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Author Topic: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF  (Read 40015 times)

shizam1

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #90 on: April 02, 2012, 06:10:04 PM »
Mine so far focuses instantly in low light, but I've only been using the default center spot.  My 5D MK II was also instant, but a hair slower, and the 5D MK II was one of the fastest low light AF bodies around.
 
I did turn off all the lights in my studio and verifying that it would not AF, then as I added light so that it needed ISO 102000 to focus at 1/60 and f/4, it took 3 or 4 seconds to AF.  As the light became enough to use ISO 25600, focus was fast.  I was using my 135mm L to test this.
 
I haven't tried the AF assist light on my 580 EX II, because it did not need it in what I considered to be extreme low light.  I'm wondering if the issue might have been related to the flash unit.  I'll try mine again tonight and try to duplicate your problem, it would be good to know if something is triggering this, or if your AF has a problem, or if mine also has a issue that I did not see. 
 
I do lots of extreme low light photography in near darkness and focus is perfect and fast with my MK II, so focusing in very low liight is a must for me.

Yeah, I've never had much of a problem focusing with the 5DII either, I was just having problems at the venue acquiring focus in low light, and was getting the exact same result with both cameras... and was just expecting better results with the 5DIII for low light.

Maybe there are three tiers - good light, low light, crazy dark, and the 5DIII does better in the first two and is equivalent in the last?

Anyway, food for thought, I'll play around more later.

I know for a fact that one shot I COULDN'T lock onto quick enough was ISO 1600, f/2.0 and 1/13 shutter speed.  I know this, because I accidentally had the camera on Aperture priority instead of manual, and it came out blurry ;)

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #90 on: April 02, 2012, 06:10:04 PM »

helpful

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #91 on: April 02, 2012, 06:12:46 PM »
This is not what I am getting. I shot an inauguration on Friday with the 5D3 and autofocus was insanely perfect and snappy down to exposures of 1/30th at f/2.0 at ISO 12,800 with the 135mm f/2.0L.

I also shot a track meet that ran until 1030 pm under poor stadium lights, and tracking was right on, even with runners going in and out of the uneven beams of very dim lights, or backlit in the curves of the track.

The AF of the 5D3 is absolutely incomparably better than the 5D2, and I have loads of experience to be able to make this statement.

BTW, I am using the automatic focus tracking which uses the center spot to lock on and then tracks it to any of the other 61 AF points. It is the mode that shows up with a border around all the AF points and a bold center point, when you are selecting autofocus modes. (I am describing the view through the viewfinder.)

Also, AF worked just as well even if I selected the initial focusing point as one of the other ones rather than the center.

« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 06:15:29 PM by helpful »
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RunAndGun

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #92 on: April 02, 2012, 06:42:00 PM »
I was sitting in my office one night last week with only one desk lamp on and i was able to achieve FAST focus lock with center point, single shot, 70-200 f/2.8 v2 on almost anything I pointed the camera at.  I was nailing focus shooting into my walk-in gear closet with no lights on in it.  It seemed like as long as there was a least a TINY bit of contrast on the object, it would lock-on and be in-focus.  This new focus system is worlds better than the MKII's system.

The MKIII, especially the focus system, seems to be very polarizing.  People are either singing it's praises and loving it, or they're saying it's junk...  All I can speak to is MY experience with MY copy of the MKIII, and so far it has performed admirably for ME.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #93 on: April 02, 2012, 07:11:06 PM »
How dark is 2.8 @1600 ISO with 3 seconds exposure ??
Just a question, but what do we expect from the AF with this kind of darkness ??

It was pretty dark :)  It was my basement.  I wasn't shooting in an environment that dark the other night.  Lighting was spotty though ( literally, with lot's of mini-floods creating mood ), so I'm sure some spots were darker than others.

Anyway, my the point of the original post, was in dark situations, the 5DII focused as fast as the 5DII, and I was kind of hoping for some improvement.  As well, switching from single AF point to the expansion or vice versa didn't seem to make much difference under those dark conditions.

I think it was said tht you used the 85 1.2, isn't that supposed to have very slow AF and a massive focusing element to move? Perhaps it was already moving full speed wth the 5D2 (or maybe it needs 1 series battery power to move faster?)   I don't know, but just tossing that out there.


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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #94 on: April 02, 2012, 07:41:51 PM »
If it hasn't been said already - take the assist points off - the fastest af point (and the correct af mode in that situation) is the standard single af (not precision spot af) assist points is best used for AI Servo on a moving object. Especially if you are running the 1.2 lenses wide open assist point will only slow the entire af system down as it is trying to feed data to and from the center point.

cpsico

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #95 on: April 02, 2012, 07:46:15 PM »
The auto focus is complex, there is a learning curve. I have tested a 5 d MarkIII AF was lightning fast

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #96 on: April 02, 2012, 08:49:26 PM »
It was dark, you had it set right and it failed you. Shizam1, perhaps you and Mrs. Shizam1, should simply return that camera (or use it under different conditions) and continue to shoot with the two Mark IIs that have brought you all your wealth and acclaim. It seems many have tried heartily to solve your problem to no avail. 

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #96 on: April 02, 2012, 08:49:26 PM »

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #97 on: April 03, 2012, 01:10:38 AM »
I do a lot of low light shooting with my 5D MK II, and tried out my 5D MK III with my 35mmL, 50mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.8, and 24-105mm f/4  in various levels of low light.  Obviously, it takes longer to focus in extreme low light, but, as noted, something is going on that seems different.  I see the lens focus, and the shutter will then operate, but the AF achieved light delays 1/2 sec to 1.5 sec after focus is apparently achieved.
 
I tried some different settings, changing to shutter release priority, etc, but it still delayed before the focus light flashed.  I'm thinking that the camera is making a fine adjustment or refining the AF, but if the lens moves in 1.5 sec in extreme low light, the focus light delays before it illuminates.
 
The 50mm f/1.4 achieved focus and released the shutter in about 1 second, which was faster than the other lenses, it does not have to move far, but it was a suprise to see the big difference.  The other three lenses took about 2 seconds in very low light 1-1/2 seconds for the shutter to release and just over two seconds if I waited for the light.  I did not see a difference in sharpness, but then, to even get a image n low light like that, I was using ISO 51200 at f/4 and 1/60 sec or 1/50 sec at f/1.8 and ISO 6400.
 
 
Merely low light was no problem, but shooting in extreme low light was no a whole lot different than the 5D MK II.
 
So, all I can say is press the shutter fully, and it will operate when focus is achieved.  If you half press and wait for the AF light to flash, it will take longer.
 

Jared

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #98 on: April 03, 2012, 03:54:51 AM »
Hi everyone,

Apologies if any of this has been covered throughtout the rest of the thread but I thought I'd clarify some uncertainties I came across:

1) The 5D2 can only utilise AF-point expansion to the 6 additional points in AI-Servo mode AND whilst the center point is selected. It does NOT work in One-Shot!

2) Using the AF-assist (red) light on any speedlite will slow the AF dramatically. If you need speed, turn it off in the custom functions (only the 5D3 can do this, of the 5D bodies - I think this previously was only a 1-series feature - correct me if I'm wrong). This will obviously have the trade-off that you'll have trouble locking onto low-contrast (eg. plain colours with little or no texture)/low exposure value subjects.

3) The AF-assist beam from a 580EX II will not cover all the AF-points of the new 61-point AF-system. I don't know off-hand the extent of coverage to the outer points - it was in the 5D3 manual.

4) The AF-assist beam puts out an array of red vertical stripes to introduce contrast for horizontal line AF sensors to be able to lock on

5) Further to point 4, using the spot AF point mode reduces the area for phase detection and hence isn't recommended for use in combination with the AF-assist beam as it reduces the likelihood and speed of locking on.

6) Fast primes often take longer to focus as accuracy is critical, as one can imagine when the lens may be being shot wide-open

7) My 85mm f/1.2 II is actually quite fast. You just need to know how to use it: turn off focus hunting in custom functions (I always have it disabled) and secondly if you manually pre-focus the lens to an approximate distance to your subject it will be quick at locking on. If the lens is used in AI-Servo the incremental adjustments when tracking a subject are actually quite fast. You just don't want to rack/hunt from one end of the range to the other when shooting action if you can help it.





« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 04:48:21 AM by Jared »

Mr Simpleton

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #99 on: April 03, 2012, 04:13:19 AM »
Did some further testing with the Mk3 and 70-200/2,8ISMk2, my gut tells me things did improve by removing and re-inserting battery, and this with lights even lower! And what may make comparing with the older Mk2 difficult is that the size of the AF point is likely to be much smaller in the MK3. After rebooting camera, I had no problems with fast and "snappy" AF in single shot, but with slightly less contrasty objects it did stop to "think for a while", not just hunt, runs the USM stops AF and nothing happens for say ~1 second and then AF confirmation. The Mk2 may have "seen" the object with high contrast (this was a wee bit off center), and locked on that when pointing at a slightly less contrasty area...

So so far my findings are: Yes there are "issues" with the 5D Mk3, it was really funky with my 200/2IS, and camera had all sorts of lock-ups/unresponsiveness when changing back to my 70-200. This was solved by re-boot of camera. Now the low light snappy AF may be an issue too... further testing has to be done. But it seems all is related to f/w and probably will be fixed in f/w upgrades (as it seems to correct after removal of battery).

I find that once camera has locked, the focus is dead on.... no worries that it misfocus! Not that I had any issues with my Mk2 either... but tracking AF is great, much improved over the Mk2. And I find that I can lock foucs in roughly 2 stops lower light that the Mk2, sweet!

shizam1

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #100 on: April 03, 2012, 10:07:17 AM »
Obviously, it takes longer to focus in extreme low light, but, as noted, something is going on that seems different.  I see the lens focus, and the shutter will then operate, but the AF achieved light delays 1/2 sec to 1.5 sec after focus is apparently achieved.
 

Yeah, I noticed that as well.  It would seem to focus, and then hesitate for a period of time before signalling that focus had been achieved.  Maybe double checking?

kevinhan

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #101 on: May 31, 2012, 11:09:00 PM »
I came from a 5d2 and also notice the same thing about my 5d3. Single shot AF with center point is noticeably slower than on the 5d2.

Axilrod

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #102 on: May 31, 2012, 11:21:25 PM »
Ok I played around with my 85 for like 15 minutes going between spot and point area expansion and both of them locked on pretty quickly, definitely not a couple seconds.  The 85 isn't a very fast focusing lens of course, but it's definitely faster on the 5DIII than the II.  The only time the focus was very slow was in live view mode, but through the viewfinder it was very fast.  If this was your experience with the 5DIII you may want to play around some more, even after 2 months I'm still amazed by how often the camera just nails the focus.  Especially in Servo mode with fast moving subjects, but one shot is a walk in the park.  In my mind comparing the AF between the II and III is like a joke, I feel like the 5DII might as well not even have AF after using the III. 

I wouldn't be too discouraged, it may just be something minor.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 11:43:43 PM by Axilrod »
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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #102 on: May 31, 2012, 11:21:25 PM »

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #103 on: June 01, 2012, 01:52:08 AM »
Frankly I'm astonished with the AF on the 5D3. It's quick and accurate right out to the outer points. And that's in One Shot or AI Servo. In low light it it genuinely knocked my socks off...but then I'm coming mainly from 1-Series experience. The Mk4 AF is easily confused in ahem, gentle lighting.

At risk of repeating what others have been saying, the sheer accuracy of the 5D3 AF has given new flexibility to the use of very wide apertures. Shooting handheld at f/1.4 has always been a bit hit & miss, just a minute sway of the body will shift focus enough to lose your focus point enough to junk the shot. Every new Canon that's come out since the 1Ds I've wanted to trust AI Servo in close f/1.4- f/2.8 portrait situations to keep track of my essential focus point. And it looks like the 5D3 is the first in my generally rough & ready experience to punch through with this ability.

PW

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #104 on: June 01, 2012, 01:55:14 AM »
Ok I played around with my 85 for like 15 minutes going between spot and point area expansion and both of them locked on pretty quickly, definitely not a couple seconds.  The 85 isn't a very fast focusing lens of course, but it's definitely faster on the 5DIII than the II.  The only time the focus was very slow was in live view mode, but through the viewfinder it was very fast.  If this was your experience with the 5DIII you may want to play around some more, even after 2 months I'm still amazed by how often the camera just nails the focus.  Especially in Servo mode with fast moving subjects, but one shot is a walk in the park.  In my mind comparing the AF between the II and III is like a joke, I feel like the 5DII might as well not even have AF after using the III. 

I wouldn't be too discouraged, it may just be something minor.

I wouldn't say the 5D2 AF is necessarily a joke when talking one shot center point. Indoors in a bright kitchen at night 5D3 did have a quite better hit rate than 5D2 with a 24 1.4 at 1.4 in two tests. But in a super dark room at night they basically had the same hit rate, 5D3 not better at all, both missed about 25% of the time by a fair degree, the absolutely 100% dead on rate was some deal lower than that, very tricky subjects and conditions though.

Overall the 5D3 is solid for one shot, sometimes noticeably better other times about the same rarely a trace worse than 5D2.

The 7D is the one that gets dusted by both for super low DOF fast aperture one-shot accuracy. Both my 5D2 and 5D3 easily beat it. 5D3 has best one shot out of 20D,40D,50D,7D for sure and better than 5D2 also, although only in some circumstances is the difference to any noticeably degree.

The 7D and 5D3 can drive AI Servo on 300 2.8 quite a bit faster than the 5D2.

I actually find the 7D, for soccer, so far, doing worse than the 5D2, once by quite a lot. It seems like the 5D3 will be the best, although the 5D2 can actually track quite well at times so long as the players are not really close and moving in certain ways (I also find my 5D2 does soccer radically better when the hidden AF assists are turned on, if you leave them off, then it suddenly does no better than an xxD at best in my experience; when players are not too close the 5D2 can almost do soccer as well as 1D2, when they are very close and moving fast then it seemed to get beaten by the 1D2 for sure) and I did notice the 5D3 do a few super weird things, like tracking a goalie slowly jogging out to toss out the ball with AF points kept totally on the goalie the whole time and a few times for one frame it suddenly grabbed the background stands at least 40' behind before jumping back perfectly on track the next frame, there was absolutely zero reason for it to have done that, very, very odd. It also once slightly missed initial focus but then instead of correct properly it someone jumped to like 5' in front of me to grab a railing only fractionally in the bottom of the frame and not even near any AF point.  Sometimes it would slightly lag behind or jump ahead of a player too, although mostly the frames were still usable if not really quite what they should be but then again with the other cameras those misses were usually enough to make the frame unusable. When it did suddenly jump way out of wack the next frame was always perfect, with the others sometimes the next frame would be a touch off still.

I really need more time with all of them for soccer though to really say, lighting can make a huge difference and the shooting circumstances and lenses were not always the same so far. And one game is hardly time to fiddle with all the settings. I basically just left it on default soccer mode.

7D seemed pretty decent for surfing though.

Sometimes the 5D3 doesn't really seem to AF any better than the 5D2 although other times it does (talking about keeping AF to center point, certainly if you go away from center point then it's much better 90% of the time). It seems to AF better than the 7D and xxD. So I'm pretty sure it will be the best of all the non-1 series, with the 5D2 for many situations the next best. How much better overall than the 5D2 I can't quite say yet. Sometimes it has seemed to do quite noticeably better, other times just barely matching the 5D2 (but given that I have yet to hit any circumstance with the 5D2 seeming to ever do noticeably better than the 5D3 and I have sometimes hit upon the reverse, it seems clear the 5D3 is better, hard to say how much yet though).

Interestingly, it was in the most brutal lighting and subjects of all where the 5D2 seemed to give the 5D3 a run for it's money with 24mm 1.4 shooting. The 7D did way worse in that situation than either.

In low because it's indoors but a well lit room nonetheless the 5D3 seemed to pull a fair amount ahead of the 5D2 with 24mm 1.4 shooting. In this case 5D3 was kind and then 5D2 next but noticeably behind and then behind the 5D2 were 7D and xxD at the back of the pack. So with somewhat better but still night indoor lighting the 5D3 pulled ahead but not at all when the lighting was truly abysmal indoor type.

Both those tests were center point only.

5D2 outer points fail to lock on many subjects which can be annoying, 5D3 ones tend to lock. Having compared accuracy when both lock yet though. My feeling was the 5D2 and 7D had a bit more accuracy when the outers locked than the 20D,30D,40D,50D although the 40D,50,7D would lock much more easily, especially the 7D, than the 5D2 outer points.

Need to use it a fair amount more to really say.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 08:49:17 PM by LetTheRightLensIn »

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #104 on: June 01, 2012, 01:55:14 AM »