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Author Topic: Canon Announces EOS 60Da for Astrophotography  (Read 15135 times)

Marsu42

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60Da for Astrophotography
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2012, 09:58:27 AM »
Moreover, the EOS 60Da’s Live View mode is equipped with a Silent Shooting feature that eliminates shutter-induced vibration for maximum camera stability when the camera is mounted to a telescope or super-telephoto EF lens.

Enhanced noise reduction on the EOS 60Da sensor offers photographers the ability to experiment with the wide array of ISO settings and increased ISO speeds up to 6400 expandable to 12800.

I don't get the enhancement - enhancement over the 60d or 20da? If this silent shooting mode the same one as on the vanilla 60d it's not exactly silent say in comparison to a Nikon d7000. And I can do stronger "enhanced noise reduction" on raw images in postprocessing, too - what could an in-camera version improve, or is this esp. about bulb nr?

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60Da for Astrophotography
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2012, 09:58:27 AM »

awinphoto

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60Da for Astrophotography
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2012, 10:32:58 AM »
Does this mean no 70D or 7d2 any time soon?   :o Lol.  I dont shoot much astorphotography, so dont jump all over me, i'm genuinely interested...  What other differences are there to the 60Da are there from the 60D other than the change to the infra-red filter?  Also what real world differences would the difference be between the two, especially if one was to shoot the two cameras seemingly side by side (in theory since no one has the new camera yet)...  Just curious. 
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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60Da for Astrophotography
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2012, 10:39:28 AM »
Wow this is the first thing I've seen Canon release that there has been no mention of on this site.  Looks like I'll be adding a new body sooner than I thought.
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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60Da for Astrophotography
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2012, 10:54:05 AM »
Hrm... I am not quite sure I see the point in this body.....

Ok, I admit I am still pretty new to astrophotography so maybe someone more experienced can correct me, but I see a couple problems here.

(1) The built in filter really limits what you can do.  You can always slap different filters on the front to change what wavelengths you see, but this body locks you into one particular type of shot.
(2) The camera still includes a CFA, so the dyes in that are going to screw with whatever you see anyway.
(3) While the A/C adapter helps (wow astro photography can suck batteries dry), they are not including a cooling kit of any type, which will limit its usefulness

I actually have a bad feeling about this.  Half baked products like this can serve as marketing examples of 'see, there is no market for this, we tried and it didn't work!'.  Kinda reminds me of, a few decades ago, various game companies trying to develop games for girls.. they would produce 1 or 2 half assed titles, point to them saying 'these games we made for girls did not sell well, see, there is no market after all!'.. so the product became a self fulfilling prophecy.

So while I applaud Canon for at least trying to reach out to the niche... I suspect that it will not go all that well (unless those 'sensor enhancements' are something significant) and it will be held up as an internal example of why they shouldn't develop niche products.. which decreases the chances of them ever releasing more interesting variants of their bodies... (ok, I admit, that is still me dreaming of Canon releasing an official B&W body, which would rock for astrophotography)

preppyak

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60Da for Astrophotography
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2012, 11:01:48 AM »
So while I applaud Canon for at least trying to reach out to the niche... I suspect that it will not go all that well (unless those 'sensor enhancements' are something significant) and it will be held up as an internal example of why they shouldn't develop niche products.. which decreases the chances of them ever releasing more interesting variants of their bodies... (ok, I admit, that is still me dreaming of Canon releasing an official B&W body, which would rock for astrophotography)
It's not like they have never done this before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_20D#EOS_20Da

My guess is they left elements of the 60D in so it could be theoretically used as a regular camera and an astro camera...expanding the market a bit, but, only time will tell for that.  Since they discontinued the 20Da pretty quickly, I'd say if this one doesn't sell well, then they'll probably avoid that niche.

Neeneko

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60Da for Astrophotography
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2012, 11:28:11 AM »
My guess is they left elements of the 60D in so it could be theoretically used as a regular camera and an astro camera...expanding the market a bit, but, only time will tell for that.  Since they discontinued the 20Da pretty quickly, I'd say if this one doesn't sell well, then they'll probably avoid that niche.

*nod* I was actually thinking of the 20Da and how it became an example of 'see, there is no market for this'.

Sad thing is, if Canon actually produced an astro DSLR and stuck with it, they could easily crush the rest of the market.  Dedicated astro cameras tend to be overpriced and under powered, a lot of people just use converted DSLRs and only go dedicated if they want to play with monochrome+filters, which is a space DSLRs have completely left at this point (grrrr).

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60Da for Astrophotography
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2012, 12:04:21 PM »
Lifepixel offers hydrogen alpha conversion of DSLRs, I wonder if a modified 60D from them will be identical as a 60Da from Canon? http://shop.lifepixel.com/4-Convert-your-digital-camera-to-astrophotography-Hydrogen-Alpha-c16/

Beyond that, Canon releases special camera versions every so often, like last year with the 7D SV - barcode scanning capabilities and modified firmware to meet the mass portrait industry. Not sure if they sold any, though.

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60Da for Astrophotography
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2012, 12:04:21 PM »

Marsu42

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60Da for Astrophotography
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2012, 12:07:14 PM »
Sad thing is, if Canon actually produced an astro DSLR and stuck with it, they could easily crush the rest of the market.

Maybe they are doing just that with the 60da? If you forget about the marketing hype, this seems like a regular 60d with customized firmware and missing ir filter - so leaving out something while increasing the price seems pretty smart and Canon-like to me :-p ... and since it's so near the 60d it should be pretty easy to produce, though maybe few dealers will have it in stock.

Neeneko

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60Da for Astrophotography
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2012, 12:14:08 PM »
Maybe they are doing just that with the 60da? If you forget about the marketing hype, this seems like a regular 60d with customized firmware and missing ir filter - so leaving out something while increasing the price seems pretty smart and Canon-like to me :-p ... and since it's so near the 60d it should be pretty easy to produce, though maybe few dealers will have it in stock.

Meh, this might make a dent, but I would not call it market-crushing.  A body like this is not going to take on the dedicated monochrome astrophotography cameras, it will not even take on the colour ones since you are stuck with hydrogen-alpha.

IronMike

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60Da for Astrophotography
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2012, 12:30:59 PM »
Moreover, the EOS 60Da’s Live View mode is equipped with a Silent Shooting feature that eliminates shutter-induced vibration for maximum camera stability when the camera is mounted to a telescope or super-telephoto EF lens.

Enhanced noise reduction on the EOS 60Da sensor offers photographers the ability to experiment with the wide array of ISO settings and increased ISO speeds up to 6400 expandable to 12800.

I don't get the enhancement - enhancement over the 60d or 20da? If this silent shooting mode the same one as on the vanilla 60d it's not exactly silent say in comparison to a Nikon d7000.

Actually, this probably refers to the electronic first curtain that many canon cameras use when shooting in "Live View" mode. It's not necessarily any quieter, but it drastically reduces the vibration when taking a shot and is ideal for use at extreme magnifications (like in microscopy or astrophotography)

Here is a link:

http://krebsmicro.com/Canon_EFSC/index.html

(I'm not affiliated with this link in any way, but I do take photo's through microscopes...)

Mike

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60Da for Astrophotography
« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2012, 01:12:06 PM »
Ok, I admit I am still pretty new to astrophotography so maybe someone more experienced can correct me, but I see a couple problems here.

(1) The built in filter really limits what you can do.  You can always slap different filters on the front to change what wavelengths you see, but this body locks you into one particular type of shot.

I don't think you're understanding the "built in filter" and what it does.  Actually, ALL dSLRs have an IR filter to produce "normal" looking skin tones.  Without an IR filter, you would get very strange looking photos of people (and many subjects for that matter).  Based on my interpretation of the 60DA, it appears as if some type of IR filter still exists, it just has been severely weakened.

But yes, you are correct, this certainly limits what you can shoot.  But then again - most astrophotographers looking for breathtaking night-sky photos are not concerned about shooting portraits the next day with the same body.  This is the reality of serious astrophotography.  See more below...

http://www.lifepixel.com/tutorials/infrared-diy-tutorials/canon-5d

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/cameras/canon_5d2_infra-red.html

I actually have a bad feeling about this.  Half baked products like this can serve as marketing examples of 'see, there is no market for this, we tried and it didn't work!'.

I don't see this as half-baked at all.  I see this as Canon attempting to satisfy (and possibly expand) what is seen as a very niche/limited market.  Hence the quiet launch - this isn't supposed to be some mind-blowing dSLR that destroys the market.  It's meant for astro-photo dorks like me, who can appreciate the offering of a camera body with a sensor that has limited IR filtering. 

Heck, Canon is probably one of the only camera manufacturers that can afford to offer a specialty body like this.  I, personally, thank them for doing so.  I get a custom IR camera body without having to mod an old 5D2 and void the warranty.  A specialty astrophotography camera that still gets full warranty coverage?  That's a win-win to me.

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60Da for Astrophotography
« Reply #41 on: April 03, 2012, 02:22:51 PM »
The "safe" modification for astrophotography is replacing the standard IR cut filter with one with a much sharper response. The standard filter has a gradual response and attenuates deep reds strongly, where the H-alpha and SII wavelengths lie. The typical modification replaces this with one that has a much sharper cutoff, passing the deep reds, but still cutting IR. You generally don't want IR as it often has a different focus point for optics not corrected for it, which is practically almost every lens. That causes fuzzy stars and can increase the level of otherwise dark areas. I would assume Canon have gone this route, as you can use ordinary photographic lenses to image without additional filters. If you want an IR camera, this is not for you.

The other option of removing the IR block filter totally would not give good results unless you use additional filters.
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Neeneko

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60Da for Astrophotography
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2012, 02:51:13 PM »

I don't think you're understanding the "built in filter" and what it does.  Actually, ALL dSLRs have an IR filter to produce "normal" looking skin tones.  Without an IR filter, you would get very strange looking photos of people (and many subjects for that matter).  Based on my interpretation of the 60DA, it appears as if some type of IR filter still exists, it just has been severely weakened.

I probably should have worded it better.  I was comparing the described cut filter to a modified DSLR with a piece of optical glass in place of the filter.  If you look through any telescope catalog there are a wide range of filters designed look at different things, and with a clear internal filter you can switch between them.  With this body you are stuck with a hydrogen alpha... so no 0III, no UV, no LRGB, no hydrogen beta.. etc.

So for such a niche product it strikes me as very limited.  Though as you point out, it keeps its warranty which is nice.

Still, what I would really like to see is someone like Canon produce a body that can compete with Orion's StarShoot... something that can work unteathered and have better resolution would be really sweet.

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60Da for Astrophotography
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2012, 02:51:13 PM »

aldvan

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60Da for Astrophotography
« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2012, 03:39:46 PM »
Too sad that I just sold my Meade LX200, due to light pollution from my point of obdservation... :-(

epsiloneri

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60Da for Astrophotography
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2012, 07:24:45 PM »
Too sad that I just sold my Meade LX200, due to light pollution from my point of obdservation... :-(
A good way to fight light pollution is to use narrow-band nebula filters, such as H alpha. You'd be amazed the kind of astrophotography you can do from urban areas using OIII, H alpha and SII narrowband filters. A dedicated CCD is probably a better option for this purpose than the 60Da, though.

Edit: Thinking about it, they should have put the OIII, H alpha, and SII narrowband filters in a Bayer pattern on the 60Da, instead of the normal R, G, B.  :P
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 07:49:50 PM by epsiloneri »

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60Da for Astrophotography
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2012, 07:24:45 PM »