitive as hell. Even the most basic Nikon dslr meters color. Only the 1DX does this. A real crippling by canon on the 5D3.

That's a lot of crap right there.

crap? how so? As far as I know, the canon 63 zone sensor is the same old technology canon has been using for decades. meaning it is the color blind sensor you have had for ages. Unlike the 1DX RGB meter sensor which the 5DmkIII lacks. Every nikon body uses an RGB sensor and finally canon has moved to one, but only in their top of the line body so far.

watch it happen, the next few canon bodies will have RGB sensors for metering except for the 5DmkIII.


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mitchell3417

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Straight off the canon website.

"The EOS 5D Mark III features Canon's multi-layer 63-zone iFCL (intelligent Focus Color Luminance) Metering System that integrates the cameras AF system into its readings. By taking into account the color and luminosity surrounding the chosen AF point(s), this new system delivers an entirely new level of accuracy, especially in situations where the light changes quickly. The metering sensor enables evaluative, center weighted, partial and spot metering, plus offers 5-step exposure compensation for perfectly exposed images, every time."

Same system used in the 7D. The point is, they both use COLOR.
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D.Sim

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Sigh... Can we please bring back the Karma system....

things were so much more.... civilized... and also, fewer trolls...

kirillica

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Straight off the canon website.

"The EOS 5D Mark III features Canon's multi-layer 63-zone iFCL (intelligent Focus Color Luminance) Metering System that integrates the cameras AF system into its readings. By taking into account the color and luminosity surrounding the chosen AF point(s), this new system delivers an entirely new level of accuracy, especially in situations where the light changes quickly. The metering sensor enables evaluative, center weighted, partial and spot metering, plus offers 5-step exposure compensation for perfectly exposed images, every time."

Same system used in the 7D. The point is, they both use COLOR.

Not really. Color Luminance != RGB color.

But, anyway. I always thought that I saw thousands of excellent pictures made by photographers. Some of them - with - unbelievable - manual focus. Do you really think face detection will make you work step easier? I doubt so.

By the way, mobile phones have face detection. Buy new Nokia 40Mp+ phone, if pixels and algorithms are the things making ordinary photo excellent :)
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 08:42:59 AM by kirillica »

Neeneko

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Same system used in the 7D. The point is, they both use COLOR.

Meh.  Colour is no big deal.. ever try to buy a B&W camera?

agierke

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i would want to know what the effective shutter lag is going to be when using face detection AF. i imagine it will take longer to AF if it needs to figure out what are the faces within the scene. any significant lag and this feature becomes a useless gimmick. remember eye controlled focusing? what happened to that?

i'm in the camp that doesnt trust auto features and rarely uses them. i am the photographer...i want control over making the photograph. the camera cannot make better decisions than me.

features are nice but in the end with a little effort and practice to hone your skills i have found i take better pictures when i'm doing things manually than when i am relying on automated features. give me a functioning fast AF system and i'm good after that. 
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neuroanatomist

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Same system used in the 7D. The point is, they both use COLOR.

Yes, they do.  But not RGB.  "The metering sensor has 63 measurement zones and is a Dual-layer design with each layer sensitive to different wavelengths of light... one layer sensitive to red/green light and one layer sensitive to blue/green light."

So, Canon's iFCL metering system sees color in the same way as a dog or an old-world monkey sees color - a dichromatic system, not a trichromatic system like the 1D X and us humans use (of course, birds, reptiles and fish are tetrachromatic - four color channels, so it's not like we humans and the 1D X are so special  :P ).
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briansquibb

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Spring is here - our old cameras can still take a good picture without all the technological gizmos - face-detection doesn't really grab me as important and the IQ is more than good enough. My choice of camera is not going to be impacted by the technology

Here is this mornings picture of a kid, taken with an obsolete APS-H camera without iFCL or face detection. The second is even worse - with a camera with a Digic 3 processor!

Second picture:

Camera Model: Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III
Lens: EF24-105mm f/4L IS USM
Image Date: 2012-04-01 12:06:33 (no TZ)
Focal Length: 105.0mm
Aperture: f/8.0
Exposure Time: 0.020 s (1/50)
ISO equiv: 50
Exposure Bias: +0.33 EV
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 11:11:39 AM by briansquibb »

ippikiokami

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Spring is here - our old cameras can still take a good picture without all the technological gizmos - face-detection doesn't really grab me as important and the IQ is more than good enough. My choice of camera is not going to be impacted by the technology

Here is this mornings picture of a kid, taken with an obsolete APS-H camera without iFCL or face detection. The second is even worse - with a camera with a Digic 3 processor!

Second picture:

Camera Model: Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III
Lens: EF24-105mm f/4L IS USM
Image Date: 2012-04-01 12:06:33 (no TZ)
Focal Length: 105.0mm
Aperture: f/8.0
Exposure Time: 0.020 s (1/50)
ISO equiv: 50
Exposure Bias: +0.33 EV

What if I told you I'll make a camera with Goat detection ? ;) would that change your thinking?

briansquibb

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Spring is here - our old cameras can still take a good picture without all the technological gizmos - face-detection doesn't really grab me as important and the IQ is more than good enough. My choice of camera is not going to be impacted by the technology

Here is this mornings picture of a kid, taken with an obsolete APS-H camera without iFCL or face detection. The second is even worse - with a camera with a Digic 3 processor!

Second picture:

Camera Model: Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III
Lens: EF24-105mm f/4L IS USM
Image Date: 2012-04-01 12:06:33 (no TZ)
Focal Length: 105.0mm
Aperture: f/8.0
Exposure Time: 0.020 s (1/50)
ISO equiv: 50
Exposure Bias: +0.33 EV

What if I told you I'll make a camera with Goat detection ? ;) would that change your thinking?

LOL  ;D ;D ;D

neuroanatomist

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What if I told you I'll make a camera with Goat detection ? ;) would that change your thinking?

Only if the camera emitted a bleat instead of a beep for goat focus confirmation...   :P
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briansquibb

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Goats D800 and 5DIII go head to head about depth of field whilst MF645 looks on in amusement


Kernuak

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So, Canon's iFCL metering system sees color in the same way as a dog or an old-world monkey sees color - a dichromatic system, not a trichromatic system like the 1D X and us humans use...
Does this distinction have any real-world implications in the accuracy and/or quality of the AF system?
Not in the old world :P.
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neuroanatomist

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So, Canon's iFCL metering system sees color in the same way as a dog or an old-world monkey sees color - a dichromatic system, not a trichromatic system like the 1D X and us humans use...
Does this distinction have any real-world implications in the accuracy and/or quality of the AF system?

Probably, but really it's more to do with the higher resolution of the tricolor (RGB) metering sensor of the 1D X, which has sufficient resolution to feed additional data to the AF system for tracking.  The 2-color iFCL system does feed general color information to the AF system, which is useful in cases where the wavelength of the main illumination is not white (e.g. mercury or sodium lamps).  Obvioulsly, it plays a role in metering accuracy, too. 
EOS 1D X, EOS M6, lots of lenses
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jrista

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So, Canon's iFCL metering system sees color in the same way as a dog or an old-world monkey sees color - a dichromatic system, not a trichromatic system like the 1D X and us humans use...
Does this distinction have any real-world implications in the accuracy and/or quality of the AF system?

I wouldn't say it has too many real-world implications, probably even less than a biological system.

In human vision, we have two separate "poles" of color sensitivity: blue/yellow and green/magenta. Because of the nature of how our trichromatic sight works, we cannot actually sense both blue and yellow or both green and magenta at the same spatial point at the same moment. If you try, the eye & brain will compensate by oscillating between sensing one color then sensing the other (http://io9.com/5710434/train-yourself-to-see-impossible-colors)...however you will not actually see green (which according to color theory is what you should get when blending blue and yellow). This is generally not a problem, as we have two separate poles of color sensitivity (increasing "color sensitivity resolution"), and our eyes "refresh" some 500 times a second. Dichromatic vision has only a single pole, and therefor has lower color sensitivity resolution. If you had dichromatic vision, you could either sense red or blue, but not both at the same time.

Now, the iFCL sensor is not a biological system, its an electronic system. Silicon is semitransparent to various wavelengths of light. So long as the upper layer is blue sensitive, there is nothing to prevent an electronic sensor from simultaneously sensing blue-green and red-green at the same time. Such a sensor probably still doesn't have as high a color sensitivity resolution as a trichromatic system would since your sensing blue-green and red-green rather than blue, red, and green, but its probably better than a biological dichromatic system.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 04:42:31 PM by jrista »

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