May 25, 2013, 02:55:37 PM

Author Topic: Um... is there a 30mpix camera on the way and when?  (Read 9190 times)

dtaylor

  • EOS M
  • ****
  • Posts: 300
    • View Profile
Re: Um... is there a 30mpix camera on the way and when?
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2012, 04:58:09 PM »
They should try perfecting there 20 megapixel line up first, there is still a lot to improve on in terms of dynamic range

Based on what? The imaginations of DxO?

In the real world there has been about a 1 stop difference between recent Canon and Nikon DSLRs in low ISO DR. Until a reputable (i.e. not DxO) testing site puts the 5D3 and D800 against a transmission step wedge, none of us know where they sit.

Sure, I wouldn't mind another stop of DR, if such a gap continues to exist. But DR has become a severely over hyped meme. FF sensors are in the 11-12 stop range. That's portrait print film territory.

Right now the lack of a 35 MP range FF sensor from Canon is a problem. Nobody is jumping ship over a stop of DR.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Um... is there a 30mpix camera on the way and when?
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2012, 04:58:09 PM »

Musouka

  • Rebel T4i
  • ****
  • Posts: 120
  • Canon 7D
    • View Profile
Re: Um... is there a 30mpix camera on the way and when?
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2012, 05:01:22 PM »
I guess soon after Nikon releases the D4x (or Sony enters the HMP race)...
Canon 7D | Speedlite 430EX
Canon 50 1.8II | Canon 100 2.8L IS | Tamron 17-50 | Tokina 11-16

Fishnose

  • Rebel T4i
  • ****
  • Posts: 104
    • View Profile
Re: Um... is there a 30mpix camera on the way and when?
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2012, 06:02:32 PM »
They have now seen that there are enough who are trained to believe that more MP are better and will put their money down for bragging rights.

You're basically telling me I'm an idiot because I feel I have a use for 36MP. I don't appreciate that. Choose your words more carefully.

What you really mean is YOU don't think one needs so many MP. Now that's another matter entirely. That's just YOUR little opinion.

takoman46

  • EOS M
  • ****
  • Posts: 211
    • View Profile
Re: Um... is there a 30mpix camera on the way and when?
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2012, 06:09:51 PM »
I wonder how many people out there want a ton of megapixels (30+) and don't even realize that most computers would lag like a mother ****** when processing these files... Especially if you are zoomed in to 100% crop and trying to make edits... Post processing 21-22mp images from my 5D's are somewhat slow going on my 15in Corei7 Macbook Pro... And I have 8GB ram and a Crucial M4 SSD! My 27in iMac actually runs slower than my Macbook Pro. The only thing that handles the processing is my PC Rig that I built from scratch. You'll need some serious power if you expect to be post processing in any sort of timely manner. Here's a general idea of my PC setup for snappy processing times on 5D II & III jpegs/RAWs: Intel Core i7 Extreme 6 Core 3.33GHz Processor ($600), NVidia 580GTX Graphics Board ($440), Crucial 16GB RAM, Crucial M4 SSD (6Gb negotiated link speed). This is just the critical hardware. You can go ahead and add on an ATX motherboard of your choice, Cooling system, additional Hard drives, Blu-ray/DVD drives, and any PCI slot peripherals you want. You'll probably end up spending at least $1500 on the tower hardware alone (not including the case or monitor(s) lol) for a decent machine that will be able to keep up with the processing of huge images from your 30+mp camera.  ;)

So who still wants 30+mp? You can take the pictures and wait 30 minutes for your consumer level desktop or laptop to catch up to to your workflow. Unless everyone who bought a D800 has a rig that can keep up with the processing resource requirements, I think it might be safe to say that many photographers out there are losing money on time waiting for their computers to render changes of these massive files. 

lol

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 426
    • View Profile
    • My dA
Re: Um... is there a 30mpix camera on the way and when?
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2012, 06:40:45 PM »
more MP are better
See what I did there  :P

Seriously, more MP *are* better. But in a different way that less MP are better. It depends on what you want to do with them. Nikon fanboys previously trained to believe 12MP is all they ever need have been dragged kicking and screaming into understanding where higher MP counts might be more useful. Could use some of that around here too.

As for the processing cost, it's hardly end of the world territory. Taking the D800 as representing the affordable MP limit for now, consider that 36MP is twice 18MP that's used in most Canon crop bodies. Processing time is pretty much linear, so you take twice the processing time. To me, the computer's processing time is still much less than the time you spend deciding what adjustments to make, so in practice it isn't going to affect the workflow speed significantly.
Canon 1D, 300D IR, 450D full spectrum, 600D, 5D2, 7D, EF 35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 135/2+SF, 70-300L, 100-400L
EF-S 15-85, TS-E 24, MP-E 65, Zeiss 50/2 macro, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300/2.8 OS, Samyang 8mm fisheye

TexPhoto

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 631
    • View Profile
Re: Um... is there a 30mpix camera on the way and when?
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2012, 06:58:21 PM »
If they do not they will receive huge amounts of criticism.
If they do they will receive huge amounts of criticism.

I will work on shooting and selling photos.

takoman46

  • EOS M
  • ****
  • Posts: 211
    • View Profile
Re: Um... is there a 30mpix camera on the way and when?
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2012, 07:07:45 PM »
more MP are better
See what I did there  :P

Seriously, more MP *are* better. But in a different way that less MP are better. It depends on what you want to do with them. Nikon fanboys previously trained to believe 12MP is all they ever need have been dragged kicking and screaming into understanding where higher MP counts might be more useful. Could use some of that around here too.

As for the processing cost, it's hardly end of the world territory. Taking the D800 as representing the affordable MP limit for now, consider that 36MP is twice 18MP that's used in most Canon crop bodies. Processing time is pretty much linear, so you take twice the processing time. To me, the computer's processing time is still much less than the time you spend deciding what adjustments to make, so in practice it isn't going to affect the workflow speed significantly.

How long are you used to waiting for your machine to process? I frankly get really irritated when I have to wait for the processor to catch up to my edits. Also, as a system builder, I assure you that a file twice the size of another file will not necessarily take twice as long to process. Interesting theory but it's not relative to allocation of system resources. You have to take into account the processor cache, graphics power, temp memory (RAM), bus speed of mother board, and actual negotiated link speed to your hard drive. So a 10mb file will not take twice as long to process as a 5mb file. It could be less or it could be more, depending on how much data your system can handle and task at a given moment.  My point is that the power of most consumer level systems lack the necessary power, memory cache, and actual link speed to compute, render, and write fast enough to keep up with even the most basic of workflows.  ;)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 07:10:49 PM by takoman46 »

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Um... is there a 30mpix camera on the way and when?
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2012, 07:07:45 PM »

D_Rochat

  • Guest
Re: Um... is there a 30mpix camera on the way and when?
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2012, 07:12:02 PM »
They have now seen that there are enough who are trained to believe that more MP are better and will put their money down for bragging rights.

You're basically telling me I'm an idiot because I feel I have a use for 36MP. I don't appreciate that. Choose your words more carefully.

What you really mean is YOU don't think one needs so many MP. Now that's another matter entirely. That's just YOUR little opinion.

Whoa there! Gear down big rig! I think someone needs a nap. I think he's saying that in general, consumers have been led to believe that more MP are better no matter what and that's what they should look for. The issue between more vs. less isn't so black and white. It wasn't a personal attack, mmk.

barton springs

  • PowerShot G15
  • **
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Re: Um... is there a 30mpix camera on the way and when?
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2012, 07:41:50 PM »
I was shooting the XS, then I switched to the 5d2, and I like it, but I can tell right away that it ain't coming even close to medium format resolution, especially after cropping.

So, do you think canon might release something FF in the 30 mpix range in the next year or two? ???


problem solved:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ns=p_PRICE_2%7C0&ci=16734&N=4259332394&srtclk=sort

D_Rochat

  • Guest
Re: Um... is there a 30mpix camera on the way and when?
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2012, 07:45:06 PM »
My point being, I want to stay with canon, I think that the MF is way to bulky and expensive, and would love to see something like a D800 from canon.

Still not solved.

skoobey

  • PowerShot G15
  • **
  • Posts: 31
    • View Profile
Re: Um... is there a 30mpix camera on the way and when?
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2012, 09:01:01 PM »
I wonder how many people out there want a ton of megapixels (30+) and don't even realize that most computers would lag like a mother ****** when processing these files... Especially if you are zoomed in to 100% crop and trying to make edits... Post processing 21-22mp images from my 5D's are somewhat slow going on my 15in Corei7 Macbook Pro... And I have 8GB ram and a Crucial M4 SSD! My 27in iMac actually runs slower than my Macbook Pro. The only thing that handles the processing is my PC Rig that I built from scratch. You'll need some serious power if you expect to be post processing in any sort of timely manner. Here's a general idea of my PC setup for snappy processing times on 5D II & III jpegs/RAWs: Intel Core i7 Extreme 6 Core 3.33GHz Processor ($600), NVidia 580GTX Graphics Board ($440), Crucial 16GB RAM, Crucial M4 SSD (6Gb negotiated link speed). This is just the critical hardware. You can go ahead and add on an ATX motherboard of your choice, Cooling system, additional Hard drives, Blu-ray/DVD drives, and any PCI slot peripherals you want. You'll probably end up spending at least $1500 on the tower hardware alone (not including the case or monitor(s) lol) for a decent machine that will be able to keep up with the processing of huge images from your 30+mp camera.  ;)

So who still wants 30+mp? You can take the pictures and wait 30 minutes for your consumer level desktop or laptop to catch up to to your workflow. Unless everyone who bought a D800 has a rig that can keep up with the processing resource requirements, I think it might be safe to say that many photographers out there are losing money on time waiting for their computers to render changes of these massive files.

Oh, I'm sorry, but what you just said is a complete lie.

I shoot 5dII and I ALWAYS turn the resolution 3x (up to 60 mpix, 40ish when cropped), and even with my files that have over 50 layers everything works great. Only thing I might wait for is liquify. And I am using a 2009 Mac Pro. And I even played with Phase one files of 80mpix and even then everything worked fine.

Also, consumers consumers consumers. A person who'll buy a d800 is sure not a consumer but a professional, this is not a coolpix.

I just wish for Canon to release a successor to the 5dII aimed at the fashion/landscape/portrait crowd.




itsnotmeyouknow

  • EOS M
  • ****
  • Posts: 235
    • View Profile
Re: Um... is there a 30mpix camera on the way and when?
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2012, 09:09:39 PM »
I don't really care about noise, I like the noise as long as it's not going all crazy and pattern like( H1 and H2 modes on 5d2).

Dynamic range is okaaay, but as far as I can tell 5dIII is worse, and that's why I didn't get it, and is completely lacking in grain, making files look artificial.

My point being, I want to stay with canon, I think that the MF is way to bulky and expensive, and would love to see something like a D800 from canon.

There is more to the difference between MF and FF than just resolution, otherwise Phase One would be panicking years ago, yet they still sell a digital back with a 31mp resolution.  xxMP enables you to print bigger or to crop in closer.  It can't change the perspective and a photographer that regularly uses higher resolution instead of a different lens  or getting closer to the subject needs to look at his technique. 

I own the Pentax 645D as well as the 5DC, 5D2 and 5D3.  the difference in the files is more than just the size.  My MF shots have more definition to them, although the mkIII shoots some beauties, a mk IV with 50% more pixels won't outperform MF because of other factors like size of sensor (Pentax 645D is 44 x 33mm).  The Pentax is a nice camera to hold, a good weight, and lighter with a 33-55mm (35mm equiv: 27 - 43mm) than my 5D3 with 24 - 70L.  It might look bulky but it's easy to carry and weathersealed.  Mine is in Japan being fixed after a knock or two thanks to Sunsiper straps.

itsnotmeyouknow

  • EOS M
  • ****
  • Posts: 235
    • View Profile
Re: Um... is there a 30mpix camera on the way and when?
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2012, 09:13:59 PM »
I wonder how many people out there want a ton of megapixels (30+) and don't even realize that most computers would lag like a mother ****** when processing these files... Especially if you are zoomed in to 100% crop and trying to make edits... Post processing 21-22mp images from my 5D's are somewhat slow going on my 15in Corei7 Macbook Pro... And I have 8GB ram and a Crucial M4 SSD! My 27in iMac actually runs slower than my Macbook Pro. The only thing that handles the processing is my PC Rig that I built from scratch. You'll need some serious power if you expect to be post processing in any sort of timely manner. Here's a general idea of my PC setup for snappy processing times on 5D II & III jpegs/RAWs: Intel Core i7 Extreme 6 Core 3.33GHz Processor ($600), NVidia 580GTX Graphics Board ($440), Crucial 16GB RAM, Crucial M4 SSD (6Gb negotiated link speed). This is just the critical hardware. You can go ahead and add on an ATX motherboard of your choice, Cooling system, additional Hard drives, Blu-ray/DVD drives, and any PCI slot peripherals you want. You'll probably end up spending at least $1500 on the tower hardware alone (not including the case or monitor(s) lol) for a decent machine that will be able to keep up with the processing of huge images from your 30+mp camera.  ;)

So who still wants 30+mp? You can take the pictures and wait 30 minutes for your consumer level desktop or laptop to catch up to to your workflow. Unless everyone who bought a D800 has a rig that can keep up with the processing resource requirements, I think it might be safe to say that many photographers out there are losing money on time waiting for their computers to render changes of these massive files.

Oh, I'm sorry, but what you just said is a complete lie.

I shoot 5dII and I ALWAYS turn the resolution 3x (up to 60 mpix, 40ish when cropped), and even with my files that have over 50 layers everything works great. Only thing I might wait for is liquify. And I am using a 2009 Mac Pro. And I even played with Phase one files of 80mpix and even then everything worked fine.

Also, consumers consumers consumers. A person who'll buy a d800 is sure not a consumer but a professional, this is not a coolpix.

I just wish for Canon to release a successor to the 5dII aimed at the fashion/landscape/portrait crowd.

Not everyone that buys a pro camera is a professional photographer.  I have quite a bit of pro kit (3 film MF 1 digital MF, 3 FF 1 crop (7D) and many many lenses) but I haven't earned a penny from my photography.  There are believe it or not people with Mk III's using the green box.  A professional camera owner doth not a professional photographer make

AUGS

  • PowerShot G15
  • **
  • Posts: 41
    • View Profile
Re: Um... is there a 30mpix camera on the way and when?
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2012, 10:03:31 PM »
They have now seen that there are enough who are trained to believe that more MP are better and will put their money down for bragging rights.

You're basically telling me I'm an idiot because I feel I have a use for 36MP. I don't appreciate that. Choose your words more carefully.

What you really mean is YOU don't think one needs so many MP. Now that's another matter entirely. That's just YOUR little opinion.

Actually, I didn't read it that way at all.

Maybe it is my Product Development Manager way of thinking, but Need and Want are two very different market segments.  The need is the foundation and creates the opportunity, and in some ways may be guaranteed sales.  The want can be fickle and are opportunistic sales, but can make a product a viable proposition.  I see dozens of fantastic ideas cross my desk on a regular basis, most of which there is a real market need, but sadly unless they can be sold in sufficient quantities they are not commercially viable on a return on investment and/or opportunity cost basis.  So where do the extra sales volumes to make it viable come from - those that want it, either through Marketing (for cameras the big sales message is often megapixels because to Joe Public this is a measureable quantity, after that it can just be techno-babble) or other means (peer pressure?).  Not everyone that buys a pro camera is a professional photographer.

As we saw in the leadup to and just after the release of the 5D3 spec lists, many indicated they needed a high megapixel camera (some studio and landscape photographers).  What the D800 sales is showing is a substantial market that also want it, and together both could be sufficient to guarantee the investment by Canon.

So as Mt Spokane Photography also said, but was omitted from your quote so it loses some context,
Canon will do it because it sells.

You and others (sometimes myself) may be in the Need category, but it is likely the Wants that will deliver the product for you.  I wouldn't take it personally.

Abraxx

  • Canon AE-1
  • ***
  • Posts: 68
    • View Profile
Re: Um... is there a 30mpix camera on the way and when?
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2012, 10:29:10 PM »
@Augs
+1
Well written, couldn't agree more.

 :)
'Photographers are the eyes of the world'
Focus on Landscape/Nature, Architecture, Technology, Wildlife, Street

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Um... is there a 30mpix camera on the way and when?
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2012, 10:29:10 PM »