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Author Topic: 50D & SX1 Replacements Next Week?  (Read 15550 times)

marind

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Re: 50D & SX1 Replacements Next Week?
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2010, 02:35:41 AM »
Quote
That is the dilema I am facing. I can justify to myself getting that 10-22 EF-S if I save a little by getting the 60D instead of the 7D.

you will NEVER regret the 10-22, believe me .. so go for a 1000d and the lens, if that's the only option ..  ;D

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Re: 50D & SX1 Replacements Next Week?
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2010, 02:35:41 AM »

catz

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Re: 50D & SX1 Replacements Next Week?
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2010, 05:19:01 AM »
I shoot both video and stills with my 5D mark II. What I would feel would be revolutionary upgrade, would be fixing the absolutely worst problem in the current line of HDSLRs:
- it is the aliasing. It is bloody awful and it is everywhere. Aliasing is bad, it is evil, it eats all the resolution!

I have 5D mark II and it suffers from severe aliasing. After starting to notice it, I see it everywhere, and it sucks. It ruins the resolution and the video is not really true very high definition because of the aliasing despite being theoretically 1920x1080 pixels, 5D has no more than 720p resolution in reality with the aliasing artefacts. With this line-skipping image shrinking algorithm for video ruins the video resolution.

If they would just fix this issue, have pixel perfect 1080p recording without aliasing, without any other advancements, it would be enough for me to consider upgrading my 5D mark II for the new camera. All the other flaws are okay and I can live with them, but the aliasing, due to bad line-skipping algorithm instead of interpolating from the pixels, really ruins the image. Revolutionary video becomes with this aliasing flawed video.

The second thing I would hope for would be higher bitrate for video.

I would be happy with the current 5D still photo features, I would not be wishing for anything else, I can take great stills on my 5D, the video section is what is the flawed one on it. What I am only asking for would only require a faster processor in the camera and a better algorithm and that would be all that would be needed for revolutionary upgrade. Implementing the software, if the CPU/DSP capacity was there, should not be a big deal. This really should be on top of the product backlog. Fix this and then there are grounds to make the camera better. By not fixing this, it does not matter how nice other things are there or aren't there, because this problem is a blocker.

If your eye does not catch aliasing yet, please read this:
http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/article.php/20

Be warned, after you begin seeing it, you will see it all the time on 5D mk II, 7D, 1D MKIV or 550D video footage. I even saw in some Sony NEX-VG10 test video similar aliasing (I was thinking that maybe because it is supposed to be video camera, it would be free from that flaw, but even it seemed to have in this one Zeiss test video super terrible aliasing on vertical lines, about as bad as my 5D does). If Canon does it right, they concentrate their efforts on this most severe problem of the 5D mark II that cripples the video and makes the footage to scream "this is video!" instead of having the feeling of "film like" or better. By fixing only this flaw (and maybe increasing bitrate), the Canon becomes a great cinema tool, even without recording raw. Of course, if it recorded straight ProRes 422 and maybe had 2K resolution (slightly better than HD), it would be superb, but I would like to stay realistic with wishes from big corporation that potentially moves slowly and potentially has product managers who don't know or don't see what aliasing is and how terrible and bad it is and how it ruins the video from HDSRLs and how severe the problem really is. Look at the resolution charts. Once you see the problem, you can see that it is not only the resolution charts, but real actual footage that looks crappy because of it, and it even makes the compression to work badly because there are sharp lines that should not be there and they eat the bits that could be otherwise used to save real pixel data.

No more AF points or whatever, I don't care a bit, I use manual focus on video anyway, I only want to get rid of aliasing and will then live happily ever after! I would be even happier though if it came with better codecs, full-HD unobstructed HDMI output etc., but before that the basic biggest issue should be fixed, please Canon fix the aliasing, please! I don't really care about new lenses at the moment or whatever accessories, I am happy with the L-lenses I have currently, but they don't matter if the camera records flawed pixels because of aliasing. That is worse than worst chromatic aberration I have ever seen on any lens. Lines and colors are generated out of nowhere because of skipped lines. I unfortunately  can't afford Red (which of course does not have these issues at all, their cameras are not line skipping), I want that Canon fixes this issue for their next models.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 05:29:51 AM by catz »

MadButcher

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Re: 50D & SX1 Replacements Next Week?
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2010, 08:24:02 AM »
How would the market react on a 60D with 10mp?
Same resolution as the 40D but with the sensor-technology of the 5D II or 1D IV.
For example native max. ISO of 6400.
And also ISO 50 option.

And as mentioned in the previous post pixel-binning for anti-aliasing of video.

unfocused

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Re: 50D & SX1 Replacements Next Week?
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2010, 02:08:36 PM »
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How would the market react on a 60D with 10mp?

That's easy. Sales would drop through the floor.

Nikon is going to a 16mp sensor on the D95. Canon isn't going to put a completely new sensor in the 60D (especially one that most consumers would view as being less desirable than the Nikon's). That's not the niche the camera is meant to fill. They can use their 18mp Rebel/7D sensor and still stay ahead of Nikon in the Great Pixel Race.



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gkreis

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Re: 50D & SX1 Replacements Next Week?
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2010, 03:53:29 PM »
That is the dilema I am facing. I can justify to myself getting that 10-22 EF-S if I save a little by getting the 60D instead of the 7D.
And that 10-22 is a beauty.  I really like mine.  My 100mm Macro is also terrific. I have a 17-85mm which is decent and the 70-300mm that is a disappointment.  So I plan to upgrade each of these, so I know what you mean.  Don't go overboard on the body if you can help it.

Maybe the 60D will be pressured by the lowered 7D price into an $1199 price.  That would be nice....   the xxD series never had an APS-C ceiling before...  ;-)

gkreis

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Re: 50D & SX1 Replacements Next Week?
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2010, 04:31:03 PM »
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How would the market react on a 60D with 10mp?

That's easy. Sales would drop through the floor.

Nikon is going to a 16mp sensor on the D95. Canon isn't going to put a completely new sensor in the 60D (especially one that most consumers would view as being less desirable than the Nikon's). That's not the niche the camera is meant to fill. They can use their 18mp Rebel/7D sensor and still stay ahead of Nikon in the Great Pixel Race.

10mp would be a mistake, but I think many would be happy to see 14-15mp if it meant 2 stops better performance than the 40D. The 50D's 15mp was a good upper limit for APS-C sized sensor but its high ISO was a let down...

There is physics that argues against too high of a density.  Densities like those of the G11 would NOT BE GOOD.

iblogulike

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Re: 50D & SX1 Replacements Next Week?
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2010, 10:36:55 PM »
Canon removed the new tag on a few of their cameras on the DSLR product page:  http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras

I think that new cameras will be unveiled shortly.

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Re: 50D & SX1 Replacements Next Week?
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2010, 10:36:55 PM »

c.d.embrey

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Re: 50D & SX1 Replacements Next Week?
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2010, 11:34:57 PM »
How would the market react on a 60D with 10mp?
Same resolution as the 40D but with the sensor-technology of the 5D II or 1D IV.
For example native max. ISO of 6400.
And also ISO 50 option.

Lots and lots of magazine covers have been shot with 12mp Nikons, I use my Canon 40D to shoot advertising. If Canon made a pro spec 12mp APS-C camera in a xxD body I'd by it!!!

From Fashion Photographer Benjamin Kanarek's blog  http://www.benjaminkanarekblog.com/2009/06/18/pixel-peeping-anal-about-number-pixels/  "In fact my last shoot I did with the Pentax K20D was over kill considering the size of the support i.e. about 8×10 inches. In fact I had to reduce the image size to get down to 300 dpi for Pre Press.  I would have been quite comfortable with a 8-10 mega pixel DSLR. The only grain I see when published with a 10 mega pixel camera in double page landscape format is the “tram” grain of the printing press of around 133 dpi."

Waleed Essam

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Re: 50D & SX1 Replacements Next Week?
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2010, 03:45:20 AM »
How would the market react on a 60D with 10mp?
Same resolution as the 40D but with the sensor-technology of the 5D II or 1D IV.
For example native max. ISO of 6400.
And also ISO 50 option.

And as mentioned in the previous post pixel-binning for anti-aliasing of video.

Hmm... 10 mpix will be too low for the market. They don't really need to lower the pixels that much. I'm sure they can keep it at 15-16 and still have a one stop hi-iso quality improvement over the 7D. Keep in mind the 7D is over a year old now, and I'm sure new technologies were implemented to decrease the noise even if they still keep it 18mpix. And if they want to make a new technology sensor.

Justin

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Re: 50D & SX1 Replacements Next Week?
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2010, 10:39:13 AM »
18 mpx folks. That's the current gen sensor. 60D will have more video features, maybe a "revolutionary" one. Lots of indies prefer using the 7D to the 5D2 because of the deeper depth of field.

unfocused

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Re: 50D & SX1 Replacements Next Week?
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2010, 06:13:03 PM »
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18 mpx folks. That's the current gen sensor.

Yes! Justin, thanks for adding some sanity to this discussion.
pictures sharp. life not so much. www.unfocusedmg.com

hoktar

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Re: 50D & SX1 Replacements Next Week?
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2010, 06:30:25 AM »
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18 mpx folks. That's the current gen sensor.

Yes! Justin, thanks for adding some sanity to this discussion.
Absolutely...
This mpix discussion is so ridiculous. What the hell do they expect, 18mpix is state of the art, why should they suddenly reduce it? And even more, why for the xxD which is a consumer/prosumer cam..
How can ppl. even think about that?

Besides there are way more ppl who want more mpix than  who want less.
(Thank God..)

@ release date, why are there alyways these funny dates (like August 11.), who believes that? By now it should be obvious for everyone that they announce the new cameras at photokina.

Jan

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Re: 50D & SX1 Replacements Next Week?
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2010, 09:09:56 AM »
@ release date, why are there alyways these funny dates (like August 11.), who believes that? By now it should be obvious for everyone that they announce the new cameras at photokina.
What is so funny about Augst 11th? :)

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Re: 50D & SX1 Replacements Next Week?
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2010, 09:09:56 AM »

Rocky

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Re: 50D & SX1 Replacements Next Week?
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2010, 12:24:47 PM »
Looks like the never ending "more Mp, less Mp" discussion has been started again and again. Both sides have a good argument.  It all boil down to "less Mp is for real photographers and More Mp is for Real technies" Given a choice, I really doubt that Canon will drop the MP. there is more technies than photographers. Also 'I am bigger than you" is always a good marketing tool. Just look at the fact: Canon has been teaming the 18-55mm lens with the 18Mp bodies. How much more mismatch can this be??? But they do sell like hot cakes and Canon is making a lot of money on it.

Grendel

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Re: 50D & SX1 Replacements Next Week?
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2010, 11:47:33 PM »
This mpix discussion is so ridiculous. What the hell do they expect, 18mpix is state of the art, why should they suddenly reduce it? And even more, why for the xxD which is a consumer/prosumer cam..
How can ppl. even think about that?
Why indeed. Same reason they reduced the G10 15MP state-of-the-art to 10MP in the G11 maybe ? Here's an interesting read for you.

Personally I love/hate the 18MP APS-C of my 7D (would be 46MP FF). Great resolution but only at 100 ISO (gets noisy fast at higher ISOs), mkII L glass (great sensor to image glass limits..), and f/6.3 or less (losing resolution fast at higher f's). If I need image quality I'm quick using my 5DII instead, 21MP are quite usable on FF (same density on APS-C would be 8MP !)

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Re: 50D & SX1 Replacements Next Week?
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2010, 11:47:33 PM »