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Author Topic: Canon hurry up! Nikon's face-detection & Sony's Exmor sensors are killing us!  (Read 12261 times)

PhotoCat

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With equally due respect if you have to rely on face detection in order to shoot portraits accurately then you need to brush up your skills.

I would say that Having face recognition willbe more threat to portrait photographers than anything else. Easy to set up a cheap business or for the likes of Costco etc to pay someone peanuts to just press a button.

No, I don't have to rely on face-det today but to arrive at the correct exposure when using e-ttl bounced flash indoor, some kind of iterative procedure is needed. U test shoot and then adjust and then re-shoot.

Perhaps there is something I am missing. Please enlighten me with a proper technique how I can get a
decent exposure of a bride using e-ttl bounced flash indoor, without needing to do a test shot.

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Tcapp

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With equally due respect if you have to rely on face detection in order to shoot portraits accurately then you need to brush up your skills.

I would say that Having face recognition willbe more threat to portrait photographers than anything else. Easy to set up a cheap business or for the likes of Costco etc to pay someone peanuts to just press a button.

I'm inclined to agree... but I don't think that we should fear any technology. (Unless they teach robots art, then we are screwed.)
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itsnotmeyouknow

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Technology won't replace art (at least I hope not). I don't fear technology. But. If you make something easy to do then anyone can do it. Most church weddings in uk don't allow flash and in my view flash is too intrusive in what should be intimate moments. If you MUST have flash then reshoot before reception.

The biggest investment you can give is experience. Make something easy to achieve for a $5k down payment and you are left with a Walmart product. Yes it's functional but do you want your wedding photography to be functional?

I think the OP has overstated his/her case. Lack of face recognition isn't killing photographers. Needing LESS skill will be the thing that kills photography especially in regard to wedding photography. Quick Facebook profile buy camer few lenses and you're off. Lots of underpriced gigs by people doing it in their spare time and not paying their taxes while everyone doing it properly struggles.

Hang on, that's happening already on present technology.

Be very careful what you wish for. It may very well come true and not be everything you dreamed of

Tcapp

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Technology won't replace art (at least I hope not). I don't fear technology. But. If you make something easy to do then anyone can do it. Most church weddings in uk don't allow flash and in my view flash is too intrusive in what should be intimate moments. If you MUST have flash then reshoot before reception.

The biggest investment you can give is experience. Make something easy to achieve for a $5k down payment and you are left with a Walmart product. Yes it's functional but do you want your wedding photography to be functional?

I think the OP has overstated his/her case. Lack of face recognition isn't killing photographers. Needing LESS skill will be the thing that kills photography especially in regard to wedding photography. Quick Facebook profile buy camer few lenses and you're off. Lots of underpriced gigs by people doing it in their spare time and not paying their taxes while everyone doing it properly struggles.

Hang on, that's happening already on present technology.

Be very careful what you wish for. It may very well come true and not be everything you dreamed of

valid point. We pros will lose some business to the weekend warriors, but always remember, no matter what happens:

The cream always rises to the top.
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PhotoCat

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In all honesty, I really don't want anyone to invent any digital camera, face detection nor auto-focus, so that our value as a professional photographer is easily seen. Unfortunately that is not the case. Nikon has done it now and we Canon shooters need the playing field leveled. Imagine u r shooting the processional at f2.0-2.8 with bounced flash and hoping that AI-Servo is giving u a few sharp images, while at the same time uncle Bob is just behind u with his D800 with face priority on...  Sure, my lighting will be better than his but if Nikon's face detect technology really delivers, he might nail the focus better than I can with AI-Servo.    sigh...  Here, it is clearly a technology competition.  we can't turn the clock back... if we can't beat them, we might as well join them... sigh...    Eventually as tech advances, it might not be about the camera anymore, it could all be about art, lighting, posing,  composition... and post work perhaps...
« Last Edit: March 31, 2012, 11:31:39 PM by PhotoCat »

elflord

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With equally due respect if you have to rely on face detection in order to shoot portraits accurately then you need to brush up your skills.

I would say that Having face recognition willbe more threat to portrait photographers than anything else. Easy to set up a cheap business or for the likes of Costco etc to pay someone peanuts to just press a button.

No, I don't have to rely on face-det today but to arrive at the correct exposure when using e-ttl bounced flash indoor, some kind of iterative procedure is needed. U test shoot and then adjust and then re-shoot.

Perhaps there is something I am missing. Please enlighten me with a proper technique how I can get a
decent exposure of a bride using e-ttl bounced flash indoor, without needing to do a test shot.

Can't you use spot metering, FEL, and meter-and-recompose ? That's not iterative.

PhotoCat

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With equally due respect if you have to rely on face detection in order to shoot portraits accurately then you need to brush up your skills.

I would say that Having face recognition willbe more threat to portrait photographers than anything else. Easy to set up a cheap business or for the likes of Costco etc to pay someone peanuts to just press a button.

No, I don't have to rely on face-det today but to arrive at the correct exposure when using e-ttl bounced flash indoor, some kind of iterative procedure is needed. U test shoot and then adjust and then re-shoot.

Perhaps there is something I am missing. Please enlighten me with a proper technique how I can get a
decent exposure of a bride using e-ttl bounced flash indoor, without needing to do a test shot.

Can't you use spot metering, FEL, and meter-and-recompose ? That's not iterative.

Thanks for the suggestion. I have tried that b4 but spot metering doesn't seem to work with e-ttl.
I think e-ttl only has 2 metering modes: evaluative & centre weighted, at least on my 5d2.
However, if this technique has worked for u, please elaborate on it and I love to learn more. Thanks!

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jrista

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Quote

well EXMOR is not EXMOR R.

the sensor in the D800 is not backlit.

EXMOR:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/technology/technology/theme/cmos_01.html


EXMOR R:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/technology/technology/theme/exmor_r_01.html


I can't believe D800's sensor is not backlit, seeing its high ISO score on DXOmark...
When 36MEG is scaled down to 8x12, or 8MEG, its noise performance is vy close to D3S.

Well, Canon has to double hurry up, if Sony can achieve this kind of ISO without backlit technology.
Astro, do u have a reference quoting D800 is not using a backlit sensor? Tks!


You have to take DXO data with a grain of salt, and since the advent of D800 print DR results, you have to be EXTREMELY skeptical about it. You also have to realize that "Print DR" is an image that has had post processing. We don't know exactly what DXO is doing to those images, but the idea that you can magically gain additional DR above and beyond what the senor itself is capable of (which is what their Screen DR rating is representative of) is extremely fishy.

Riddle me this: If the D800 SENSOR itself is capable of 13.23 stops of DR, and the scene you are trying to expose has 14.4 stops of DR...will you be able to capture the full scene DR in a single shot? The obvious answer is no. The sensor is only capable of 13.23 stops of DR, and trying to expose all 14.4 stops in one shot is going to either blow highlights or block shadows. There is also the simple math problem. A 14-bit sensor is a 14-stop sensor...you would have to go to at least a 15-bit sensor to achieve more than 14.0 stops of native DR with the sensor itself.

The D800 is NOT as amazing as it sounds, and referring to it as "unbelievable" would be about as accurate an exclamation you can get...it literally is unbelievable. The Canon 1D IV has 11.46 stops of DR. The difference between the D800 and the 1D IV is 1.77 stops, or roughly 1 2/3rds of a stop, of dynamic range. Not 2 stops, not 3 stops. The physical hardware differences are far more moderated than DXO, of whom Nikon is a paying customer and Canon is not, would like you to think.

Print DR == BIIIG Grain of Salt (or a big TUB of salt, whichever tickles your fancy...just make sure you really salt it good.)
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jrista

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Perhaps there is something I am missing. Please enlighten me with a proper technique how I can get a
decent exposure of a bride using e-ttl bounced flash indoor, without needing to do a test shot.

That would be called PRACTICE. You know the old saying: Practice makes Perfect! An intuitive knowledge of exposure and lighting is something that results from continuous, real-world, boundary-pushing use and experimentation.

Technology can make things easier, but face detection it is most assuredly NOT necessary to properly expose a bounce-flashed portrait. People were doing phenomenal flash-lit portraiture with film and mechanical cameras for decades before digital cameras were even conceived, and it was a good decade more before face recognition found its way into digital cameras at all. Don't get so rialed up over what is arguably a MINOR feature of a camera where a significant percentage of users will probably operate in full manual mode, and the rest will operate in a priority mode (which is still largely manual.)
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PhilDrinkwater

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Not only does the face detection works with
high-speed phase focusing but it also works with exposure calculation based on the face alone!
In addition, it works with i-TTL too!!  This is a paradigm changer for wedding photographers!

No... it really isn't... I'm getting a 1dx which has the same features and I can guarantee you that I won't be using it.

I can't trust the camera to decide what to do - I need to be in charge of the shoot. I've not got anything against auto features, but the camera choosing what to focus on?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2012, 05:48:33 PM by PhilDrinkwater »

DavidRiesenberg

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Gosh...how on earth anyone managed to make a good photograph before Nikon bestowed upon us the holy D800? Might as well write off nearly 200 years of photography.

briansquibb

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Perhaps there is something I am missing. Please enlighten me with a proper technique how I can get a
decent exposure of a bride using e-ttl bounced flash indoor, without needing to do a test shot.

That would be called PRACTICE. You know the old saying: Practice makes Perfect! An intuitive knowledge of exposure and lighting is something that results from continuous, real-world, boundary-pushing use and experimentation.

+1 e-TTL makes life so easy for flash photos

I suggest reading a book by Syl Arena for a simple but comprehensive text on Canon flash

ippikiokami

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Have you ever used this fd mode in the d800 yet? I wonder why since it's such a killer function no review i've read really has mentioned it?

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LetTheRightLensIn

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Quote

well EXMOR is not EXMOR R.

the sensor in the D800 is not backlit.

EXMOR:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/technology/technology/theme/cmos_01.html


EXMOR R:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/technology/technology/theme/exmor_r_01.html


I can't believe D800's sensor is not backlit, seeing its high ISO score on DXOmark...
When 36MEG is scaled down to 8x12, or 8MEG, its noise performance is vy close to D3S.

Well, Canon has to double hurry up, if Sony can achieve this kind of ISO without backlit technology.
Astro, do u have a reference quoting D800 is not using a backlit sensor? Tks!


D800 is not backlit. I believe they only just figured out how to get exmor backlit relatively recently. Supposedly it would currently cost quite a bit to produce it in FF size, but maybe for the D900 or D1000.

PhotoCat

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Have you ever used this fd mode in the d800 yet? I wonder why since it's such a killer function no review i've read really has mentioned it?


I really hate to advertise for Nikon but here it is:

http://scottkelby.com/2012/cliff-mautner-on-the-nikon-d800/

CTRL-f  for "face"

Read the article and the comments as well & use your own judgment since the word "Review" is not on the article!

« Last Edit: March 31, 2012, 11:24:00 PM by PhotoCat »

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