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Author Topic: Canon EOS C100 & C500 Coming? [CR1]  (Read 7995 times)

gene_can_sing

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Re: Canon EOS C100 & C500 Coming? [CR1]
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2012, 10:05:46 PM »
That's the beauty of the DSLR is that it's as small as you want or you can rig it up to make it huge.

I've used the FS-100 and the AF-101 and it's pretty much a rig only type deal. I've also worked on shoots where the Epic was being used and that's obviously a tripod only camera.

For myself, I shoot a lot with different rigs, but I also like the handheld look a lot; and for that, nothing beats a DSLR.

Now I can understand if you are using some Cooke PL primes, you need a heavy camera to balance out the lenses. But if you have the budget for those type of lenses, you're probably not going to be shooting on a DSLR, or even an FS-100. you're probably going to be on REDs or Alexas (which are for very specific uses)

I think for general, all around usage on a camera that you can buy (not the Epic or the Alexa, at least for my budget), the DSLR format is much better than the traditional video format.

Personally, I like the DSLR format much better than the FS-100 which I feel has weak ergonomics.

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Re: Canon EOS C100 & C500 Coming? [CR1]
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2012, 10:05:46 PM »

AG

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Re: Canon EOS C100 & C500 Coming? [CR1]
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2012, 10:07:52 PM »
That's the beauty of the DSLR is that it's as small as you want or you can rig it up to make it huge.

I've used the FS-100 and the AF-101 and it's pretty much a rig only type deal. I've also worked on shoots where the Epic was being used and that's obviously a tripod only camera.

For myself, I shoot a lot with different rigs, but I also like the handheld look a lot; and for that, nothing beats a DSLR.

Now I can understand if you are using some Cooke PL primes, you need a heavy camera to balance out the lenses. But if you have the budget for those type of lenses, you're probably not going to be shooting on a DSLR, or even an FS-100. you're probably going to be on REDs or Alexas (which are for very specific uses)

I think for general, all around usage on a camera that you can buy (not the Epic or the Alexa, at least for my budget), the DSLR format is much better than the traditional video format.

Personally, I like the DSLR format much better than the FS-100 which I feel has weak ergonomics.

+1 Agreed.
Yes, i shoot video on a DSLR.

cayenne

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Re: Canon EOS C100 & C500 Coming? [CR1]
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2012, 10:25:45 PM »
The only thing perplexing about this is how they could make a lower end c300?  What could they take out that would give it any chance of competing in the market?  5d3 resolved detail with XLR inputs?

Exactly. An un-nerfted 5dmkiii could do wonders. It still wont have the DR of the c300, but it could certainly place itself on-top of all the existing dslr's out there.

Remember, the c300's biggest selling point is it's ease of use, and the IQ right out of the camera.

If this was the case...how much would you think an "un-nerfted" 5Dmkiii cost do you think? When would you think it would make it to market?

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Canon EOS C100 & C500 Coming? [CR1]
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2012, 10:48:15 PM »
The only thing perplexing about this is how they could make a lower end c300?  What could they take out that would give it any chance of competing in the market?  5d3 resolved detail with XLR inputs?

+1

that would seem to just be a way to really insure the 5D3 stays crippled and the 5D4 becomes a non-starter all while accomplishing not much with their C500, or so it would seem

tjc320

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Re: Canon EOS C100 & C500 Coming? [CR1]
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2012, 12:34:21 AM »
I only do video, and I DON'T want the traditional Camcorder / Video style body. Those are super dated and horrible to use compared to the DSLR form factor which is GREAT.

Think of it this way, would you want to shoot stills with a lunch box style body? NO. Video and photo are no different in how you hold the camera. The DSLR form factor allows you to hand hold a camera nicely. The Lunch Box / Camcorder format requires a rig at all times. SUCKS and is super dated.

That is why the C-300 has a more DSLR form factor, because it's where everything is going.

Let me know when you get good footage from using a DSLR handheld. You need a rig no matter what, especially with a DSLR. Video and photo are both different with how you hold a camera, that is, unless you shoot video with your eye against the LCD or photos using the LCD rather than the viewfinder.

What pros want is features and it's simply not possible to fit all the needed features on a DSLR (they hardly fit on the C300)

From the day the Cinema DSLR was announced I have been saying that the DSLR form factor should be tossed out the window. I'm guessing the DLSR form factor works perfect for you so maybe the 5DMIII would be a good purchase over a C-line camera.

heron88

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Re: Canon EOS C100 & C500 Coming? [CR1]
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2012, 09:15:35 AM »
I just want to see EOSRAW come to fruition. Codec is the main thing separating Canon from the higher end companies. Hopefully, the same technology will also trickle down into next generation DSLRs. (or even be available as a firmware update for my 7d  ;D) I'm allowed to dream aren't I?

crjiro

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Re: Canon EOS C100 & C500 Coming? [CR1]
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2012, 09:35:45 AM »
i'm interested in what will be the lower-priced C500 of the two. But, we can assume the feature-set will be less then what is on the C300. This will not bode well against the FS700 but maybe more against the FS100. Look forward to the release and details.

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Re: Canon EOS C100 & C500 Coming? [CR1]
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2012, 09:35:45 AM »

Ed_5D

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Re: Canon EOS C100 & C500 Coming? [CR1]
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2012, 09:37:20 AM »
C100!! Finally Canon Raw for video!! sounds like good news... as far as it does at least 120fps @ 4K... as I posted before, a modern cinema camera without high frame rates at full quality is crippled. Even more if it's a $35.000 camera.
Nobody I know was even slightly impressed by the C300... to expensive and lacking in features, and now that the Sony FS-700 is coming it looks like the C300 should be priced at around $6000 to be a successful camera.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 09:46:53 AM by Ed_5D »

transpo1

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Re: Canon EOS C100 & C500 Coming? [CR1]
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2012, 10:21:10 AM »
It will be interesting to see what they come out with. Canon needs to take a lesson from Apple and be willing to cannibalize themselves with a lower-end 4k or 2k video camera. Anything they come out with for below 10,000 is going to eat into their c300 sales but I hope they take the plunge. It would be nice to see them take the lead from Sony in this area- they have a tremendous following from all of their DSLRs, now they just have to capitalize on that with a meaningful video offering.

gene_can_sing

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Re: Canon EOS C100 & C500 Coming? [CR1]
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2012, 10:37:28 AM »
I only do video, and I DON'T want the traditional Camcorder / Video style body. Those are super dated and horrible to use compared to the DSLR form factor which is GREAT.

Think of it this way, would you want to shoot stills with a lunch box style body? NO. Video and photo are no different in how you hold the camera. The DSLR form factor allows you to hand hold a camera nicely. The Lunch Box / Camcorder format requires a rig at all times. SUCKS and is super dated.

That is why the C-300 has a more DSLR form factor, because it's where everything is going.


Let me know when you get good footage from using a DSLR handheld. You need a rig no matter what, especially with a DSLR. Video and photo are both different with how you hold a camera, that is, unless you shoot video with your eye against the LCD or photos using the LCD rather than the viewfinder.

What pros want is features and it's simply not possible to fit all the needed features on a DSLR (they hardly fit on the C300)

From the day the Cinema DSLR was announced I have been saying that the DSLR form factor should be tossed out the window. I'm guessing the DLSR form factor works perfect for you so maybe the 5DMIII would be a good purchase over a C-line camera.


tjc320, the DSLRs are much, much better for handheld shots

Take a look at this video I directed and DP'd recently. About 70% of it was shot purely handheld. NO RIGs. Even when using the 100mm L macro, I still shot it handheld with NO RIGs.

http://www.builtbyugene.com/mov_clients/DUEL2_ColorGradeMX_0401a.mov

I shoot a LOT of handheld with no rig (a big part of my aesthetic) and it's MUCH easier on a DSLR. You can view a bunch of it on my url:

www.builtbyUgene.com 

Of course you can't fit all the features of a traditional video into a smaller body (such as ND filters, but I'd rather use a variable ND), but there are also many, many advantages to having a small body, such as good hand held (very important to me) and the stealth factor.

As for what Pros want, I'm not sure how you define "Pro", but I have been working solely in TV for over 10 years as a Director / Designer / DP  and what "Pros" want is as varied as what many hobbiest want. There is no set camera that meets the needs of everyone. But I definitely know what I want; and I don't want to go back to a lunch box body because they're much less user friendly.

I obviously don't want things to go too small (like a point and Shoot), but I feel something like the 5D body is a good size. Not too big and not too small. The Sony FS-100 is a DISASTER in terms of interface. It's too big and has too many buttons. You don't need a button for everything, as Sony seems to think. It's much smarter to just consolidate all those buttons into a few and just design a smart interface for it, kind of like what Apple does with the iPhone.

« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 01:50:48 PM by gene_can_sing »

Ed_5D

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Re: Canon EOS C100 & C500 Coming? [CR1]
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2012, 10:46:40 AM »
It will be interesting to see what they come out with. Canon needs to take a lesson from Apple and be willing to cannibalize themselves with a lower-end 4k or 2k video camera. Anything they come out with for below 10,000 is going to eat into their c300 sales but I hope they take the plunge. It would be nice to see them take the lead from Sony in this area- they have a tremendous following from all of their DSLRs, now they just have to capitalize on that with a meaningful video offering.
C300 sales? I don't know for sure if it's selling good... but I really doubt it.
As far as Apple goes... I'm not sure if it was that good for the professional market... I mean, the Mac Pro workstation line is going to be discontinued because Apple just sells iPads and iPhones right now, leaving us hopeless in windows land.

gene_can_sing

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Re: Canon EOS C100 & C500 Coming? [CR1]
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2012, 11:42:30 AM »
It will be interesting to see what they come out with. Canon needs to take a lesson from Apple and be willing to cannibalize themselves with a lower-end 4k or 2k video camera. Anything they come out with for below 10,000 is going to eat into their c300 sales but I hope they take the plunge. It would be nice to see them take the lead from Sony in this area- they have a tremendous following from all of their DSLRs, now they just have to capitalize on that with a meaningful video offering.
C300 sales? I don't know for sure if it's selling good... but I really doubt it.
As far as Apple goes... I'm not sure if it was that good for the professional market... I mean, the Mac Pro workstation line is going to be discontinued because Apple just sells iPads and iPhones right now, leaving us hopeless in windows land.

The thing is, I'm sure when Sony announced the FS-700 with true 4k and over 300 FPS slow-motion at only $9,000, many of the C-300 backorders were cancelled. In effect, Sony cannibalized themselves in a huge way. The FS-700 is a gigantic step in affordable, high quality, large sensor video.

Canon needs to do the same. The 4K EOS needs to be really, really strong to compete against Sony. The C-300 was very conservative / underspec'd and it's going to get it's A$$ handed to it by Sony. I'm very happy about Canon getting wrecked by Sony, because this is a wake up call to them to start making good products instead of just trying to milk all the video people like they have been.

Competition is good, and Sony's cannibalization of themselves is hopefully a sign of good things to come.

As for Apple, they have gone too consumer and it's hurting their Pro Market. I certainly hope they don't discontinue the towers, otherwise, what am I going to use? I need all the power I can get from a computer and can't do my stuff on a laptop or an iMac.

HurtinMinorKey

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Re: Canon EOS C100 & C500 Coming? [CR1]
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2012, 11:46:29 AM »
The only thing perplexing about this is how they could make a lower end c300?  What could they take out that would give it any chance of competing in the market?  5d3 resolved detail with XLR inputs?

Exactly. An un-nerfted 5dmkiii could do wonders. It still wont have the DR of the c300, but it could certainly place itself on-top of all the existing dslr's out there.

Remember, the c300's biggest selling point is it's ease of use, and the IQ right out of the camera.

If this was the case...how much would you think an "un-nerfted" 5Dmkiii cost do you think? When would you think it would make it to market?
$6000, body only.

Give it the 5d3 censor, dual digi5 processors, in a 1dX body, and we have a 4k DSLR, or a high bit depth 2k camera.

To use car anthologies:

C DSLR/c500= Mustang Cobra
c300= Porsche
c100= F1


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Re: Canon EOS C100 & C500 Coming? [CR1]
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2012, 11:46:29 AM »

transpo1

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Re: Canon EOS C100 & C500 Coming? [CR1]
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2012, 12:26:36 PM »
It will be interesting to see what they come out with. Canon needs to take a lesson from Apple and be willing to cannibalize themselves with a lower-end 4k or 2k video camera. Anything they come out with for below 10,000 is going to eat into their c300 sales but I hope they take the plunge. It would be nice to see them take the lead from Sony in this area- they have a tremendous following from all of their DSLRs, now they just have to capitalize on that with a meaningful video offering.
C300 sales? I don't know for sure if it's selling good... but I really doubt it.
As far as Apple goes... I'm not sure if it was that good for the professional market... I mean, the Mac Pro workstation line is going to be discontinued because Apple just sells iPads and iPhones right now, leaving us hopeless in windows land.

The thing is, I'm sure when Sony announced the FS-700 with true 4k and over 300 FPS slow-motion at only $9,000, many of the C-300 backorders were cancelled. In effect, Sony cannibalized themselves in a huge way. The FS-700 is a gigantic step in affordable, high quality, large sensor video.

Canon needs to do the same. The 4K EOS needs to be really, really strong to compete against Sony. The C-300 was very conservative / underspec'd and it's going to get it's A$$ handed to it by Sony. I'm very happy about Canon getting wrecked by Sony, because this is a wake up call to them to start making good products instead of just trying to milk all the video people like they have been.

Competition is good, and Sony's cannibalization of themselves is hopefully a sign of good things to come.

As for Apple, they have gone too consumer and it's hurting their Pro Market. I certainly hope they don't discontinue the towers, otherwise, what am I going to use? I need all the power I can get from a computer and can't do my stuff on a laptop or an iMac.

Definitely. Sony realized they needed to cannibalize their own higher-end cameras to be competitive. The lesson from Apple is that when the iPhone came out, they went with it even though they knew it would eat into their iPod sales- that's progress, innovation, and progress for the consumer.

You're right- competition is good and I hope Canon can wake up to the challenge in the video area. Their 4K offering needs to be very strong indeed and they can't worry about how it will effect their C300 product.

Guess we'll see next week!

unadog

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Re: Canon EOS C100 & C500 Coming? [CR1]
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2012, 12:55:07 PM »
I was driving over the weekend and listened to a Canon Cinema talk.

They rushed the C300 and knew it. But their goal was 4K, and they made sure the front end was 4K, along with the lenses. The back end wasn't ready, so they dropped down to 8 bit, etc on the output.

Sounds like with the Raw Codec, they are ready for full 4K?  Maybe they will take the C300 in full trade in a C100 or C500?  Better than crippling the lower end unit to keep a place for the lower end box (C100 or C500?)

Video is moving way too fast for that conservative game! Let's hope.

I had a 5D3 and a D800E on preorder (professional still photog.) Think I'm going to sit back for 3 months & see what shakes out.

Michael

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Re: Canon EOS C100 & C500 Coming? [CR1]
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2012, 12:55:07 PM »