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Author Topic: DxOMark scores for 5DMkIII out - total score 81, 5DMkII had 79  (Read 61164 times)

V8Beast

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Re: DX0 Mark Canon 5D MkIII Review
« Reply #165 on: April 19, 2012, 07:21:53 PM »
Someone on here said it best, "When all this hype has died down in two years 90% of pros will be shooting with the 5D3 over the D800, just like the 5D2 over and D700 and all Canon over Nikons"

I'm not sure if the figure will be 90%, but it's still a good point. According to DxO, the 5DII and 1DsIII are turds, but they dominated the studio scene for quite some time. I can see the D800 cutting into this advantage, but I still don't think the gap is big enough for many working pros to consider switching systems. Many of them have probably never even heard of DxO before.

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Re: DX0 Mark Canon 5D MkIII Review
« Reply #165 on: April 19, 2012, 07:21:53 PM »

elflord

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Re: DxOMark scores for 5DMkIII out - total score 81, 5DMkII had 79
« Reply #166 on: April 19, 2012, 07:22:04 PM »
DXO scores are only any good to DXO. Their testing methods are bunk tbh.
They scored the D800 higher than a IQ180, morons.

The overall score is an aggregate of high ISO, dynamic range and color depth. How well does the IQ180 perform at ISO 3200 ? Medium format cameras tend to lose on the high ISO portion of the test, so you can't really summarize the relative performance with one number. Thankfully, DXO explain how they get their numbers and publish the underlying measurements, so you can see how/why a camera scored a certain way. I suspect this complaining about MF cameras is a red herring -- people are upset that Canon's latest offering didn't score well on the test and are expressing their denial by insisting that the test must be wrong without even taking the trouble to look at the test results carefully.

In this case, the performance is pretty close. People here are wondering how Nikon could do better at "high ISO" -- actually they are neck and neck in SNR. Where Nikon wins is  in the dynamic range, especially at low ISOs. Nikons "low light ISO score" is probably largely due to the fact that its dynamic range tested better across the range,  and the "low light ISO score" uses dynamic range (at higher ISO) as part of the criteria.

I've got to say that I'm not the least bit surprised by the way this has played out. There's a standard pattern when a new product is released -- unrealistic expectations (e.g. improvement of 2 stops despite the fact that real increase in sensor performance has been very gradual) followed by inevitable disappointment, denial and rage when the hopes are dashed.


 

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: DxO results out for 5D3
« Reply #167 on: April 19, 2012, 07:25:26 PM »
Wow, whatever you want a result to be is the right answer I guess.... If you don't think 2+2=4 makes sense just find some book that says it = 8 and then that is your truth. Don't like evolution, just make something up that fits your belief. etc.



LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: DxO results out for 5D3
« Reply #168 on: April 19, 2012, 07:28:33 PM »

I can say with confidence that if DxO has ever published a correct DR measurement, it was by accident. Their DR results are dead wrong for every camera I'm familiar with and/or have tested (properly) with a transmission step wedge.


Funny then that when top engineers and physics guys, some world renowned, measure engineering DR they get results pretty darn in line with DxO....
 
Also funny is that many of you, if not you yourself, was saying that we were full of it and DxO was the end and be all and now that they say what we said suddenly they are a joke. Of course if they had found all aspects best on the 5D3 sensor then they would've been the perfect test site of course....
« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 07:39:10 PM by LetTheRightLensIn »

V8Beast

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Re: DxOMark scores for 5DMkIII out - total score 81, 5DMkII had 79
« Reply #169 on: April 19, 2012, 07:33:07 PM »
How many people here that are bashing DxO for the results would NOT be bashing their results had they come in higher than the D800?

Add me to the list. Yes, there's a lot of fanboyism in this thread, but I bash anything that encourages focusing on tech specs instead of using those tech specs in real life to produce stunning images and advance the art of photography. So, even if the 5DIII scored 95 and the D800 scored 81, I'd still place very little credence to DxO testing. Unless you're in the business of producing counterfeits, art is not created in a lab.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 07:52:48 PM by V8Beast »

neuroanatomist

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Re: DxOMark scores for 5DMkIII out - total score 81, 5DMkII had 79
« Reply #170 on: April 19, 2012, 07:36:46 PM »
Jeez....

It's like comparing supermodels....

oh my supermodel has perkier breasts than yours, oh my supermodel has more pouty lips than yours....

5 years from now your supermodel will look old and crinkly.
I've selected the 1D X as my supermodel. She's built like a svelte tank, and she'll be perky and pouty long after the 5DIII and D800 start to sag.  :P
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elflord

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Re: DX0 Mark Canon 5D MkIII Review
« Reply #171 on: April 19, 2012, 07:38:56 PM »
I'm not sure if the figure will be 90%, but it's still a good point. According to DxO, the 5DII and 1DsIII are turds,

Not quite -- they are neck and neck with the highest scoring sensors. Look at the numbers more closely and besides dynamic range at low (100-200) ISO, they do quite well.

Quote
but they dominated the studio scene for quite some time. I can see the D800 cutting into this advantage, but I still don't think the gap is big enough for many working pros to consider switching systems. Many of them have probably never even heard of DxO before.

If you wanted a high megapixel full frame camera, what were your choices ?



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Re: DX0 Mark Canon 5D MkIII Review
« Reply #171 on: April 19, 2012, 07:38:56 PM »

V8Beast

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Re: DxOMark scores for 5DMkIII out - total score 81, 5DMkII had 79
« Reply #172 on: April 19, 2012, 07:45:14 PM »
I chose a nice challenging, contrasty scene with a lot of bright sky and deep shadows. I used same focal length (obv. not the same lens) and same exposure (also corrected for white balance). I then processed in LR4 with the express intent of pulling as much detail from shadows and highlights. I could pull a lot more out of the highlights on the 5DM3 image and ended up with an image that was HDR-like, while the D7000 image still had a blown-out sky. The 5DM3 image also just flat-out looked better, color-wise and tonally (several family members agreed.) It feels like this DR business is not adequately describing what one might see in the real world. What am I missing??

I wish I could give you an answer. Experiences similar to the one you describe is why DxO doesn't have much credibility in my book. I'm not one of those conspiracy theorists that claims they have an anti-Canon bias. My problem is the concept of trying to judge image quality through standardized lab tests. Other than tech geeks that have yet to lose their virginity, who the hell does this in real life? 

V8Beast

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Re: DxOMark scores for 5DMkIII out - total score 81, 5DMkII had 79
« Reply #173 on: April 19, 2012, 07:51:19 PM »


I remember number of years ago when Nikon fanboys were in the same situation when DXOmark scores came out. Canon's rise in market share proved DXOmark right.  The opposite is happening now.  Nikon is gaining back its market share. The D3/D700 generation set the bench mark for ISO, and D800 has set the bench mark for IQ. 


That's assuming the only reason why Nikon gained back market share is due to DxO's clout. I seriously doubt that. Could it be that Nikon just offered better-balanced products? I considered buying a D700 over a 5DII because for my needs, it was a more well rounded machine. The 5DII's resolution advantage wasn't something I particularly needed, but I very much envied the AF system and FPS of the D700. You could make the same argument for the D3s when compared to the 1DIII and IDIV.

Fortunately, Canon decided a build a 5DIII that's more like a D700, and Nikon decided to build a D800 that's more like a 5DII. Now the grass is greener on my side. Thanks, Canon :)

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Re: DxO results out for 5D3
« Reply #174 on: April 19, 2012, 07:51:31 PM »
Dude, if a personal friend of yours took a personality test and did poorly because science says so based on various scientific values is their science more important than your experience with that person?
I'd wager your relationship and experience with them would trump their findings and you would say they are wack.
My camera and lens system is a relationship. Numbers don't give it value.
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Re: DxO results out for 5D3
« Reply #175 on: April 19, 2012, 07:55:28 PM »
Always been of the opinion that the DXO tests using RAW data are about as much use as test driving a car with no gearbox.

Process via DPP, or use JPEGS, then compare.  Unprocessed RAWs are about as real world as images of focus charts.

I stopped worrying about what DXO makes of my gear long ago, I find DPREVIEW and a few magazines more worthwhile as a guide.

I think that anybody buying or rejecting a camera on the basis of a DXO test needs their head felt.  Buy it because it fits your hand, rests well against your eye, does the job you need.  Not on the basis of unprocessed RAWs.

It's a good camera.  It'll take good pictures if you put a good lens on it and use it properly.

If you want precision then I can only assume you'll be using CZ lenses on whatever body you buy?


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Re: DxO results out for 5D3
« Reply #176 on: April 19, 2012, 08:24:01 PM »
Yawn.  (NO offense to the OP)

+1

This discussion was had a long time ago, many times over, and everyones positions are obviously still the same. I'm still adamant that the DR at ISO 100 and 200 is not the deciding factor in a camera purchase, and never will be (well, unless its like 2 stops worth...I might bitch and moan then...)

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Re: DxO results out for 5D3
« Reply #177 on: April 19, 2012, 08:37:20 PM »
Wow, whatever you want a result to be is the right answer I guess.... If you don't think 2+2=4 makes sense just find some book that says it = 8 and then that is your truth. Don't like evolution, just make something up that fits your belief. etc.

DxO has demonstrated a lot of bias with the D800 results and greater than physically possible DR numbers (for "print", as they call it...their "screen" DR numbers are still within the realm of reason and physical possibility). That, combined with the fact that numbers are only a small factor in a decision to buy a particular piece of gear, doesn't change anything, regardless of how DxO (one of many reviewers) rates the 5D III. Vested Canon users are still going to buy Canon. It'll be the same regarding the 1D X whenever DxO slaps up some numbers for that as well. The amount of effort you put into this thread is a little sad (you should seriously spend the time you would otherwise spend hitting the refresh button on DxO's site out photographing something somewhere). You were apparently just waiting for the day to prove, once and for all, that Canon cameras suck donkey balls and you were right and everyone else is just a raging buffoon idiotically using inferior cameras that are incapable of properly utilizing the bottom 3 bits of DR. Dude...you posted 7 times in a row trying to prove a point that doesn't really matter...lighten up man!  :o (Unless you have OCD or something that literally doesn't let you drop the issue...in which case, sorry for all the harassment.)

Bottom line:

Its a camera, it takes awesome photos with great IQ (just like the previous generation of all Canon cameras), millions of people will enjoy it and create fantastic artwork with it, millions more people will ENJOY the artwork created with the 5D III, and the world will keep on turning. Whether it beats the competition in a numbers game or not (especially one that seems more and more to be thoroughly biased in favor of a major sponsor and/or against a non-sponsor) is not what matters.

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Re: DxO results out for 5D3
« Reply #177 on: April 19, 2012, 08:37:20 PM »

marekjoz

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Re: DxOMark scores for 5DMkIII out - total score 81, 5DMkII had 79
« Reply #178 on: April 19, 2012, 08:44:21 PM »
Waiting for 5d3, we've been predicting it's price. As we have currently nothing to do except hating D..O and K..n R..ll and making pictures let's think how 1dx would score in d..o.

Looking at 5d3 results vs it's specification, we might predict 1dx'es final dxo scores and graphs presenting data in particular categories - more flat curves in SNR18, Dynamic Range and Tonal Range.

I'd predict it's:
- Portrait (color depth) =24
- Landscape (dynamic range) = 12
- Sports (low-Light ISO) = 2650
- Overall Score = 84

Craig, maybe in honour of d..o 5d3 tests some another contest - who predicts 1dx final score without even touching this camera? :)
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dichiaras

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Re: DX0 Mark Canon 5D MkIII Review
« Reply #179 on: April 19, 2012, 08:45:00 PM »
Someone on here said it best, "When all this hype has died down in two years 90% of pros will be shooting with the 5D3 over the D800, just like the 5D2 over and D700 and all Canon over Nikons"

Looking at the Amazon best seller list I predict you'll be very likely wrong:

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Digital-SLR-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/3017941/ref=pd_ts_zgc_e_3017941_morl?pf_rd_p=1270018122&pf_rd_s=right-5&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=507846&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0JABKZ0CEFB8XTBV2D7S

Nikon occupied the first three spots for the past month and a half (since the D800 come out), and now with the D3200 also the 4th is gone.

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Re: DX0 Mark Canon 5D MkIII Review
« Reply #179 on: April 19, 2012, 08:45:00 PM »