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Author Topic: tax on videocams with more than 29min 59sec recording time?  (Read 9977 times)

gkaefer

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Re: tax on videocams with more than 29min 59sec recording time?
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2012, 09:40:28 PM »
In my case I wanna film a 90min. theatre play (I'm organizing it and have the rights to film it).

Organizing may not give you the rights to film/record.  If your doing a play you purchased rights to perform, you may have to pay additional fees to record. Some schools have recently learned that the hard way when they recorded and later sold videos to parents.

But if you have the permission of the owner or your company owns the rights, film away.

thanks for information.
I've the rights to film  :), I organize the play, I pay the actors, I hire the stage and location, I sell the tickets;
the author of the play is dead since 1923, the play is from 1911.
Georg
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 10:12:35 PM by gkaefer »
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Re: tax on videocams with more than 29min 59sec recording time?
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2012, 09:40:28 PM »

gkaefer

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Re: tax on videocams with more than 29min 59sec recording time?
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2012, 10:09:20 PM »
Maybe answered on forum, didnt find it ... so sorry if double posting...

On the german wiki page for the MKIII I read
that Canon limits the video recording time because of avoiding to be taxed as video cam.
The Cam does not have an entry level price, so I wonder how much higher the camera would be, if videos with more than 29min 59sec could be possible. 50 or 100euro more for having an unlimited (limited by cardmedium) I think would not be a argument against it?

Georg

link to the german wiki page I refer to:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_5D_Mark_III

Yes, it happened in 2007, and rather than pay many millions of dollars in taxes, the camera industry limits still cameras that do video to 29 minutes and 59 seconds.  Think of all the compact cameras, dslr's, mirrorless cameras sold in Europe every year.  If they can do 800 x 600, or at over 23 frames a second, they are limited to 29.99 minutes before the tax cuts in. Most Cameras sold today can do that, maybe not phone cameras.   4.9% of 10 million cameras or so is not pocket change.
 
http://philipbloom.net/2009/06/03/the-lumix-30-minutes-eu-recording-issue/
 
As to designing a different camera for Europe, imagine the paperwork for travlers wanting to bring their cameras into Europe and having to pay tax or prove they are taking them back with them.
 
The solution is for European citizens to get the law changed. Vote out a few politicians, and its amazing how fast laws like this change.

thanks for information.
fact is that Canon is selling in Europe Videocamera which can record more than 29min. So for these devices Canon has no problem to accerpt this tax, and for Still Canons they cant do it because of the fact they're producing only one cam for the world? Thats sounds like a fake argument. The Canon named in USA "Rebel Xti" is named in Europe "400D" and many others models too have different stickers in 3 different regions and different manuals and different boxes for one and the same product. So this is economically also doubtful, the customer has to pay for this.
As in my case... I could save buying a second (video)camera if this European law would no longer exist.
So its finally Canons economically advantage having this law in existance, Canon can sell (worldwide) more Camera... and its customers disadvantage.

Georg
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 10:11:45 PM by gkaefer »
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Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: tax on videocams with more than 29min 59sec recording time?
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2012, 11:35:19 PM »
fact is that Canon is selling in Europe Videocamera which can record more than 29min. So for these devices Canon has no problem to accerpt this tax, and for Still Canons they cant do it because of the fact they're producing only one cam for the world? Thats sounds like a fake argument. The Canon named in USA "Rebel Xti" is named in Europe "400D" and many others models too have different stickers in 3 different regions and different manuals and different boxes for one and the same product. So this is economically also doubtful, the customer has to pay for this.
As in my case... I could save buying a second (video)camera if this European law would no longer exist.
So its finally Canons economically advantage having this law in existance, Canon can sell (worldwide) more Camera... and its customers disadvantage.

Georg

What makes you think that is a fake argument?  Do you really think its only Canon?
 
Which came first?  The Camcorder or the Tax??  The Camcorder was already out there for many years when the tax was levied, but the 5D MK II had not been released yet. 
 
 
Since The 5D MK II was the first high quality DSLR that would potentially be taxed, they merely limited it to under 30 minutes.  That wasn't a issue because it could only record for 12 minutes anyway.  Until the past year, overheating of the sensor also made it impractical to record for long periods, and the battery will not last very long either. 
 
ALL camera manufacturers do the same, be it Sony, Nikon, Panasonic, or whoever. 
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 05:06:35 PM by Mt Spokane Photography »

D.Sim

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Re: tax on videocams with more than 29min 59sec recording time?
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2012, 05:35:47 AM »
I think it's around 4,9% extra tax

ok. and is there information available why canon does not include this tax in the product price?
and if this is a european only thing than let the price higher than in other places on earth...
I mean we all pay taxes - painful enough if I look on my last bill at the gas station where more than 50% is directly going to tax...
Magic Latern solution of course I would also accept ;-))

Georg

Well, they don't include this tax in the produc price because they're keeping it under the limit so that theres NO need to pay the tax in the first place. If they allowed 1 second more though, you'd be paying what ~175 more on a ~3500 camera? Not a lot, true, but imagine all the whinging stills only shooters will have going on if that was there....

cayenne

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Re: tax on videocams with more than 29min 59sec recording time?
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2012, 11:27:08 AM »

Well, they don't include this tax in the produc price because they're keeping it under the limit so that theres NO need to pay the tax in the first place. If they allowed 1 second more though, you'd be paying what ~175 more on a ~3500 camera? Not a lot, true, but imagine all the whinging stills only shooters will have going on if that was there....

I wonder...do they sell more cameras in Europe or the US and the rest of the world? If less in Europe, why base the policy on the lowest common denominator?

At the very least...why don't they make it 'trivial' to bypass this artificial governor on recording time for video?

D.Sim

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Re: tax on videocams with more than 29min 59sec recording time?
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2012, 12:57:35 AM »

Well, they don't include this tax in the produc price because they're keeping it under the limit so that theres NO need to pay the tax in the first place. If they allowed 1 second more though, you'd be paying what ~175 more on a ~3500 camera? Not a lot, true, but imagine all the whinging stills only shooters will have going on if that was there....

I wonder...do they sell more cameras in Europe or the US and the rest of the world? If less in Europe, why base the policy on the lowest common denominator?

At the very least...why don't they make it 'trivial' to bypass this artificial governor on recording time for video?

Because then the moment you step into Europe, you're going to get taxed. Also: How many dSLR shooters are seriously going to be shooting for >30 mins? Even those cinematographers keep it way under that time limit, same goes for wedding shooters. If you're shooting something continuous that you need more than that time, you're going to be looking for a dedicated video camera

CanineCandidsByL

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Re: tax on videocams with more than 29min 59sec recording time?
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2012, 11:48:56 AM »
I guess this raises the obvious question, why not two versions of the camera? Identical versions except with and withou >30 min recording and with the EU tax collected. However I prefer the "firing" of legislator until this gets fixed.

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Re: tax on videocams with more than 29min 59sec recording time?
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2012, 11:48:56 AM »

cayenne

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Re: tax on videocams with more than 29min 59sec recording time?
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2012, 07:00:19 PM »
I guess this raises the obvious question, why not two versions of the camera? Identical versions except with and withou >30 min recording and with the EU tax collected. However I prefer the "firing" of legislator until this gets fixed.
Or at the very least....maybe have Canon make it trivial to defeat the artificial limit..that way, they don't get taxed...since they meet the letter of the law...but with a simple switch....turn it off.

Terry Rogers

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Re: tax on videocams with more than 29min 59sec recording time?
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2012, 07:22:27 PM »
These types of taxes make my blood boil. We have a similar tax on blank media (CD's) in Canada because they can be used to copy pirated music. It distributes the cost of lost revenue from the record companies to everyone who uses CD's... what???!!!??? By that logic, I am paying for music I have not purchased when I buy blank CD's, and thus the tax is in fact stealing from me!!!! To me, a logical conclusion would be to pirate and download all you can and all you want as you are paying for it whether you do it or not.
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Re: tax on videocams with more than 29min 59sec recording time?
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2012, 07:22:27 PM »