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Author Topic: Light leak on 5D3 IS a big issue, and should embarrass Canon  (Read 25637 times)

TrumpetPower!

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Re: Light leak on 5D3 IS a big issue, and should embarrass Canon
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2012, 04:57:07 PM »
What many has it been confirmed by? So far I have seen one person say that he found a difference with the lens cap off and it ONLY occured at EV1, the absolute bottom limit of the metering performance range, where it underexposed by 1/3 of a stop.

That sounds like me you're referring to, and you're making the situation sound significantly worse than what I discovered.

Set the camera in manual mode to EV 1 (1" @ f/1.4 @ ISO 100), and find a dark corner of a dark room to point to until the meter bug is centered. Turning the LCD backlight on and off will not budge the meter at all. This is the bottom of the specified range of the 5DIII meter.

Set it to EV 0 and the backlight still won't change the exposure.

At EV -1, the backlight moves to the right by 1/3 stop when you turn it on...but you can't say that it's causing underexposure at that point because it's operating outside of its design parameters and may well already be off by some unknown and unspecified amount in either direction.

At EV -2, the backlight still only makes the meter move 1/3 stop to the right.

At EV -3, the backlight makes the meter bounce between 1/3 and 2/3 stops.

At EV -4, the backlight makes the meter move solidly on 2/3 stops to the right...and you're five stops below the bottom of the meter's range (30" @ f/1.4 @ ISO 100) and basically in the dark. There's no way the meter's readings are reliable, with or without the backlight on. Any photographic meter -- not just the one built in to the camera.

If you're actually photographing in conditions even as dark as EV 1...well, either you're doing long-exposure tripod work, maybe of the nighttime skyline, and you know full well that your meter is already useless...or you're being silly showing off your new toy outside at night away from the lights, and probably shooting at ISO 25,600 or something ludicrous and you know the results, though surprisingly not bad, will be totally useless for anything serious. And at EV -2 when the "problem" actually starts to appear, and only at a third of a stop? We're talking moonlit landscape photography, where no sane person even thinks to have a look at the meter. Hell, you're probably thinking of shooting in bulb mode with a stopwatch in those conditions....

Cheers,

b&

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Re: Light leak on 5D3 IS a big issue, and should embarrass Canon
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2012, 04:57:07 PM »

jfretless

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Re: Light leak on 5D3 IS a big issue, and should embarrass Canon
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2012, 05:03:51 PM »
The Mayans were right!  ...the end of world is coming!

in other words...  meh.


I had been mulling over the choice between the D800 and the 5D3, and went with the 5D3 for a number of reasons - one of which being the fact that I like the Canon ‘design’ altogether more than Nikon’s.  And then this light leak issue creeps up (which I confirmed just now on my 5D3).  I’ve been hearing people saying things liked “it doesn’t matter in real-world shooting”, or “it’s easy to avoid it by just not lighting the LCD in dark environments.  1. This just isn’t true - if light is leaking in and altering the metering, you get (slightly) altered photos.  This has been confirmed by many.  And 2. whether most of us shoot in really dark environments or not simply doesn’t matter.  We shouldn’t have to take precautionary measures when shooting photos to work around a design flaw.  We as customers should not be the solution to a product’s design problem.  And no matter how easy the solution is, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s a design flaw.

I remember watching The Tonight Show many years ago and during one of Jay Leno’s monologues, he said, “In other news, the FDA came out with new rules regarding fecal matter in poultry.  Now folks.......this is the new rule?  Shouldn’t this have been the old rule?  Shouldn’t this have been rule #1??

(....Of course, he went on to say “I sure hope this doesn’t mean Colonel Sanders is now down to only ten secret herbs and spices in his fried chicken”....but that’s beside the point.)

Similarly, a camera properly blocking out light should be rule #1.  A camera is supposed to block out light....just in case we decide to shoot in extremely low light environments (which many already do).  And for a fairly-dim LCD backlight to alter the metering in a dark environment is just plain scandalous.  That kind of thing suggests that Canon pushed this camera out before testing it thoroughly (or maybe they knew about it and decided to ship it out anyway and hope for the best).

Either way, I’m returning mine, and will consider buying it again after Canon has satisfactorily addressed the matter.  Shipping a brand-new camera back to Canon to have it modified or repaired is completely unacceptable, and utterly out of the question.

MrSandman

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Re: Light leak on 5D3 IS a big issue, and should embarrass Canon
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2012, 05:14:28 PM »
It's the very fact that it's not a $35,000 car that makes the camera more of a disposable/replaceable item.  However, for a camera it is expensive, and as such should be able to perform basic tasks like isolating the meter from ambient light.

zim

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Re: Light leak on 5D3 IS a big issue, and should embarrass Canon
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2012, 05:19:13 PM »
What many has it been confirmed by? So far I have seen one person say that he found a difference with the lens cap off and it ONLY occured at EV1, the absolute bottom limit of the metering performance range, where it underexposed by 1/3 of a stop.

That sounds like me you're referring to, and you're making the situation sound significantly worse than what I discovered.

Set the camera in manual mode to EV 1 (1" @ f/1.4 @ ISO 100), and find a dark corner of a dark room to point to until the meter bug is centered. Turning the LCD backlight on and off will not budge the meter at all. This is the bottom of the specified range of the 5DIII meter.

Set it to EV 0 and the backlight still won't change the exposure.

At EV -1, the backlight moves to the right by 1/3 stop when you turn it on...but you can't say that it's causing underexposure at that point because it's operating outside of its design parameters and may well already be off by some unknown and unspecified amount in either direction.

At EV -2, the backlight still only makes the meter move 1/3 stop to the right.

At EV -3, the backlight makes the meter bounce between 1/3 and 2/3 stops.

At EV -4, the backlight makes the meter move solidly on 2/3 stops to the right...and you're five stops below the bottom of the meter's range (30" @ f/1.4 @ ISO 100) and basically in the dark. There's no way the meter's readings are reliable, with or without the backlight on. Any photographic meter -- not just the one built in to the camera.

If you're actually photographing in conditions even as dark as EV 1...well, either you're doing long-exposure tripod work, maybe of the nighttime skyline, and you know full well that your meter is already useless...or you're being silly showing off your new toy outside at night away from the lights, and probably shooting at ISO 25,600 or something ludicrous and you know the results, though surprisingly not bad, will be totally useless for anything serious. And at EV -2 when the "problem" actually starts to appear, and only at a third of a stop? We're talking moonlit landscape photography, where no sane person even thinks to have a look at the meter. Hell, you're probably thinking of shooting in bulb mode with a stopwatch in those conditions....

Cheers,

b&


Don't suppose anyone has a D800 they could try this with, just for a laugh hehehe


LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Light leak on 5D3 IS a big issue, and should embarrass Canon
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2012, 05:20:45 PM »
What many has it been confirmed by? So far I have seen one person say that he found a difference with the lens cap off and it ONLY occured at EV1, the absolute bottom limit of the metering performance range, where it underexposed by 1/3 of a stop.

That sounds like me you're referring to, and you're making the situation sound significantly worse than what I discovered.

Set the camera in manual mode to EV 1 (1" @ f/1.4 @ ISO 100), and find a dark corner of a dark room to point to until the meter bug is centered. Turning the LCD backlight on and off will not budge the meter at all. This is the bottom of the specified range of the 5DIII meter.

Set it to EV 0 and the backlight still won't change the exposure.

At EV -1, the backlight moves to the right by 1/3 stop when you turn it on...but you can't say that it's causing underexposure at that point because it's operating outside of its design parameters and may well already be off by some unknown and unspecified amount in either direction.

At EV -2, the backlight still only makes the meter move 1/3 stop to the right.

At EV -3, the backlight makes the meter bounce between 1/3 and 2/3 stops.

At EV -4, the backlight makes the meter move solidly on 2/3 stops to the right...and you're five stops below the bottom of the meter's range (30" @ f/1.4 @ ISO 100) and basically in the dark. There's no way the meter's readings are reliable, with or without the backlight on. Any photographic meter -- not just the one built in to the camera.

If you're actually photographing in conditions even as dark as EV 1...well, either you're doing long-exposure tripod work, maybe of the nighttime skyline, and you know full well that your meter is already useless...or you're being silly showing off your new toy outside at night away from the lights, and probably shooting at ISO 25,600 or something ludicrous and you know the results, though surprisingly not bad, will be totally useless for anything serious. And at EV -2 when the "problem" actually starts to appear, and only at a third of a stop? We're talking moonlit landscape photography, where no sane person even thinks to have a look at the meter. Hell, you're probably thinking of shooting in bulb mode with a stopwatch in those conditions....

Cheers,

b&

I think it was someone else since they mentioned EV1 not EV -1:

"Since the operating range of the 5D3's light meter is Ev 1 to 20 according the manual, I decided to try testing for the light leak phenomenon at a light level equivalent to Ev 1--the minimum light light level at which the 5D3's light meter can be relied upon to provide an accurate reading. Although I'm not an expert on Ev levels, after consulting a chart on Wikipedia, I determined that at f/5.6 and ISO 100, Ev 1 would correspond to a shutter speed of 15 seconds. (If I'm wrong about this, I'm sure someone will tell me.) So I set my 5D3 to ISO 100, and my lens to f/5.6, took off the lens cap, covered the viewfinder eyepiece, and found a dark environment where the 5D3's meter gave me a shutter speed of 15 seconds. Then I pressed the LCD illumination button to see what, if anything, would happen.

Having previously convinced myself that the leak leak phenomenon was only likely to manifest itself at Ev levels far below Ev 1, I fully expected to see no change in the shutter speed. But to my surprise, I did see a change, although only a slight one--from 15 seconds to 13 seconds. Shining a flash light directly into the top LCD resulted in a similar change.

I then repeated the test by moving to a very slightly brighter area where the meter gave me a reading of 5 seconds--corresponding to something just over Ev 2. When I pressed the LCD illumination button this time, I saw no change, nor did I see any change with the flashlight.

So, what conclusions do I draw from this. Well, contrary to my earlier assumption, it does appear that this phenomenon could affect metering within the 5D3's published metering range--but only at the very bottom of the range--around Ev 1--and only very slightly--the difference between 15 seconds and 13 seconds. If you're trying to meter at lower light levels, say around Ev -4 where most of the testing I've seen posted has been occurring, the effect on the meter reading will likely be more significant, but of course, any metering you might try to do at Ev -4, or any other level below Ev 1, is already inherently unreliable."

In either case though it doesn't seem like a problem to me and certainly nothing to be embarrassed about, come on.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 05:39:30 PM by LetTheRightLensIn »

Raddy

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Re: Light leak on 5D3 IS a big issue, and should embarrass Canon
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2012, 05:35:10 PM »
I really would like to know how many people would have noticed this flaw on their own, not reading about it on the web. So the Internet ruined it all!  ;D

People started to end up in all this tech talk, examining this and that but kinda forgot what (in this case) the 5D3 is actually made for. Lemme guess... Taking pictures?!
Oh and then I always hear: "Hey, its 3500 bucks. I expect it to be perfect." But wait, actually they were looking for 35+MP and some other features still missing. But still people were buying like crazy and some of them seem to be doomed in finding some issue which would justify complaining about the price afterwards.

No offense, but this is getting worse with every new model released.
But I'm always glad to see people still being happy with their purchase and I do got the feeling those are the guys who actually really use and value this camera.
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prestonpalmer

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Re: Light leak on 5D3 IS a big issue, and should embarrass Canon
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2012, 05:40:46 PM »
Talk about a newby photographer posting his amazing discovery on vimeo, and then those who think its a new discovery and are shocked.

Exactly.

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Re: Light leak on 5D3 IS a big issue, and should embarrass Canon
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2012, 05:40:46 PM »

prestonpalmer

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Re: Light leak on 5D3 IS a big issue, and should embarrass Canon
« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2012, 05:42:36 PM »
If you want to complain maybe complain that canon sticks with the annoying little neck strap thing on all non 1 series bodies.

But this is nothing new.
They would have to recall every SLR/DSLR made in the last, well, who knows how many years.

That's exactly correct.

zim

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Re: Light leak on 5D3 IS a big issue, and should embarrass Canon
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2012, 05:43:23 PM »
I really would like to know how many people would have noticed this flaw on their own, not reading about it on the web. So the Internet ruined it all!  ;D

Hey I like the interweb you get a good laugh, oh yeh and there's always porn  8)

prestonpalmer

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Re: Light leak on 5D3 IS a big issue, and should embarrass Canon
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2012, 05:44:39 PM »
Quote
Why don’t we hear about this with the D800, D4, or D700?

Why don't we hear about this with the Canon 40D and 5D mark II ???
My 40D / 5D MK II show the same issue.

Maybe because we didn't test the old DSLR's with the lenscap attached ;)

Same here.  My 40D and BOTH my 5D2's do the EXACT SAME THING.  Oh wait.  Maybe I should take photos with my lens cap off... crap.

prestonpalmer

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Re: Light leak on 5D3 IS a big issue, and should embarrass Canon
« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2012, 05:50:23 PM »
I really would like to know how many people would have noticed this flaw on their own, not reading about it on the web. So the Internet ruined it all!  ;D

This is EXACTLY why canon said something about it publicly.  The same problem was NOT considered a problem in earlier models.  IE, 40D, 5D2.  The only reason canon has said something is because you guys are all picking up your pitch forks. 

nikkito

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Re: Light leak on 5D3 IS a big issue, and should embarrass Canon
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2012, 06:11:50 PM »
The problem is users who take photos with their lens hoods on...

Really ?

https://vimeo.com/40135673

Wow, light will enter thru the viewfinder if you take your eye away from it!
 
This has been known and happens in every SLR and DSLR for at least the past several years.  Canon includes a eyepiece cover and tells you to use it, and Nikon has a lever that closes a shutter to block light from entering.  Every DSLR does this.
 
Talk about a newby photographer posting his amazing discovery on vimeo, and then those who think its a new discovery and are shocked.


Haha well Said!
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nikkito

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Re: Light leak on 5D3 IS a big issue, and should embarrass Canon
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2012, 06:17:36 PM »
What the hell is going on with some people here? Thye buy a camera and instead of going out to take pictures they just stay at home, investigate their camera hoping to find something bad, strange, whatever to post its later on YouTube and become famous.

I wonder how many of this camera nerds know how to take pictures.

It's so annoying...  >:(
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Re: Light leak on 5D3 IS a big issue, and should embarrass Canon
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2012, 06:17:36 PM »

wockawocka

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Re: Light leak on 5D3 IS a big issue, and should embarrass Canon
« Reply #43 on: April 18, 2012, 06:33:19 PM »
What the hell is going on with some people here? Thye buy a camera and instead of going out to take pictures they just stay at home, investigate their camera hoping to find something bad, strange, whatever to post its later on YouTube and become famous.

I wonder how many of this camera nerds know how to take pictures.

It's so annoying...  >:(

You can't cure stupid.
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Otter

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Re: Light leak on 5D3 IS a big issue, and should embarrass Canon
« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2012, 08:17:31 PM »
Honestly, I don't know why everyone is making such a big deal about this on both ends of the spectrum?

I think people do have the right to complain if they aren't happy with a product.  I don't think it is bad that they want their piece of $3500 electronics to be problem free.  I think the quality control is much tighter on a camera as opposed to an automobile.  And if there is an issue, it's fine if people complain about it or have issues with it, even if it is almost a non issue.

On the other hand...The ones with issues really have to relax.  Canon should be embarrassed, shame on Canon, I'm switching to Nikon!!!  If you aren't happy with your camera or the light leak, here's a solution.  RETURN IT! Nothing wrong with that.  Canon WILL fix the issue.  Don't act like Canon has insulted you and your family personally by releasing a camera with a mild defect that is fixable.  Just return it and wait, then you have no reason to be upset if this is a deal breaker for you.  You can go into a Bestbuy and buy a TV and there's a good chance that some of those TV's they have in stock will have issues.  It happens.

So those are just my 2 cents on the topic of the light leak and everyone over reacting on both sides.   It'll get fixed, you'll all be happy in the end and then we can bitch about something else instead.  In the mean time just chill a bit and go and shoot some photos!

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Re: Light leak on 5D3 IS a big issue, and should embarrass Canon
« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2012, 08:17:31 PM »