April 27, 2015, 10:08:14 AM

Author Topic: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]  (Read 15769 times)

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #105 on: January 29, 2015, 05:52:28 PM »


I believe all amplifiers with SONY are on the CMOS and with CANON are not. How will they merge that logic. Complete change of logic on one or both of vendors' proprietary  DSP (digital signal processor). In Canon that means DIGIC 7S (s - for Sony sensors).

And how have they merged Sony sensor with Canon DIGiC 6 in G7 X?

BTW: currently I've got reasons to consider all that Canon/Sony tech exchange to be [CR0] eg. never going to happen. Still there is a chance I'm wrong.

Two whole  different sensors,  in G7X it is a Sony BSI, in the SLR  cameras there are Sony Exmor

But the Canon Sony RX100 clone has a Sony Exmor chip and uses Digic.
Who says they have to use any ADC part of DIGIC?
Are we even sure the ADC is part of digic itself?

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Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #105 on: January 29, 2015, 05:52:28 PM »

Don Haines

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Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #106 on: January 29, 2015, 06:06:48 PM »


I believe all amplifiers with SONY are on the CMOS and with CANON are not. How will they merge that logic. Complete change of logic on one or both of vendors' proprietary  DSP (digital signal processor). In Canon that means DIGIC 7S (s - for Sony sensors).

And how have they merged Sony sensor with Canon DIGiC 6 in G7 X?

BTW: currently I've got reasons to consider all that Canon/Sony tech exchange to be [CR0] eg. never going to happen. Still there is a chance I'm wrong.

Two whole  different sensors,  in G7X it is a Sony BSI, in the SLR  cameras there are Sony Exmor

But the Canon Sony RX100 clone has a Sony Exmor chip and uses Digic.
Who says they have to use any ADC part of DIGIC?
Are we even sure the ADC is part of digic itself?
I was under the impression that the A/D was done on an Analog Devices chip between the sensor and the processor....
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Don Haines

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Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #107 on: January 29, 2015, 06:13:27 PM »
Why does everyone assume it is a done deal that an Exmore chip will be used?

It could be Sony fabricating a new Canon design that they are able to produce more efficiently than Canon can in-house...

It could be Sony fabricating an existing Canon design....

It could be Sony fabricating a hybrid Sony/Canon design...

It could be a pure Sony design...

It could just be a rumour....

It could be a prototype...

It could be lots of things....

We don't know. Period!
The best camera is the one in your hands

Khufu

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Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #108 on: January 29, 2015, 06:44:15 PM »
I know which, I'm just not saying...
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PureClassA

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Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #109 on: January 29, 2015, 07:23:14 PM »
I know which, I'm just not saying...

Ah so YOU are the source of the rumor mill then  ::)
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LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #110 on: January 29, 2015, 08:34:33 PM »
Why does everyone assume it is a done deal that an Exmore chip will be used?

It could be Sony fabricating a new Canon design that they are able to produce more efficiently than Canon can in-house...

It could be Sony fabricating an existing Canon design....

It could be Sony fabricating a hybrid Sony/Canon design...

It could be a pure Sony design...

It could just be a rumour....

It could be a prototype...

It could be lots of things....

We don't know. Period!

Of course, but why go to a rumor site if you don't wanna discuss things about if so and so proves to be true?

Famateur

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Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #111 on: January 29, 2015, 09:11:50 PM »
Why does everyone assume it is a done deal that an Exmore chip will be used?

It could be Sony fabricating a new Canon design that they are able to produce more efficiently than Canon can in-house...

It could be Sony fabricating an existing Canon design....

It could be Sony fabricating a hybrid Sony/Canon design...

It could be a pure Sony design...

It could just be a rumour....

It could be a prototype...

It could be lots of things....

We don't know. Period!

Of course, but why go to a rumor site if you don't wanna discuss things about if so and so proves to be true?

I think Don's comment was more directed toward tone than topic.

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Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #111 on: January 29, 2015, 09:11:50 PM »

Famateur

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Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #112 on: January 29, 2015, 09:14:16 PM »
Canon: All right. Who makes the sensor? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both take pictures, and find out who has Canon... and who has Sony.

LOL...I got a kick out of this. Very well done, Don!

Neuro: And to think, all that time it was your camera that had a canon sensor.

Wait...Does this make Neuro Princess Buttercup???  :o

Famateur

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Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #113 on: January 29, 2015, 09:16:06 PM »
Neuro NancyP: And to think, all that time it was your camera that had a canon sensor.

There, Neuro -- I fixed it for you. :P

K

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Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #114 on: January 31, 2015, 05:11:27 AM »
Not really. Canon didn't really tune for anything much. They don't have the ability to not have the curve fade down at low ISO, they are forced into it.

Also if you compare 6D to D750 then it's only like 1/4 stop better for high ISO DR, that is NOTHING. Even the D810 (which was tuned down a touch to be extra good at low ISO since the base is ISO64 instead of ISO100) is still only like 1/2 stop worse at high ISO. And the Exmor in the A7S which has base set to favor high ISO a bit, I believe has both better low ISO DR (although not by quite as much as the D810) and a tiny bit better at high ISO than the 6D at the same time.



How old is the 6D, how new is the 810 and 750?

My point is clear, Nikon doesn't deserve the over the top hype and praise for DR it receives when their cameras are technically worse than the Canon after ISO 1000. Sure, it's within a 1/4 stop which in practical terms is nothing. So again, why the big praise over Canon for DR?

At low ISO, sure - hence they make good landscape cameras. That is about it.

The general internet impression and buzz over the last couple years has been that Nikon blows away Canon on DR because of the Sony sensor. This is just not true, and has to be put into a proper context.


jeffa4444

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Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #115 on: January 31, 2015, 07:29:21 PM »
Either way: cool. Hopefully sourcing sensors will bring down the cost.

Sony's going to want a piece of the action; my guess is that it raises prices.

I'm guessing that Sony can sell Canon sensors at a profit for less than Canon can produce them. But I suppose it's a pipe dream that, if true, any of that savings shows up in MSRP.

On the other hand, I hope Canon doesn't get out of the sensor business entirely -- we need more competition.

Sony, Aptina, Toshiba, Samsung, Fuji, Foveon, etc. are all pushing innovation. I agree that more is better, but one fewer player in a component game isn't necessarily going to impact the market significantly.
Add to that list CMOSIS / TowerJazz, Onsemiconductor and a couple of Chinese companies
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c.d.embrey

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Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #116 on: February 01, 2015, 03:37:46 PM »
Sony's sensor division make very good products ... Sony's consumer camera division not so much. Think of Sony being Mercedes Benz, They make both Maybach (Sony Sensor) and Smart cars (Sony consumer cameras).

The Sony Fanbois grasp at every straw available trying to link their so-so cameras to other superior brands. Sony's consumer cameras have the very good Sony Sensor that is crippled by stupid thing like compressed raw, etc, etc. Bare Bones Software's motto is "It (still) doesn't suck." Sony's consumer camera division seems to think that people like camera software that sucks more. As long as Canon's camera software sucks less no-one (except Sony consumer camera Fanbois) really cares who makes the sensor.

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Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #116 on: February 01, 2015, 03:37:46 PM »