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Author Topic: Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800  (Read 26893 times)

psolberg

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Re: Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #60 on: April 07, 2012, 07:54:32 PM »
This all about our priorities not "what canon/nikon could do" and about our personal standards in of image quality. It is funny that we'd call 36MP unpractical and then turn and pretend ISO51K is practical and suddently everybody is shooting at night. Practical for who?. Low light is often, crappy light and I'd much rather have GOOD controlled beautiful soft light than crappy light whenever I can get it. As many have said, this isn't "dark-tography" it is photography. Therefore as admirable as the 5DmkIII, or even teh superior D4 and 1DX look on paper, the reality is that just as you question the need for 36 or 50MP, one may question the need to shoot at ISO 52K. The number of people that NEED that high ISO is likely as many as those that NEED 36MP. I think both cameras have different people in mind but just as focusing on resolution is not the best way to evaluate a camera, focusing on low light isn't any better. This post by Canon+Nikon shooter Scott Bourne puts it very elegantly

http://photofocus.com/2012/03/27/photographic-religions-the-religion-of-low-light/

However, I do see many that desire to have that safely net of being able to shoot at really high ISOs regardless and those that wish for that unparalleled resolution of the D800. Who's to say they are wrong?. But the point of versatility isn't as black and white as you paint it. The fact you have the option to resample down to 22MP is in fact versatility and practicality at work. Many argued the 5DmII was more versatile and practical than the D700 because it could:
-downscale to control noise
-when noise wasn't a problem, you got 21MP worth of detail.
-increased cropping flexibility.
-4 fps was plenty for most people (vs 8fps on the D800)

Were they wrong? I don't think so and I think this applies to the D800 today. So I just don't see 36MP being an issue in any way and in fact IS a plus for versatility and practicality given the image quality so far has been praised even by pixel peepers: http://diglloyd.com/

Ultimately, as much as I'd have like to see canon have the best overall camera, I think for the majority of people, it really isn't any better than the D800 and in fact image quality wise, it will often be behind. HOWEVER, I'll 100% agree with those that have said that SPEED is their priority and why they justify the 5DIII that way. How many people actually NEED 6fps or even 8fps (D700) or even upwards of 10fps with the D4/1DX? I think that minority crowd is already well served.

Let's not kid ourselves. I think once canon makes their own 30-40MP body (and it WILL HAPPEN), big resolution will once again magically become "practical" and all the arguments for the D800 will apply equally. Thank Nikon for showing how much a 36MP sensor could kick ass and all but made the naysayers eat crow in large quantities. Daring steps like these that distrupt the market is good for everybody and Nikon should be praised since it means others, including Canon, will follow.

Quote
To be fair, both sides have switched ideologies. All of the sudden the Nikon guys are all about the megapixels, and the Canon guys are all about low-light performance

Exactly. I've said it before, 36MP in 2012 is the "21MP of 2008". 21MP was the state of the art a few years ago. that has changed. Technology simply advanced and we're flying higher now. But to be fair, it could have been really crappy 36MP. I think what has caused the resurgence of BIG MP = win is simply the fact the sensor is really really good.

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Re: Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #60 on: April 07, 2012, 07:54:32 PM »

gecko

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Re: Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #61 on: April 07, 2012, 09:00:06 PM »
Lloyd Chambers is saying the D800 is as good as the Leica S2 for IQ.  :o

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Dylan

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Re: Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #62 on: April 07, 2012, 09:31:03 PM »
First off, if you were a landscape/fashion photographer (or anyone that would consistantly need 36mp) then I wouldn't be arguing with you because you would be shooting at realtively low ISO numbers in the first place. You were the one bragging about the low light capability of this camera which is what most wedding photographers/average shoots would benefit from. You prefer to have good controlled light? Join the club! I'm fully aware that Nikon stated this is a new line geared towards a specific market, but most peole are buying the D800 with the intention of resizing their images to get equal low light performance of the 5D3. You lost me when you said "the reality is that just as you question the need for 36 or 50MP, one may question the need to shoot at ISO 52K". My initial argument was that there is a price to pay for getting equal or similar low light performance, and that's HDD storage. If storage wasn't a concern for me then I would much rather have more mp! Why would someone care to have a sensor that can achieve super high ISO's? Because a better sensor doesn't do anything but make your images look better (not at 52k) and certainly doesn't effect the amount of pictures I can take on a card. Also, I don't know where you're hearing 52k ISO is practical, because all I've heard is to use it in an emergency. Point is, I personally feel that 22mp is more than enough for practically everyone's needs. It's overall a better choice unless you choose to waste 14mp to achieve similar performance of the 5D3 or need the mp.

jaduffy007

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Re: Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #63 on: April 07, 2012, 11:11:19 PM »
Sigh.  I guess running a site doesn't require you to be accurate or objective.  D800 "falls apart" at iso800?  Absurd comment.  CameraLabs comparing jpegs, not RAW images merely reveals Canon's new internal jpeg engine attributes more than anything else.  Decent argument of the pros and cons can be made.  Downsample D800 to 20MP and compare like dpreview and DxoMark to get a fair comparison.  Or read Lloyd Chamber's latest reviews of the cameras. Then again, ANYONE who would state that the D800 "falls apart at iso800" clearly isn't interested in fairness or accuracy...CR is a waste of bandwidth unless you need a dosage of brand war cheerleading.  Integrity is a rare commodity these days.




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<strong>Another ISO comparison<br />


</strong>The 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 has brought about a ton of discussion in regards to the philosophies of both Canon and Nikon. I’m not sure the cameras can be compared head to head fairly. I have shot with the 5D Mark III and I’m working on my impressions of it, I have yet to get my hands on a Nikon D800 for any length of time. Though I do plan to spend the weekend with a Nikon D4 that was recently acquired and I will compare it to the 5D Mark III, since they’re in the same megapixel range. What’s a guy to do while he waits for a 1D X?</p>
<p><strong>Camera Labs Test </strong><br />


Gordon Laing from CameraLabs has continued his extensive testing of the 5D Mark III, and has provided a good ISO comparison between it and the Nikon D800. As far as ISO goes, it’s not even close, the Nikon D800 starts to fall apart at about ISO 800. A lot has been said about the 5D Mark III and how much of an improvement it is over the 5D Mark II in the ISO department, and I think it’s clear the 5D Mark III starts to separate around ISO 1600.</p>
<p>Be sure to check out the results at Camera Labs.</p>
<p><strong>ISO Comparison: <a href="http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_EOS_5D_Mark_III/high_ISO_noise.shtml" target="_blank">5D Mark III vs 5D Mark II</a> | <a href="http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_EOS_5D_Mark_III/Canon_5D3_vs_Nikon_D800_noise.shtml" target="_blank">5D Mark III vs Nikon D800</a></strong></p>
<p>I’m waiting to see some good visual tests in dynamic range between the 5D Mark III and D800.</p>
<p><strong>5D Mark III Stock<br />


</strong>From what I have seen, Amazon & B&H seem to have had the most stock of the 5D Mark III. B&H and Adorama will be observing Passover between April 6 – April 15, so nothing will be shipping. Amazon is expecting new stock on April 7, 2012.</p>
<p><strong><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007FGYZFI/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=canorumo-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B007FGYZFI" target="_blank">5D Mark III at Amazon for $3499</a> also <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/847545-REG/Canon_5260A002_EOS_5D_Mark_III.html/BI/2466/KBID/3296" target="_blank">B&H</a> and <a href="http://www.adorama.com/ICA5DM3.html?kbid=64393" target="_blank">Adorama</a>.</strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>


psolberg

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Re: Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #64 on: April 08, 2012, 08:33:01 AM »
Lloyd Chambers is saying the D800 is as good as the Leica S2 for IQ.  :o

I know! and all for a mere $3000 USD! I was really expecting the Leica to be quite ahead but it seems the gap has closed.

I have a LOT of respect for the man's shooting technique and after reading his public articles, he was simply blown away by the D800 to a point that I have never seen him do for any other camera. If anybody can get every pixel out of a camera, it is that guy.

Barnie

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Re: Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #65 on: April 10, 2012, 06:41:54 AM »
Hi folks,

could anybody tell me why this test is done with 24-105 against 24-70?

I would expect a test 24-70 (I / II) vs. 24-70.

anthony11

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Re: Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #66 on: April 10, 2012, 12:31:19 PM »
If you have the time to get properly exposed pictures in the camera
Quote
There, fixed that for you.

Snobbery about nailing exposure in-camera is great for those who shoot rocks, trees, and patient adults in a studio.  For the rest of us, it's just a waste of time and karma.

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Re: Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #66 on: April 10, 2012, 12:31:19 PM »

briansquibb

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Re: Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #67 on: April 10, 2012, 01:35:29 PM »
Do we need a large hammer to nail exposure :o

 ;D

awinphoto

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Re: Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #68 on: April 10, 2012, 03:08:09 PM »
If you have the time to get properly exposed pictures in the camera
Quote
There, fixed that for you.

Snobbery about nailing exposure in-camera is great for those who shoot rocks, trees, and patient adults in a studio.  For the rest of us, it's just a waste of time and karma.

understand your incamera meter or use an external meter and you can nail exposure in seconds...  then again if shooting and hoping to nail exposure in post is your thing, by all means   ;D ;D ;D
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smirkypants

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Re: Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #69 on: April 16, 2012, 08:58:57 AM »
Ok. I have been out shooting with the D800 and the 5D3 for the last 4 days. Primarily I've been shooting sports, but I've also been shooting social shots on the sidelines, some random scenes on the beach, and some street stuff. Here are my impressions.

First, they are both fantastic cameras and you really can't go wrong choosing one or the other. All the fanboys on one side or another really need to just shut up and stop hurling feces just because they have a certain brand allegiance. They both work great. They both produce fantastic shots. There are a couple of key differences, though.

First, if you really need to crop, the d800 crushes. I set the camera to 1.2 crop mode and this gave me 25MP files with a "free" 1.2x teleconverter equivalent with no degradation in light or image quality. This is HUGE. I love it. I really really love it. I am seriously thinking of keeping the camera in this mode 99% of the time and only taking it off when I want to take extra wide angle shots... which isn't often. And though it shoots only 5 fps in this mode, the camera does not feel sluggish. It's actually quite responsive. I shot mostly with a 200-400/f4 lens handheld and I was in love with my results.

But. Personally I find the image quality of the files produced by the 5D3 superior. I actually liked the look of the shots produced with a vastly inferior 100-400L better. And it just goes without saying that the files I produce with the 5D3 + 70-200/f2.8 @ 200mm just demolishes those with the d800 + 200-400/f4 @ 200mm. Mind you, the lens comparison isn't really fair given that the Nikon is a super tele, but it's what I had to compare.

In summary, love BOTH cameras. Love them. Both are great. For weddings/events I really do think the 5D3 has the d800 beat. On the other hand, if you're looking to shoot really long or really wide, I'd take the d800 for sure. That cropping power is killer.

Just my 2 pesos.

PhilDrinkwater

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Re: Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #70 on: April 16, 2012, 11:24:28 AM »
Ok. I have been out shooting with the D800 and the 5D3 for the last 4 days. Primarily I've been shooting sports, but I've also been shooting social shots on the sidelines, some random scenes on the beach, and some street stuff. Here are my impressions.

First, they are both fantastic cameras and you really can't go wrong choosing one or the other. All the fanboys on one side or another really need to just shut up and stop hurling feces just because they have a certain brand allegiance. They both work great. They both produce fantastic shots. There are a couple of key differences, though.

First, if you really need to crop, the d800 crushes. I set the camera to 1.2 crop mode and this gave me 25MP files with a "free" 1.2x teleconverter equivalent with no degradation in light or image quality. This is HUGE. I love it. I really really love it. I am seriously thinking of keeping the camera in this mode 99% of the time and only taking it off when I want to take extra wide angle shots... which isn't often. And though it shoots only 5 fps in this mode, the camera does not feel sluggish. It's actually quite responsive. I shot mostly with a 200-400/f4 lens handheld and I was in love with my results.

But. Personally I find the image quality of the files produced by the 5D3 superior. I actually liked the look of the shots produced with a vastly inferior 100-400L better. And it just goes without saying that the files I produce with the 5D3 + 70-200/f2.8 @ 200mm just demolishes those with the d800 + 200-400/f4 @ 200mm. Mind you, the lens comparison isn't really fair given that the Nikon is a super tele, but it's what I had to compare.

In summary, love BOTH cameras. Love them. Both are great. For weddings/events I really do think the 5D3 has the d800 beat. On the other hand, if you're looking to shoot really long or really wide, I'd take the d800 for sure. That cropping power is killer.

Just my 2 pesos.

Thanks for a sensible review. I agree with your overriding point - both cameras are fantastic!

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #71 on: April 16, 2012, 02:02:58 PM »
All the fanboys on one side or another really need to just shut up and stop hurling feces just because they have a certain brand allegiance. ...

...I'd take the d800 for sure.  That cropping power is killer.

Canon rulz and Nikon droolz.  Seriously, if you need to crop that much, you're either a cheapskate or lazy - so get more money for a longer lens or get off your @$$ and move closer to your subject. 

Ok, I'm not serious at all.   :P

Seriously (and I mean it, this time), thanks for the comparative impressions!   :D
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smirkypants

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Re: Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #72 on: April 16, 2012, 02:19:20 PM »

Canon rulz and Nikon droolz.  Seriously, if you need to crop that much, you're either a cheapskate or lazy - so get more money for a longer lens or get off your @$$ and move closer to your subject. 

Ok, I'm not serious at all.   :P

Seriously (and I mean it, this time), thanks for the comparative impressions!   :D

I was hauling $15,000 worth of gear between my Nikon & Canon!!! The Nikon 200-400 f4 is the hugest thing that I can handhold and I will never not handhold. I used it through 4 matches of the US Open of Polo yesterday. My arms hurt today!

As far as moving closer... and what, get run over by a 2000 pound beast? I already have the rent-a-cops hassling me all the time for not standing next to all of the other photographers with their 400/2.8s on a pole. A fellow tog shot this of me.

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Re: Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #72 on: April 16, 2012, 02:19:20 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #73 on: April 16, 2012, 02:25:00 PM »
Smirkypants, clearly you have no problem getting off your @$$.   :P  I have one question - how the heck do you keep your white pants so clean under those conditions?   ;)

EDIT:  Nevermind, the pants must be totally blown out in the shot, probably was a Canon tog that shot it, right?  That horrible lack of DR always leads to blown highlights, you know...
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smirkypants

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Re: Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #74 on: April 16, 2012, 02:27:57 PM »
Smirkypants, clearly you have no problem getting off your @$$.   :P  I have one question - how the heck do you keep your white pants so clean under those conditions?   ;)
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Re: Canon 5D Mark III vs Nikon D800
« Reply #74 on: April 16, 2012, 02:27:57 PM »