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Author Topic: 5DIII same ISO performance as 5DII  (Read 8956 times)

Tcapp

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Re: 5DIII same ISO performance as 5DII
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2012, 03:46:14 AM »
There is only a .5 to 1 stop improvement over the 5D2.


I love it when people say "ONLY a stop better".

Its TWICE as good. How is that "only"? If my paycheck was one stop improved id be pretty damn happy. If my car's gas mileage was one stop better i'd be jumping for joy. If I had an extra stop down below I'd scare some ladies away.

Anyway, rant over. prestonpalmer, this rant was NOT directed at you, just at people in general who are so ungrateful for what amazing technology we have before us.


LOL.  I agree completely.  As a wedding photographer I am completely stoked about the improvement.  If I can get away with using 6400 iso rather than the 3200 I don't exceed with my 5D2, I couldn't be happier!  Especially with the new AF and Dual Card slot.  Its a perfect wedding photography camera as far as I am concerned.  And with regard to Mega Pixels.  PLEASE no more than 22MP.  That's PLENTY!


Dude. You are my long lost twin.  I do weddings as well, and I never went above 3200 on the 5d2 either. Eventually, more MP will be good, when computer processors double in speed and hardrive price per TB is cut in half too. And maybe when blu-ray is as mainstream as DVD for delivery to clients.


Pushing my 5D3 to 6400 still scares the crap out of me.  I just need to post process a few more weddings with it to build my confidence :)  Oh, and LR 4.1 OFFICIAL release will be a big deciding factor as well.  And as of this year, I am DONE with DVD's.  Now Digital Negatives (if they buy them) are delivered on these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820235047

With custom labeling for the client.  Auto slideshow built in as well.  I hate DL DVD's with a passion!

As far as more MP.  I don't see clients ordering anything much bigger than 20x30.  So no real need for more MP unless you plan to do a lot of cropping.  I would prefer Canon go to a SQUARE sensor next round with a slight MP increase. see this:

http://www.canonrumors.com/2010/05/the-cmos-sensor-squared-cr2/


I don't know about square sensors... I like the 2:3 aspect ratio.

I don't know if I would use flash drives for clients... cost is about 17x higher. And they are so small the client would lose it easily. Plus, the DVD has a larger area for custom printing/engraving.

How/where do you do your custom labeling?
5DIII, 5DII, 7D, 50 1.4, 85 1.4, 70-200 2.8 IS L, 70-200 2.8 IS L II, 2x TC III, 15 Fisheye 2.8, 100 Macro 2.8, 24 1.4 L
http://www.TimothyCapp.com
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Re: 5DIII same ISO performance as 5DII
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2012, 03:46:14 AM »

Blaze

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Re: 5DIII same ISO performance as 5DII
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2012, 04:08:09 AM »

Pushing my 5D3 to 6400 still scares the crap out of me.  I just need to post process a few more weddings with it to build my confidence :)  Oh, and LR 4.1 OFFICIAL release will be a big deciding factor as well.  And as of this year, I am DONE with DVD's.  Now Digital Negatives (if they buy them) are delivered on these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820235047

With custom labeling for the client.  Auto slideshow built in as well.  I hate DL DVD's with a passion!

As far as more MP.  I don't see clients ordering anything much bigger than 20x30.  So no real need for more MP unless you plan to do a lot of cropping.  I would prefer Canon go to a SQUARE sensor next round with a slight MP increase. see this:

http://www.canonrumors.com/2010/05/the-cmos-sensor-squared-cr2/


I don't know about square sensors... I like the 2:3 aspect ratio.

I don't know if I would use flash drives for clients... cost is about 17x higher. And they are so small the client would lose it easily. Plus, the DVD has a larger area for custom printing/engraving.

How/where do you do your custom labeling?


I think square sensors would be awesome. I'm a fan of the 4x5 aspect ratio.

Compared to the cost of a shoot, a USB drive really isn't that expensive and a lot of computers don't even have optical drives these days.

prestonpalmer

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Re: 5DIII same ISO performance as 5DII
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2012, 04:19:19 AM »
I don't know about square sensors... I like the 2:3 aspect ratio.

I don't know if I would use flash drives for clients... cost is about 17x higher. And they are so small the client would lose it easily. Plus, the DVD has a larger area for custom printing/engraving.

How/where do you do your custom labeling?


The idea behind square sensor is that we crop to 2:3 aspect after the fact.  No need to decide landscape/portrait orientation when taking the photo.  I think the idea is revolutionary.  It would take a bit to get use to, but awesome after the fact.  Especially if they had 2:3 crop lines in the viewfinder!!!

Ive found that the clients simply put the USB drive on their key-ring.  And they lose the USB drive as often as they lose their car keys.  DVD's have seen their day.  And I really don't are about they cost when my clients pay an additional $1500 for image rights.  And in the long run, its cheaper than the custom DVD cases... I have a custom box for delivery of the USB drive, and the quality blows the appearance and value of a DVD out of the water.  (its apple like)  Its all about image "perceived value" remember?  Clients have been pre trained to think DVD's are worth between $15 and $20 as they buy them from the store all the time.  They have never seen a USB disk laser etched with their name, delivered in a matte black box.  The perceived value is incredible. I order the drives in 250qty bulk from China without the VERBATIM branding.  Just strait black, then I have a trophy guy here in my home town, laser on the name of the bride and groom.  Ive sold more image rights on these than you would believe... It looks REALLY sweet.  Plus, its all about sales right?  In my consultation meeting, imagine saying this to your clients...

"DVD's have seen their day.  You don't want something that going to sit on you bookshelf and collect dust, do you?  How about having your images on your key-ring, so they are with you wherever you go.  When you run into your friends and family, you can show them a quick slideshow of your favorites right there on the spot. Plus, I guarantee it for life, if you breaks, or you lose it.  Ill replace it for you, as long as you live."

Now you have just set expectations for that client. When they meet with other photographers in your city who show them DVD's they are going to think, "Those old things"  Guess who gets the bookings... yup.  me.  They think they are getting one of those USB drives, but when it's delivered to their home, via a courier, who is also carrying a wood crated bottle of wine, and hands them the package.  They find 3 of them inside.  One in the custom box, and two more. One for each of their key rings.  that way they put the "master awesome boxed one" into a safe place, generally next to some wedding photos or album.  I train my clients that when they spend money with me, there is ALWAYS a positive outcome, more than they anticipated. EVERY TIME.  I train them to want to spend money.  This is just one of the ways I do that... 

There is a method to my madness in order to bring in the $250K/yr I do in weddings :)

ok, long rant.  Im finished!

Woa, you better not live in MPLS! DOH! ;)

Take a look at this...
http://www.brovadoweddings.com/blog/photography-apprentice/

davidbellissima

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Re: 5DIII same ISO performance as 5DII
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2012, 04:23:39 AM »
I think the Mk iii is definitely better. I did a test comparing the Mk ii to the Mk iii a day or two after receiving it last month. The files were processed in DPP which doesn't handle the Mk iii files well at all (softens the images at ALL ISOs). Far better results can be achieved in ACR. I need to update the post, but here it is for what it's worth:

http://www.bellissimaphoto.co.uk/photographers/canon-5d-mkiii-review-vs-5d-mkii-high-iso-test.html

Bart van Dieken

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Re: 5DIII same ISO performance as 5DII
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2012, 05:50:40 AM »
I would never use 6400 and 12800 on the 5d2, but with Lr 4.1 and the 5d3 I have used 12800 in required situations (f1,4 1/200s @ 12800) with HIGHLY useable results. I'm not afraid to use 12800 after seeing the results, but below 1600 I don't see much difference between the 5d2 and 5d3. I'm actually willing to claim iso 200 looked cleaner on the 5d2, based only on what it looks like, and what I'm used to.
1dx, 24-70 L II, 50 Art, 200 f2.0 L

Tcapp

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Re: 5DIII same ISO performance as 5DII
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2012, 01:29:18 PM »
I don't know about square sensors... I like the 2:3 aspect ratio.

I don't know if I would use flash drives for clients... cost is about 17x higher. And they are so small the client would lose it easily. Plus, the DVD has a larger area for custom printing/engraving.

How/where do you do your custom labeling?


The idea behind square sensor is that we crop to 2:3 aspect after the fact.  No need to decide landscape/portrait orientation when taking the photo.  I think the idea is revolutionary.  It would take a bit to get use to, but awesome after the fact.  Especially if they had 2:3 crop lines in the viewfinder!!!

Ive found that the clients simply put the USB drive on their key-ring.  And they lose the USB drive as often as they lose their car keys.  DVD's have seen their day.  And I really don't are about they cost when my clients pay an additional $1500 for image rights.  And in the long run, its cheaper than the custom DVD cases... I have a custom box for delivery of the USB drive, and the quality blows the appearance and value of a DVD out of the water.  (its apple like)  Its all about image "perceived value" remember?  Clients have been pre trained to think DVD's are worth between $15 and $20 as they buy them from the store all the time.  They have never seen a USB disk laser etched with their name, delivered in a matte black box.  The perceived value is incredible. I order the drives in 250qty bulk from China without the VERBATIM branding.  Just strait black, then I have a trophy guy here in my home town, laser on the name of the bride and groom.  Ive sold more image rights on these than you would believe... It looks REALLY sweet.  Plus, its all about sales right?  In my consultation meeting, imagine saying this to your clients...

"DVD's have seen their day.  You don't want something that going to sit on you bookshelf and collect dust, do you?  How about having your images on your key-ring, so they are with you wherever you go.  When you run into your friends and family, you can show them a quick slideshow of your favorites right there on the spot. Plus, I guarantee it for life, if you breaks, or you lose it.  Ill replace it for you, as long as you live."

Now you have just set expectations for that client. When they meet with other photographers in your city who show them DVD's they are going to think, "Those old things"  Guess who gets the bookings... yup.  me.  They think they are getting one of those USB drives, but when it's delivered to their home, via a courier, who is also carrying a wood crated bottle of wine, and hands them the package.  They find 3 of them inside.  One in the custom box, and two more. One for each of their key rings.  that way they put the "master awesome boxed one" into a safe place, generally next to some wedding photos or album.  I train my clients that when they spend money with me, there is ALWAYS a positive outcome, more than they anticipated. EVERY TIME.  I train them to want to spend money.  This is just one of the ways I do that... 

There is a method to my madness in order to bring in the $250K/yr I do in weddings :)

ok, long rant.  Im finished!

Woa, you better not live in MPLS! DOH! ;)

Take a look at this...
http://www.brovadoweddings.com/blog/photography-apprentice/


You are a smart man. Tell me where you order the flashdrives in bulk! :)
5DIII, 5DII, 7D, 50 1.4, 85 1.4, 70-200 2.8 IS L, 70-200 2.8 IS L II, 2x TC III, 15 Fisheye 2.8, 100 Macro 2.8, 24 1.4 L
http://www.TimothyCapp.com
Follow me on facebook! https://www.facebook.com/pages/Timothy-Capp-Photography/94664798952

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Re: 5DIII same ISO performance as 5DII
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2012, 01:29:18 PM »

prestonpalmer

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Re: 5DIII same ISO performance as 5DII
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2012, 10:40:09 PM »
You are a smart man. Tell me where you order the flashdrives in bulk! :)

Direct from china.  Before you do that, prove to yourself the concept works.  Just buy a dozen of them from newegg and see if you like it!

dswatson83

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Re: 5DIII same ISO performance as 5DII
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2012, 12:04:57 PM »
Square Sensor? Most of my clients are moving to digital delivery now and I only expect this to increase over time. Virtually ever laptop, desktop monitor, tv, projector, and tablet (other than the ipad which is 4x3) is 16x9 and now that resolutions are increasing, many are using them to display photos and photos on high res screens look great. And while i'm not a fan of the aspect ratio for photos, it is what it is and it won't be changing. If anything, they will be going wider. I sell portrait oriented photos for prints frequently, but for digital delivery, most want pictures oriented in landscape.

As for noise, I have to agree with my fellow wedding photographers that .5-1 stop improvement is a big freaking deal (even if I secretly wish it was 2). You will get .5 stops at lease because of the gapless sensor design. I'll take whatever I can take. I'm almost always forced to shoot at higher ISO than I would like, at slower shutter speeds than I would like, and wide open at 2.8 when the shot would look better (and the lens sharper) at f/4. Not to mention, shooting at 2.8 or wider with the 5d mark II's focusing system is risky. The new focusing system allows me to shoot wider since I can nail focus at f/2.8 and wider much more often than before.

sandymandy

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Re: 5DIII same ISO performance as 5DII
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2012, 12:16:29 PM »
Im 100% sure if we would get a square sensor soon that u can choose aspect ratio settings in the camera.

If your earning ur living by photography it shouldnt matter what shape the sensor has cuz u post process all images anyway for ur customers. Just crop to 3:2 if necessary.

briansquibb

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Re: 5DIII same ISO performance as 5DII
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2012, 12:30:51 PM »
Im 100% sure if we would get a square sensor soon that u can choose aspect ratio settings in the camera.

If your earning ur living by photography it shouldnt matter what shape the sensor has cuz u post process all images anyway for ur customers. Just crop to 3:2 if necessary.

The EOS IX APS film camera gave you a choice of aspect ratios.

The real beauty about a square sensor is that the camera doesn't have to be turned between landscape and portrait - so the series 1 body would not be needed

Tcapp

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Re: 5DIII same ISO performance as 5DII
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2012, 04:50:26 PM »
Square Sensor? Most of my clients are moving to digital delivery now and I only expect this to increase over time. Virtually ever laptop, desktop monitor, tv, projector, and tablet (other than the ipad which is 4x3) is 16x9 and now that resolutions are increasing, many are using them to display photos and photos on high res screens look great. And while i'm not a fan of the aspect ratio for photos, it is what it is and it won't be changing. If anything, they will be going wider. I sell portrait oriented photos for prints frequently, but for digital delivery, most want pictures oriented in landscape.

As for noise, I have to agree with my fellow wedding photographers that .5-1 stop improvement is a big freaking deal (even if I secretly wish it was 2). You will get .5 stops at lease because of the gapless sensor design. I'll take whatever I can take. I'm almost always forced to shoot at higher ISO than I would like, at slower shutter speeds than I would like, and wide open at 2.8 when the shot would look better (and the lens sharper) at f/4. Not to mention, shooting at 2.8 or wider with the 5d mark II's focusing system is risky. The new focusing system allows me to shoot wider since I can nail focus at f/2.8 and wider much more often than before.

Yep
5DIII, 5DII, 7D, 50 1.4, 85 1.4, 70-200 2.8 IS L, 70-200 2.8 IS L II, 2x TC III, 15 Fisheye 2.8, 100 Macro 2.8, 24 1.4 L
http://www.TimothyCapp.com
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skitron

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Re: 5DIII same ISO performance as 5DII
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2012, 10:33:30 PM »
Now Digital Negatives (if they buy them) are delivered on these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820235047

I agree the Tuff-N-Tiny is awesome!

5D3, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 100L, 24-105L, Sigma 50/1.4 DG, Canon TC 1.4x III

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Re: 5DIII same ISO performance as 5DII
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2012, 10:33:30 PM »

D.Sim

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Re: 5DIII same ISO performance as 5DII
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2012, 11:34:22 PM »
Im 100% sure if we would get a square sensor soon that u can choose aspect ratio settings in the camera.

If your earning ur living by photography it shouldnt matter what shape the sensor has cuz u post process all images anyway for ur customers. Just crop to 3:2 if necessary.

The EOS IX APS film camera gave you a choice of aspect ratios.

The real beauty about a square sensor is that the camera doesn't have to be turned between landscape and portrait - so the series 1 body would not be needed

You'd still need a taller body to fit that sensor in though... so a similar to 1 series body would still be used?

Tcapp

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Re: 5DIII same ISO performance as 5DII
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2012, 11:40:08 PM »
Im 100% sure if we would get a square sensor soon that u can choose aspect ratio settings in the camera.

If your earning ur living by photography it shouldnt matter what shape the sensor has cuz u post process all images anyway for ur customers. Just crop to 3:2 if necessary.

The EOS IX APS film camera gave you a choice of aspect ratios.

The real beauty about a square sensor is that the camera doesn't have to be turned between landscape and portrait - so the series 1 body would not be needed

You'd still need a taller body to fit that sensor in though... so a similar to 1 series body would still be used?

I like the bigger bodies.
5DIII, 5DII, 7D, 50 1.4, 85 1.4, 70-200 2.8 IS L, 70-200 2.8 IS L II, 2x TC III, 15 Fisheye 2.8, 100 Macro 2.8, 24 1.4 L
http://www.TimothyCapp.com
Follow me on facebook! https://www.facebook.com/pages/Timothy-Capp-Photography/94664798952

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Re: 5DIII same ISO performance as 5DII
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2012, 11:40:08 PM »