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Author Topic: Canon 5D3E?  (Read 1924 times)

mrmarks

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Canon 5D3E?
« on: April 05, 2012, 11:43:48 AM »
It will be nice if Canon could come up with a 5D3E. A less stronger AA filter will increase the sharpness and level of detail in still shots, while sharpening videos as well. Moire and false color only affects a very small number of still shots and video footages, but should the majority of still shots/video footages not affected by moire/false color suffer for the sake of a stronger AA filter? What do you guys think?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 09:59:12 PM by mrmarks »

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Canon 5D3E?
« on: April 05, 2012, 11:43:48 AM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Canon 5D3E?
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2012, 12:08:28 PM »
Most users would have a lot of issues.  You have no control of lighting outdoors, and would have to severely limit yourself.  As you get smaller pixels, it becomes more practical, which is why the D800 offers it.  The D800 already shows moire in videos, imagine the D800E.  It will be for specialist use only.
 
You can have your AA filter removed, but then, it becomes a special purpose camera and needs some extremely careful setups to minimize moire.

mrmarks

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Re: Canon 5D3E?
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2012, 12:13:27 PM »
You have no control of lighting outdoors, and would have to severely limit yourself. 

Could you explain this a little? Thanks

itsnotmeyouknow

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Re: Canon 5D3E?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2012, 01:46:35 PM »
Although its heading to Japan for repair, my Pentax 645D has no anti aliasing filter and I have no issues with moire. If I had started as a Nikon shooter 4 years ago instead of Canon, I might have been tempted by the D800e as a back up to the 645D. As it is I'm not going cross platforms

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Re: Canon 5D3E?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2012, 02:19:15 PM »
Unless I'm missing something, it isn't much to do with the light conditions, as much as having a finely detailed subject at a high enough contrast. This typically means repeating patterns.

For a time while I was in the process of modifying a 300D for IR use, I was using it without AA filter as that is part of the module with IR block filter. The occasions where moire happened were quite rare, and even if they did they were not distracting overall.

While I might not go as far as not wanting an AA filter at all, I think a sweep spot lies somewhere weaker than the one the 18MP APS-C sensor has.
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bp

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Re: Canon 5D3E?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2012, 02:39:07 PM »
Moire and false color only affects a very small number of still shots and video footings

I don't know if you've done much video with previous models, but IMHO, you may be underestimating how often moire would rear its ugly head. 

It certainly would be nice to have the option to turn it off.  But if it's an all-or-nothing decision... Frankly, in terms of video, you couldn't pay me enough to remove the 5d3 AA filter.  I've never once (in my days of shooting video with the 5d2/7D/T2i) had a paying client ask why the image wasn't any sharper - however, I HAVE had to answer "Why is the collar of his shirt doing that weird stripey pattern thing? That's really distracting".   

Granted - I'm not a high-end cinema DP, and don't pretend to be one on forums unlike many, and I'm not even strictly video-only - I'm closer to 50/50 stills and video.   The sort of shooting I do is usually for corporate online or 1080 flat panel display use (i.e. kiosks and tradeshow displays) and wedding video.  It's not sexy, but it pays the bills and my stuff is rarely intended for the big screen (hey, we can't all be Steven Spielberg).  I'll be working on an indie short in a couple weeks shot with 2 5D3's which will hopefully get some big screen showings, but for the stuff that actually pays the bills, the 5D3 video quality so far is still proving to blow them away (at least on the ONE paying project I've shot with it so far)... and never having to even worry about moire is HUGE.

That's not even mentioning the still shoots I've done with it, with fantastic image quality with plenty of crisp detail and keeper rates that are so far beyond that which I ever got with the 5D2 from the massive AF improvements...   I'm a very happy camper with the 3 - but that's just me!
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Re: Canon 5D3E?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2012, 02:52:32 PM »
I would bite.  Options are good to have.  I know of at least the following cameras which had no AA filter:

Kodak DCS Pro SLR/c, SLR/n (own)
Kodak DCS Pro 14n (own)
Nikon D800E
Ricoh GXR Mount A12
Sigma SD1/DP1/DP2 Merrill  (of course)
Fuji X-Pro 1
Leica M8/M9

Are there others?

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Re: Canon 5D3E?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2012, 02:52:32 PM »

JR

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Re: Canon 5D3E?
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2012, 07:45:11 PM »
I dont know that much about AA filter (understand the concept of course) but was wondering if anyone has the impression that Canon inserted an AA filter in the 5DmkIII (and potentially the 1DX that is stronger then what we saw in the 5DmkII or the 1DIV for example.  Again I am no expert but it just seem that way when I compare pictures from the mkiii to the mkii.

Anyone?  Am I delusional here?
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KeithR

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Re: Canon 5D3E?
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2012, 09:31:34 PM »
It will be nice if Canon could come up with a 5D3E.

Why? Has it already been concluded that the 5D Mk III isn't sharp enough?

Seeing no evidence of that myself...

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Canon 5D3E?
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2012, 09:43:14 PM »
It will be nice if Canon could come up with a 5D3E. A less stronger AA filter will increase the sharpness and level of detail in still shots, while sharpening videos as well. Moire and false color only affects a very small number of still shots and video footings, but should the majority of still shots/video footings not affected by moire/false color suffer for the sake of a stronger AA filter? What do you guys think?

Remember the 5D3 has only 20D pixel density. I don't think that is high enough for it to be safe for no AA filter. Even the D800 is pushing it IMO. I think a 5D3E might be a disaster (although removing the outer filter apparently does improve the video a little bit, oddly enough).

They might offer a toggle between full on anti-aliasing and slightly weaker aliasing for FF video though (and add a croped 1.6x 2x2 sampled video mode for better reach and for better detail if worse noise, the 2x2 should require less post AA since it's closer to the filter's 1x1 scale).
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 09:45:10 PM by LetTheRightLensIn »

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Re: Canon 5D3E?
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2012, 09:43:14 PM »